33 minutes ago, Infam said:

I think he's still a very good third round pick. Not a starter but very much a good player with good value.

Very good third round picks are starters in the NFL.  If starters only come from 1st and 2nd round picks, then you don't have enough starters to fill out your roster.

As a rotational piece, Williams is decent at best.  But you look for more than that eventually from Round 3... or at least I do, before declaring it a very good pick.

For reference... Brian Westbrook was a great 3rd round pick to me.  I'd also say that Seumalo was a very good 3rd round pick.  Williams is a meh 3rd round pick.  He'll need to do more to become a good pick, let alone very good.

35 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Very good third round picks are starters in the NFL.  If starters only come from 1st and 2nd round picks, then you don't have enough starters to fill out your roster.

As a rotational piece, Williams is decent at best.  But you look for more than that eventually from Round 3... or at least I do, before declaring it a very good pick.

For reference... Brian Westbrook was a great 3rd round pick to me.  I'd also say that Seumalo was a very good 3rd round pick.  Williams is a meh 3rd round pick.  He'll need to do more to become a good pick, let alone very good.

Didn't claim he is the best third round pick ever, but I value a third a lot less than you do apparently. I think the production from the get-go at the price he is playing at makes this a very good pick already.  

39 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Very good third round picks are starters in the NFL.  If starters only come from 1st and 2nd round picks, then you don't have enough starters to fill out your roster.

As a rotational piece, Williams is decent at best.  But you look for more than that eventually from Round 3... or at least I do, before declaring it a very good pick.

For reference... Brian Westbrook was a great 3rd round pick to me.  I'd also say that Seumalo was a very good 3rd round pick.  Williams is a meh 3rd round pick.  He'll need to do more to become a good pick, let alone very good.

Foles

…

Milton

…

Bryan Smith

1 minute ago, Infam said:

Didn't claim he is the best third round pick ever, but I value a third a lot less than you do apparently. I think the production from the get-go at the price he is playing at makes this a very good pick already.  

Nor did I say that you did.  

Very good is a high superlative... which means much higher than 'average' production for that pick.   He's been better than Davion Taylor.   But that's not a high bar to clear.

For Williams to be a 'very good' pick, he's going to have to raise his game significantly in the next 2.5 seasons.  Right now he's not giving me any reason to resign him over any other FA to replace him or even look to find a replacement for him as early as this offseason.  And to me, that's not 'very good'. 

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

Not sure if this has really been talked about, but Milton Williams isn't all that great. Not terrible, just kinda meh. We definitely need some DL in this draft.

Go back a few pages and check out my posts on the Eagles drafting of DL and defensive players.  Williams is a bust at this point IMO.  Need more out of him.

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

Not sure if this has really been talked about, but Milton Williams isn't all that great. Not terrible, just kinda meh. We definitely need some DL in this draft.

I think he’s mis-used.  Our starting DTs are not good against the run and Davis is out.  Williams should be a pure pass rush, explode off the line DT mixed with edge rush opportunities.  Instead, he’s plugging holes in the run game.  
 

There is a discrepancy between what everyone knew his upside and fit would be and how he’s being used.

3rd round picks are also the trickiest ones.

4th round picks really have minimal expectations.  2nd round picks may bust, but you are drafting guys you project as starters.  
 

Once you hit the 3rd round, you are at the fringe overlap between having a diluted talent pool with still having expectations.  
 

You can’t expect a given 3rd round pick to start.  (I’m sure someone has the % on that).  I think the goal is that, over time, a spread of 5 third round picks includes a big hit starter, maybe another decent starter, a decent backup, and a couple total busts.

Dean & Milton Williams (still too early), Davion Taylor, Rasul Douglas, and Seumalo are Howie’s only 3rd round picks since taking over for Chip.  About a mixed bag as one might expect.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think he’s mis-used.  Our starting DTs are not good against the run and Davis is out.  Williams should be a pure pass rush, explode off the line DT mixed with edge rush opportunities.  Instead, he’s plugging holes in the run game.  
 

There is a discrepancy between what everyone knew his upside and fit would be and how he’s being used.

Also been saying this. 

The level of play from our d-line has gone down ever since we got rid of Joe Ostman. 

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think he’s mis-used.  Our starting DTs are not good against the run and Davis is out.  Williams should be a pure pass rush, explode off the line DT mixed with edge rush opportunities.  Instead, he’s plugging holes in the run game.  
 

There is a discrepancy between what everyone knew his upside and fit would be and how he’s being used.

Of course, that then speaks to the lack of clear communication between the scouting department/Howie and the coaching staff... doesn't it?

Seems we like to bring in a lot of defensive players that are asked to play in a way that's not conducive to their skill sets.  

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

3rd round picks are also the trickiest ones.

4th round picks really have minimal expectations.  2nd round picks may bust, but you are drafting guys you project as starters.  
 

Once you hit the 3rd round, you are at the fringe overlap between having a diluted talent pool with still having expectations.  
 

You can’t expect a given 3rd round pick to start.  (I’m sure someone has the % on that).  I think the goal is that, over time, a spread of 5 third round picks includes a big hit starter, maybe another decent starter, a decent backup, and a couple total busts.

Dean & Milton Williams (still too early), Davion Taylor, Rasul Douglas, and Seumalo are Howie’s only 3rd round picks since taking over for Chip.  About a mixed bag as one might expect.

