21 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Chad Pennington was an extremely accurate QB and he had an infamously weak arm.  Kurt Warner was a surgeon with is accuracy but while he by no means had a weak arm he also didn't have an elite level of arm strength either.  Drew Brees as well, especially late career.  

 

Also for Hurts, that 25 yards with zip and accuracy.  I remember the Hurts to Goedert TD in W1 last year (video below).  He threw that at around the 16 yard line and Goedert catches it 5 yards deep into the endzone.  Not 25 yards but that was a 21 yard pass with zip and accuracy in a very tight window.  

 

 

Of course there are exceptions. Warner is a great one. Pennington is overrated. The most TDs he's thrown in a year is 22, the rest are sub-20. He was a check down QB who avoided the big mistakes. He had enough accuracy to make some good reads underneath, but not enough skill overall as a passer (arm strength and accuracy) to throw the ball into the intermediate and medium-deep parts of the build with accuracy.

I think some people view arm strength and accuracy as two totally different sliding scales. It all comes from your mechanics as a thrower. The more skilled that motion is the better you'll be in both areas. It's like a golfer driving the ball. The best drivers have the power to drive the ball far, but also the control to put it where they want it.

The discussion isn't worth it.

We'll know in a few weeks whether Hurts is improved as a passer, since Sirianni wants to pass more this year and has the skill people to do so (Brown and Pascal are huge upgrades).

Fighting over exactly what last season portends is a waste of time, since the assumption is he's not going to improve - which can only be proven or disproven by the actual games this year.

And a lot will be dictated by the defense - if it's a top ten defense, the offense will be more ball control, wearing team down - if the defense can't slow down good QBs again, the offense will have to open up.

1 minute ago, jsb235 said:

Pfr disagrees with your math. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe contact a lawyer? 

You really are an idiot.

I took the stats from PFR, added them up for the 3 weeks, put them into PFR's passer rating calculator, and got the total for the 3 week stretch. 

But lets take this one step at a time.

Do you agree these are the exact stats for these games, and that the totals at the bottom are correct ??

 

 

Just now, schuy7 said:

Of course there are exceptions. Warner is a great one. Pennington is overrated. The most TDs he's thrown in a year is 22, the rest are sub-20. He was a check down QB who avoided the big mistakes. He had enough accuracy to make some good reads underneath, but not enough skill overall as a passer (arm strength and accuracy) to throw the ball into the intermediate and medium-deep parts of the build with accuracy.

I think some people view arm strength and accuracy as two totally different sliding scales. It all comes from your mechanics as a thrower. The more skilled that motion is the better you'll be in both areas. It's like a golfer driving the ball. The most accurate drivers also have the power to drive the ball far, but the control to put it where they want it.

 

I have seen Jalen Hurts have good ball placement on throws.  I've seen him do and I've seen him do it at an increased rate from his rookie year to year two.  It's just the consistency of him doing it.  I think we are going to see another improvement in his consistency at having good ball placement with this throws and I think with the talent on this offense that this offense is going to be successful and that is only going to breed and build confidence for Hurts so I think there is a chance we see a season this year that will statistically be one of the more impressive seasons that an Eagles season has had.  

Just now, downundermike said:

You really are an idiot.

But lets take this one step at a time.

Again, you aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with pfr. Maybe call them and see if they have a complaints department? 

The site clearly lists the rating for Hurts on a per game basis. I gave you those figures. If you want to debate those numbers with pfr, have at it. But my guess is that you are the one who missed something, not them.

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I have seen Jalen Hurts have good ball placement on throws.  I've seen him do and I've seen him do it at an increased rate from his rookie year to year two.  It's just the consistency of him doing it.  I think we are going to see another improvement in his consistency at having good ball placement with this throws and I think with the talent on this offense that this offense is going to be successful and that is only going to breed and build confidence for Hurts so I think there is a chance we see a season this year that will statistically be one of the more impressive seasons that an Eagles season has had.  

Uh huh. You and I hope so.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

The RPO is a one read/run decision, because the OL are run blocking and will be upfield if you try to find a second read.

