October 25, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: It took you over 2 months and youre still egregiously wrong because youre a deranged leftist trying to deny life itself. If an embryo isnt a person, what is it? A dog? Youre literally making up random ish and denying basic scientific facts because of your delusional political beliefs. Life begins at conception is literally a medical and scientific fact you disgusting ghoul. If I serve you an omlet would you call it a chicken dinner?
October 25, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, Gannan said: If I serve you an omlet would you call it a chicken dinner? Lol you liberals are absolutely wild Its still a chicken egg, isnt it? You people are literally insane and denying basic scientific fact. Its a human life. Period.
October 25, 20232 yr 31 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: It took you over 2 months and youre still egregiously wrong because youre a deranged leftist trying to deny life itself. If an embryo isnt a person, what is it? A dog? Youre literally making up random ish and denying basic scientific facts because of your delusional political beliefs. Life begins at conception is literally a medical and scientific fact you disgusting ghoul. So if an embryo is a person, then are IVF clinics murdering hundreds of thousands of people every year?
October 25, 20232 yr 15 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: So if an embryo is a person, then are IVF clinics murdering hundreds of thousands of people every year? We've gone over this already and this doesnt absolve you all of the fact that this is a human life Its a human life. Do you disagree? Just because I cant solve all of the moral issues related to stem cell treatment doesnt deny scientific fact. So be a brave little boy and tell me, is it a human life or not?
October 25, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: We've gone over this already and this doesnt absolve you all of the fact that this is a human life Its a human life. Do you disagree? Just because I cant solve all of the moral issues related to stem cell treatment doesnt deny scientific fact. So be a brave little boy and tell me, is it a human life or not? So, then you agree that IVF clicincs kill hundreds of thousands of people every year, have I got that right?
October 25, 20232 yr 36 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: We've gone over this already and this doesnt absolve you all of the fact that this is a human life Its a human life. Do you disagree? Just because I cant solve all of the moral issues related to stem cell treatment doesnt deny scientific fact. So be a brave little boy and tell me, is it a human life or not? A human embryo is human. A dog embryo is a dog. Life doesn't begin at conception because the sperm and egg were already alive.
October 25, 20232 yr 36 minutes ago, toolg said: A human embryo is human. A dog embryo is a dog. Life doesn't begin at conception because the sperm and egg were already alive. *Human* life begins at conception
October 27, 20232 yr On 10/25/2023 at 5:03 PM, Mike31mt said: *Human* life begins at conception A religious concept of the past century. Not in the bible, for example, which is quite clear about drawing the breath of life.
October 27, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, Toastrel said: A religious concept of the past century. Not in the bible, for example, which is quite clear about drawing the breath of life. Youre confused again, old man. This is a scientific concept and it is an absolute fact. Keep denying human life, though.
October 27, 20232 yr On 10/25/2023 at 3:57 PM, we_gotta_believe said: So, then you agree that IVF clicincs kill hundreds of thousands of people every year, have I got that right? We already discussed this and youre only deflecting because you have a psychotic need for attention and lack the skills necessary to carry on an adult conversation
October 27, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Youre confused again, old man. This is a scientific concept and it is an absolute fact. Keep denying human life, though. You can pretend anything you like. I don't deny life, I deny you using science as any basis for argument. You seem starkly unqualified to speak on the subject.
October 27, 20232 yr 19 minutes ago, Toastrel said: You can pretend anything you like. I don't deny life, I deny you using science as any basis for argument. You seem starkly unqualified to speak on the subject. So then it should be very easy to point out the scientific basis of your argument. You cant though, because human life starts at conception and thats literally why we call it "conception"
October 27, 20232 yr On 8/9/2023 at 3:10 PM, we_gotta_believe said: IVF clinics dispose of embryos all the time, you absolute moron. They would not be able to operate if doing so was considered murder. Late to the party but it doesn't look like it was brought up..... Embryo adoption is a thing.
October 27, 20232 yr On 8/9/2023 at 3:30 PM, Phillyterp85 said: I already explained that. It has relevance to your stance that life begins at conception. If the law states that life begins at conception, then IVF goes out the window. "Life begins at conception" means that the second that conception happens, then legally that embryo is treated as a human being and all the same rights a person has gets applied to it. Well..... 1) Last I checked, you can't put a human being in a freezer 2) this would require that every single viable embryo that is created must then be implanted. This would obviously be in-feasible. So like I said, having the stance that life begins at conception would lead to a slippery slope that actually would lead to anti-life results. "Stem cell research is incredibly important but doesnt justify abortion on its own merit, IMO. " Again, I'm not talking about abortion. I'm talking about "life begins at conception" stance. Incorrect. In fact, when you meet with your fertility clinic, you have a conversation if you want to transfer fresh vs frozen embryos.
October 27, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: So then it should be very easy to point out the scientific basis of your argument. You cant though, because human life starts at conception and thats literally why we call it "conception" It’s not a question of whether it’s a potential human life or not, it is a question of whether it’s protected life. How far down the slippery slope do want to go in giving an embryo rights? Should parents be able to claim them on their taxes? Can we get life insurance for an embryo?