No, but you can expect a 'very good' 3rd round pick to start, as you point out on the spectrum.  If a big hit starter is a great pick, decent starter would be a good pick, an average pick would be a decent backup/ST player, and the bad picks would be the busts.  

Very good would be a decent to upper level starter.   Westbrook = big hit starter = great pick.  Seumalo = decent starter = good pick.   Milton Williams (so far) is no more than an average pick, at best.

I don’t think Williams being misused per se. He makes sense as Jack of all trades as a 4i, 3T and as a nickel rusher once he figures out a pass rush plan. He’s not as good as Hargrave as a rusher, so he shouldn’t really play over him at this point. I would like to see him play over Cox some more on obvious passing downs. Let’s see what he and Hargrave’s first-step quickness can do to the interior. Or maybe stunt between him and Reddick/Sweat.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No, but you can expect a 'very good' 3rd round pick to start, as you point out on the spectrum.  If a big hit starter is a great pick, decent starter would be a good pick, an average pick would be a decent backup/ST player, and the bad picks would be the busts.  

Very good would be a decent to upper level starter.   Westbrook = big hit starter = great pick.  Seumalo = decent starter = good pick.   Milton Williams (so far) is no more than an average pick, at best.

Williams definitely has been a disappointment this year, probably the most disappointing player on the roster given what he flashed toward the end of last season. 

It's clear that a player like Milton Williams will only be unlocked once Gannon/Rocker are gone, because they're asking him to 2 gap. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/milton-williams 

Look at those measurables and they're asking him to play like Akiem Hicks. 

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

It's clear that a player like Milton Williams will only be unlocked once Gannon/Rocker are gone, because they're asking him to 2 gap. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/milton-williams 

Look at those measurables and they're asking him to play like Akiem Hicks. 

Yep.  He has an Aaron Donald type of game in him, if he's used the right way.  He needs to be attacking, not plugging.  But hey, this team is using DeVonta Smith as a possession WR now too.  Who knows what they are thinking with some of their players. 

10 minutes ago, RLC said:

It's clear that a player like Milton Williams will only be unlocked once Gannon/Rocker are gone, because they're asking him to 2 gap. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/milton-williams 

Look at those measurables and they're asking him to play like Akiem Hicks. 

He was drafted after Gannon was hired.  So, like I said, the issue is more at the fundamental level.  There is a massive disconnect still between the front office and the defensive coaching staff.  It's been happening for a while now.  Gerard Avery?  Rasul Douglas?  Go back even further to Chris Gocong.   We bring in guys and ask them to do something that's not in their wheelhouse.  Why does that keep happening?  Its been happening for a long time, and weirdly, it aligns very well with how long it's been since this team has successfully drafted a defensive Pro Bowler.  

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

Yep.  He has an Aaron Donald type of game in him, if he's used the right way.  He needs to be attacking, not plugging.  But hey, this team is using DeVonta Smith as a possession WR now too.  Who knows what they are thinking with some of their players. 

This at least makes sense in the context of our offense (4th in DVOA, 3rd in points). Quez and AJ Brown are better vertical WRs, so Smith gets less of those targets. Smith still struggles to get open against physical man coverage and can get pinned too easily on the sideline. He's a good player, but right now he's a zone-coverage killer and not yet a man-coverage killer.

41 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Of course, that then speaks to the lack of clear communication between the scouting department/Howie and the coaching staff... doesn't it?

Seems we like to bring in a lot of defensive players that are asked to play in a way that's not conducive to their skill sets.  

Or....Gannon sucks big monkey balls?

9 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Can he play NT?

Never felt good about this team the way I did in 17. DL just isn’t physical enough. 

41 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

Or....Gannon sucks big monkey balls?

Both can be true.

Can someone provide any updates / stats on the guy that the scouts wanted over Milton Williams? If I remember correctly, the guy the scouts wanted ruffled Howie's feathers when he decided to take Williams over the other guy.

1 minute ago, Eagle1ne said:

Can someone provide any updates / stats on the guy that the scouts wanted over Milton Williams? If I remember correctly, the guy the scouts wanted ruffled Howie's feathers when he decided to take Williams over the other guy.

Tom Donahoe, and he wanted Alim McNeil who the Lions drafted.

3 minutes ago, Eagle1ne said:

Can someone provide any updates / stats on the guy that the scouts wanted over Milton Williams? If I remember correctly, the guy the scouts wanted ruffled Howie's feathers when he decided to take Williams over the other guy.

Couldn’t say how he’s doing, but I’m confident that if we drafted Alim McNeil we wouldn’t have drafted Davis. FWIW. 

6 minutes ago, Eagle1ne said:

Can someone provide any updates / stats on the guy that the scouts wanted over Milton Williams? If I remember correctly, the guy the scouts wanted ruffled Howie's feathers when he decided to take Williams over the other guy.

Alim McNeill ..... they have comparable career stats in sacks, tackles, TFL, etc.  Milton has a slight overall advantage, and McNeill plays almost twice as many snaps.

If Eagles fans aren't happy with Williams, they sure wouldn't be happy with McNeill either.

10 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Didn’t he lead the NCAA in targeting ejections? Basically a guy who couldn’t make it off the Seattle or Carolina practice squads.  Was really hoping Noah Ellis was healthy and the Tate cut was for a spot for him on the PS.  Frankly though, since Tate was a big WR almost TE, I thought this space was for Jackson.  Speaking of Jackson, isn’t this a make or break week for him where he either goes active roster, cut or IR?