C’mon, AFan, you can’t expect folks looking at WRs that seem wide open to check to see if any of the OL are past the LOS or if any other eligible receivers are engaging blocks that would result in a penalty if the ball is passed.  That invalidates the argument that Hurts can’t read.  (Nonsense).  Read well and quickly has been an issue that can’t be refuted although they seem to have been working on that.  Now that is an issue in the RPO.  I think it was mentioned the other day, 1, 2 and throw on 3. 

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The discussion isn't worth it.

We'll know in a few weeks whether Hurts is improved as a passer, since Sirianni wants to pass more this year and has the skill people to do so (Brown and Pascal are huge upgrades).

Fighting over exactly what last season portends is a waste of time, since the assumption is he's not going to improve - which can only be proven or disproven by the actual games this year.

And a lot will be dictated by the defense - if it's a top ten defense, the offense will be more ball control, wearing team down - if the defense can't slow down good QBs again, the offense will have to open up.

That was said last offseason as well when people questioned his passing before

54 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

87.1 rating first 8 games ( would rank 22nd overall)

84.0 rating last 8 games ( would rank 27th overall)

 

These are facts. Where was the improvement as the season went on?

We’re 7-1 in practices. 

Just now, jsb235 said:

Again, you aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with pfr. Maybe call them and see if they have a complaints department? 

The site clearly lists the rating for Hurts on a per game basis. I gave you those figures. If you want to debate those numbers with pfr, have at it. But my guess is that you are the one who missed something, not them.

No, I am arguing with you using the facts from PFR.  You are trying to use the week end QBR, combine and create an average.  That is not how it works.

If you take the average of the last 3 weeks, 90.9, 102.5 and 110.4, it  is 101.27.  But that is not the way it works, you have to combine all the stats to get the 3 week QB rating, which is 97.77.

Good news is, if you take the average of DET, LAC and DEN 103.2, 115.3, 86.3, you get 101.6.  Even though it is wrong as the actual rating is 102.62, the average is still higher.

You are 100% wrong, and you can not provide any facts to prove otherwise.

Facts, the stretch that you referenced as the highest in QB rating is actually 3rd.

So once again, tell me which of these stats that are used to calculate QB rating are wrong ??

 

11 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:I consider the Super Bowl as the goal for every franchise.  I want more than 17 weeks of meaningful football for my team every year.  I'm selfish like that.  I watch all the playoff games every year, but not with the same fervor or interest.  I too want to be entertained.  I want to be entertained by my team into January, and hopefully, into February as well.  A 6 win season is never as entertaining as a playoff run.  A 9 win season with a first round bow-out, or an embarrassment at the end, as we experienced this past year leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the entire offseason.  Had this team been at least competitive in that final game, it would have been more palatable and helped me get excited for this upcoming season.

I would replace the word "goal” with "aspiration.”  Setting goals that are almost 100% guaranteed to end in failure is unrealistic in my opinion.  I want to set goals that can/will produce opportunities for celebration more than 75% of the time. I don’t want to create a culture of failure.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Fact.  He finished bottom 3rd in the league in most passing categories.  
 

Also Fact.  That doesn’t make him average.  
 

Also Fact.  Your ship has sailed.  

Can you believe this @jsb235 guy, burying him with facts from the site he keeps referencing, and he is saying I am wrong by using their facts.

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

And which aspects was he above average ??

Again you are going granular.  

52 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The argument is - the NFL has Hurts figured out based on the playoff game and the last five games of the season.

My counter is that, if this was true, his best three-game stretch in terms of passer rating wouldn't have been in the last three games of the season.

That's the argument. If you want to look at only completion percentage as a measure of qb play, that's fine. But you are being misleading because that's not the best measure of qb play. Passer rating is much better, a stat you yourself quoted. And if his season rating was 87, and his last three games were well above 87, the idea that the league figured him out seems foolish based on evidence.

You can narrow the argument down to whatever. It doesn't change the fact Hurts's passer rating as a whole is well below league average. His passer rating from his last 8 games is lower than his first 8 games. His last game of the season, his passer rating was 60. Well below his average of 87.