October 27, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, paco said: Incorrect. In fact, when you meet with your fertility clinic, you have a conversation if you want to transfer fresh vs frozen embryos. I believe he is saying that is the difference between a human and an embryo.
October 27, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: I believe he is saying that is the difference between a human and an embryo. Perhaps I read it wrong. I took this: Quote "Life begins at conception" means that the second that conception happens, then legally that embryo is treated as a human being and all the same rights a person has gets applied to it. Well..... 1) Last I checked, you can't put a human being in a freezer To mean that because its now a fertilized it's a human and therefore can't be frozen. But I see your point, he could be saying you can't put a fetus in a freezer and have it viable when unfrozen. But this further throws me off then: Quote 2) this would require that every single viable embryo that is created must then be implanted. This would obviously be in-feasible. The combination of both made me think he believed embryos can't be frozen. Anyway, I would argue, no, you can still freeze them. IVF clinics do offer embryo adoption. Now, I'm not pretending that is a great solution, you are still going to have WAY more embryos than people are willing to adopt. But in theory you could put additional checks in place. During egg retrieval freeze the majority and only fertilize a few and see how many viable ones you get. If 0, then do again, otherwise implant the viable ones. Not ideal and more expensive to the patient but it could be a work around. Also from personal experience, you would be surprised how few in a batch are viable. If you get 6 eggs and 2-3 are viable, you did good and any more you hit a home run. Then again, it could just be my old skeet.
October 27, 20232 yr 6 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: It’s not a question of whether it’s a potential human life or not, it is a question of whether it’s protected life. How far down the slippery slope do want to go in giving an embryo rights? Should parents be able to claim them on their taxes? Can we get life insurance for an embryo? As a society we should strive to protect all human life. The slippery slope question should be posed to the pro-choice folks, not me. Theyre the ones debating at what point they can end a human life and not feel too bad about it.
October 27, 20232 yr They froze Austin Powers didnt they? Kidding aside, these are ancillary issues that will inevitably be solved by medical advances. The moral question of abortion will get harder and harder for pro-choicers over time as their ability to use the "viability" argument decreases.
October 27, 20232 yr 15 minutes ago, paco said: Incorrect. In fact, when you meet with your fertility clinic, you have a conversation if you want to transfer fresh vs frozen embryos. Yes I know, we just went through the IVF process. We had 3 embryos. And we did pre-implantation screening to screen out a genetic mutation that runs in our family. So we transferred the one embryo that didn’t have the mutation. Under a "life begins at conception” law, we would not have been able to do this, as we would have been forced to transfer all 3 embryos or put them through the IVF "adoption” process. Ultimately, all 3 of those embryos would have to be eventually transferred. Another friend of mine also went through IVF, they had 6 embryos. They transferred one and that’s all they’re doing. Under a "life begins at conception” law, those other 5 embryos would ultimately have to be transferred.
October 27, 20232 yr The Pro Life crowd. Now that's really Ironic. They only care about it when it's unborn. After it's born, they aren't pro life. They want to cut the child's health insurance, take away school lunch, cut education funding, make prescriptions even more costly, fail to protect them from school gun mass shootings, take away their parents Social Security, Medicare and food stamps. How Christian of them. Not to mention 90 percent of abortions occur within the first 13 weeks, but they only talk about babies that are half way out and whether you support abortion then.
October 27, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: Yes I know, we just went through the IVF process. We had 3 embryos. And we did pre-implantation screening to screen out a genetic mutation that runs in our family. So we transferred the one embryo that didn’t have the mutation. Under a "life begins at conception” law, we would not have been able to do this, as we would have been forced to transfer all 3 embryos. Another friend of mine also went through IVF, they had 6 embryos. They transferred one and that’s all they’re doing. Under a "life begins at conception” law, they would be forced to transfer all 6. Yup, I get it. I just noticed that it wasn't brought up as an option. Also, good luck. IVF is hell. Feel free to hit me up if you need to, even if it's "Wifey is a psycho on all the hormones and I'm afraid there's going to be a murder-suicide.... just not sure which way"
October 27, 20232 yr 28 minutes ago, paco said: Yup, I get it. I just noticed that it wasn't brought up as an option. Also, good luck. IVF is hell. Feel free to hit me up if you need to, even if it's "Wifey is a psycho on all the hormones and I'm afraid there's going to be a murder-suicide.... just not sure which way" Thank you!! LOL yes it definitely was rough and an emotional toll, but our daughter was born last Monday so we are very fortunate and blessed!
October 27, 20232 yr 48 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: They froze Austin Powers didnt they? Kidding aside, these are ancillary issues that will inevitably be solved by medical advances. The moral question of abortion will get harder and harder for pro-choicers over time as their ability to use the "viability" argument decreases. Maybe if the pro-life crowd continued to be pro-life AFTER the birth?
October 27, 20232 yr 47 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: Thank you!! LOL yes it definitely was rough and an emotional toll, but our daughter was born last Monday so we are very fortunate and blessed! I don't think I knew that. Congrats!!!!! Feel free to brag in The Nest thread
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