June 22, 20233 yr 18 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: And at 21 weeks "viable" means "with a lot of medical intervention they may survive" That's not medical intervention, it's God. Unless the baby dies, then that's the devil.
June 22, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, Mike31mt said: Where did I say "to the state?" You said women cede control of their bodies when they have sex so it’s fine for the state to step in and make their medical decisions for them. And if that’s your opinion so be it but if you think women are getting on board with that then you’re out of your mind. You can blame the media if it helps you cope but it’s unpopular because most Americans aren’t interested in the kind of state control you’re after.
June 22, 20233 yr 10 hours ago, Mike31mt said: Dont deny science, now You think science is on your side here?
June 24, 20233 yr On 6/21/2023 at 3:52 PM, vikas83 said: I personally believe abortion is murder, but I don't think my morality should dictate the law. I was fine with the concept of Roe v. Wade by trying to find a point of viability, and I guess I would be OK with a federal law that banned non-medically necessary abortions after a certain point. That point should be debated by doctors and scientists and be guided by a simple question -- based on today's medical technology, what is the point at which the fetus becomes viable and can survive independent of the mother? After that, no elective abortions. I see the argument for letting states decide -- relying on the 10th Amendment. I agree with the Equal Protection argument on gay marriage -- since the IRS provides tax benefits to married couples, it's a violation of the 14th Amendment to deny same sex marriage in some states but not others. It's a little less obvious on abortion to me. One would think the market would actually dictate this, but there is a limit to personal mobility. Basically, I'm not super worked up either way. My general view of Roe was if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Walter Block compromise… That’s the scientific solution, but it still wouldn’t be acceptable to either side. The right sees murder as murder, even if it’s convenient, and the left doesn’t care about life, even if it’s not an inconvenience.
June 24, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, TEW said: The Walter Block compromise… That’s the scientific solution, but it still wouldn’t be acceptable to either side. The right sees murder as murder, even if it’s convenient, and the left doesn’t care about life, even if it’s not an inconvenience. It really is amazing to watch you pretend you believe this.
June 28, 20233 yr On 6/24/2023 at 6:11 AM, Toastrel said: It really is amazing to watch you pretend you believe this. The give away is in the end game. Eventually technology will allow a newly conceived child to be brought to maturation outside the womb, meaning that abortion would be banned. The left won’t stand for it.
June 28, 20233 yr 7 hours ago, TEW said: The give away is in the end game. Eventually technology will allow a newly conceived child to be brought to maturation outside the womb, meaning that abortion would be banned. The left won’t stand for it. The give away is in your blinders that only see bad in one direction. Frankly, despite your obvious education, you seem like rube.
June 28, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, Toastrel said: The give away is in your blinders that only see bad in one direction. Frankly, despite your obvious "education", you seem like rube. fyp 90th percentile!
June 28, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, Toastrel said: The give away is in your blinders that only see bad in one direction. Frankly, despite your obvious education, you seem like rube. Yeah only bad in one direction--ending a human life vs. parents/a woman having to live with the consequences of their actions. TEW is right. Most of you hide in the "viability" argument which is just an arbitrary timeline based not on principle but on the available scientific technology at the time. It just stands to reason that as technology advances, the "viability" issue will be rendered moot and you all will have to truly confront the issue from a moral perspective.
June 28, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, Mike31mt said: Yeah only bad in one direction--ending a human life vs. parents/a woman having to live with the consequences of their actions. TEW is right. Most of you hide in the "viability" argument which is just an arbitrary timeline based not on principle but on the available scientific technology at the time. It just stands to reason that as technology advances, the "viability" issue will be rendered moot and you all will have to truly confront the issue from a moral perspective. I agree the point of viability has clearly moved over time given medical advances, and if we ever get to the point where the consensus is that a fetus is viable from conception, then we'd reach a point of effectively outlawed abortion. I have no issue with that, so long as there were exceptions for rape/incest/life of the mother.
June 28, 20233 yr 4 hours ago, Mike31mt said: Yeah only bad in one direction--ending a human life vs. parents/a woman having to live with the consequences of their actions. TEW is right. Most of you hide in the "viability" argument which is just an arbitrary timeline based not on principle but on the available scientific technology at the time. It just stands to reason that as technology advances, the "viability" issue will be rendered moot and you all will have to truly confront the issue from a moral perspective. Why ask people what they think, when it is so easy to argue against points you make you? Tell me, when did you stop beating your dog? It is wrong, and you should know that.