Keep believing the Earth is flat.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

Again you are going granular.  

So you have nothing, got it.

Either tell us something he is above average at or go away.

5 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I would replace the word "goal” with "aspiration.”  Setting goals that are almost 100% guaranteed to end in failure is unrealistic in my opinion.  I want to set goals that can/will produce opportunities for celebration more than 75% of the time. I don’t want to create a culture of failure.

Use whatever term you want... but, what I said was it was the goal for the franchise to win a Super Bowl.  If the goal of a franchise isn't to win the Super Bowl, then they are in the wrong business... or are just trying to make money at the expense of the fans.  

As a fan, there is the goal to enjoy the 3 hours that a single game takes.  And there is the goal of the team moving towards the ultimate goal of the sport.

Your approach, I guess, would help you find satisfaction as a Lions' fan.  Good for you.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I consider the Super Bowl as the goal for every franchise.  I want more than 17 weeks of meaningful football for my team every year.  I'm selfish like that.  I watch all the playoff games every year, but not with the same fervor or interest.  I too want to be entertained.  I want to be entertained by my team into January, and hopefully, into February as well.  A 6 win season is never as entertaining as a playoff run.  A 9 win season with a first round bow-out, or an embarrassment at the end, as we experienced this past year leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the entire offseason.  Had this team been at least competitive in that final game, it would have been more palatable and helped me get excited for this upcoming season.

I would replace the word "goal” with "aspiration.”  Setting goals that are almost 100% guaranteed to end in failure is unrealistic in my opinion.  I want to set goals that can/will produce opportunities for celebration more than 75% of the time. I don’t want to create a culture of failure

10 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I would replace the word "goal” with "aspiration.”  Setting goals that are almost 100% guaranteed to end in failure is unrealistic in my opinion.  I want to set goals that can/will produce opportunities for celebration more than 75% of the time. I don’t want to create a culture of failure

31 teams fall short of their goal ever year

Is Reagor still a lock because of his draft spot or is he finally fighting for a roster spot tonight?

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Use whatever term you want... but, what I said was it was the goal for the franchise to win a Super Bowl.  If the goal of a franchise isn't to win the Super Bowl, then they are in the wrong business... or are just trying to make money at the expense of the fans.  

As a fan, there is the goal to enjoy the 3 hours that a single game takes.  And there is the goal of the team moving towards the ultimate goal of the sport.

Your approach, I guess, would help you find satisfaction as a Lions' fan.  Good for you.

I am a fan first and foremost of football as an entertaining game.  The teams playing the game are irrelevant.  In essence your Super Bowl goal of the two respective teams are offsetting, and therefore irrelevant to my enjoyment of the play.

I also don’t find the final score anywhere near as entertaining as the individual plays with all their nuances.  As was pointed out in one of the analytical videos this past week, the Eagles ran the exact same play three snaps in a row and succeeded all three times.  Seeing things like that is thrilling.

With that said the pass play examples you gave were indeed excellent.  I would add the right sideline TD pass to Clement agains (if I remember correctly) Washington.  But Barry Sanders was a human highlight reel, and many of his best runs had multiple shivers, not just one.  Pass plays rarely give multiple such shiver moments.

I realize that is my bias talking though.

20 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

That guys not worth my time.  MattWill isn’t either really.  But it’s nice to see that others realized how delusional MattWill is.  I’ve been there for 5 years.  

Big time. Arrogant as well.

17 minutes ago, downundermike said:

So you have nothing, got it.

Either tell us something he is above average at or go away.

I can’t go away.  I am a pillar.

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

See my post above where I provided the facts that Jalen Hurts is  average Based on him ranking 16th or lower in most quarterback statistical passing categories

That fact has nothing to do with the question posed, which was "Give me an example of a conflicting viewpoint backed up by data that you feel that justrelax has ignored. ”

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

That fact has nothing to do with the question posed, which was "Give me an example of a conflicting viewpoint backed up by data that you feel that justrelax has ignored. ”

I have one, need to get on PC to find it.

In the meantime, 1 thing, anything that Hurts is above average at as a QB.