July 6, 20233 yr 1 minute ago, toolg said: Hospitals are shutting down OB services So the babies will be trapped inside forever?
July 6, 20233 yr 10 minutes ago, toolg said: Hospitals are shutting down OB services Why do the dishonest tell such easily debunked lies? Because the simple will always fall for it Quote "Since moving to the area six years ago, I have grown to care deeply for this community and for my patients,” Dr. Agrawal said. "My top priority — and the priority of Saint Luke’s — is to provide safe, compassionate, quality care for the women of North Central Missouri. I look forward to continuing to serve in this new capacity.” Once the model takes effect, inpatient maternity services will close, and routine deliveries will cease at Hedrick Medical Center. This action will affect approximately 15 labor and delivery nurses and ancillary staff, all of whom will be eligible and encouraged to apply for alternate positions at Hedrick Medical Center, Wright Memorial Hospital, or within Saint Luke’s Health System. A nationwide shortage of OB-GYNs has created a highly competitive market for qualified specialists, making it extremely difficult to attract OB-GYNs to rural areas such as Chillicothe, despite dedicated, multi-year recruitment efforts. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists projects a shortage of 22,000 OB-GYNs by 2050.
July 6, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, toolg said: Hospitals are shutting down OB services What does this have to do with Roe v Wade? This is called "mis-information". Our friend Ms. Piper here would want you to believe that the reason Hedrick Medical Center is closing down its Maternity Unit is due to the hospital not wanting to face the "liability" of dealing with an emergency situation where the mother's life is in jeopardy and a choice has to be made between saving the mother's life or the baby's. And so Hedrick is choosing to shift that liability off to another hospital. If she had spent literally 1 minute of due diligence, she would have learned that Hedrick and North are part of the same hospital system, Saint Luke's. So with regards to liability, it doesn't matter where the services are taking place, it's all under the same parent owner. If she would have spent 2 minutes of due diligence, she would have learned that providing OB care in a regional model has been an ongoing trend in rural areas in as hospitals are closing and health systems are doing their best to ensure they can still serve their patients. And if she would have spent 3 minutes of due diligence, she would have learned that in 2016, this SAME EXACT SITUATION happened in which Hedrick Medical Center became the receiver of additional patients when Wright Memorial Hospital closed its Maternity ward.
July 6, 20233 yr Gotta imagine that nation-wide shortage of OB-GYNs won't be getting better anytime soon when the risk of legal liability is at an all-time high in states where they'll have to prove a miscarriage or non-viable pregnancy wasn't an abortion.
July 6, 20233 yr It's not outlandish to link abortion and closures: https://www.today.com/parents/pregnancy/idahos-bonner-general-hospital-closes-maternity-ward-rcna75776 But it's a complicated issue and tightly linked to both lack of demand in rural areas and low medicaid reimbursement rates (incidentally also correlated with red states, but I digress) Worth noting that 42% of births are paid out of Medicaid.
July 7, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said: Gotta imagine that nation-wide shortage of OB-GYNs won't be getting better anytime soon when the risk of legal liability is at an all-time high in states where they'll have to prove a miscarriage or non-viable pregnancy wasn't an abortion. Oh sure, it can certainly hurt staffing. Physicians may choose to leave those states and work in other states where there isn’t such an adverse environment towards them. But the situation cited in the tweet really isn’t related to Roe v Wade.
July 7, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said: What does this have to do with Roe v Wade? Because their work is being attacked by extremist politicians, and they are at risk of facing penalties for doing their job. Why decide to go to school to become OB-GYN when you can choose another specialty that isn’t being attacked? Btw. St. Luke’s is 90 minutes drive from Hedrick Medical Center. Makes a difference for the women in that community
July 7, 20233 yr It's not just rural areas. Even the major hub hospital systems are having a hard time adequately staffing delivery centers nowadays. It was already a fairly strenuous gig and one of the more sued specialties so that's not completely new but this BS certainly didn't help. And it won't take a massive percentage of lost work force to dangerously strain the system. Maternal/fetal death rates have been rising for years in the US (even if you treat the 2021 spike as a bit of an aboration). I expect that to continue.
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