10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It is the largest city in Michigan.
It borders Lake Michigan.
I have a friend who lives there.

No it doesn't.  

Just now, Connecticut Eagle said:

No it doesn't.  

Yup... got the wrong waterway.   Whoops.

 

I think we learned a lot here today.  My friend should stay away from Lake Michigan.

23 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

So what do we think about Detroit?

its a cesspool of a dump, third world

37 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

So if Reagor and JJAW had been day-3 picks, only then the moves this offseason would be praise-worthy?

But because of the mistakes made two-plus years ago, there is no credit to be had?

Where did I not give howie credit for getting value out of them? Please go back and read what i wrote. I gave him praise for the last 2 offseason/drafts. I gave him praise the day he got rid of JJAW and reagor. (Frankly JJAW should have been gone last year). I also am critical and know that the two plus years ago mistake still affects this team and the decisions it had to make. I can praise a good trade value for sunk costs but doesn’t mean i forget that we got into a sunk cost situation because we chose poorly and scouted poorly then. 

I and plenty of people praised/credit what he was able to get out of a useless player in reagor and JJAW. That mistake from 2+ years ago still affects the team. You seem to think we should just praise the value and forget how we got there. Imo that’s bs 

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Where did I not give howie credit for getting value out of them? Please go back and read what i wrote. I gave him praise for the last 2 offseason/drafts. I gave him praise the day he got rid of JJAW and reagor. (Frankly JJAW should have been gone last year). I also am critical and know that the two plus years ago mistake still affects this team and the decisions it had to make. I can praise a good trade value for sunk costs but doesn’t mean i forget that we got into a sunk cost situation because we chose poorly and scouted poorly then. 

I and plenty of people praised/credit what he was able to get out of a useless player in reagor and JJAW. That mistake from 2+ years ago still affects the team. You seem to think we should just praise the value and forget how we got there. Imo that’s bs  

 

Not forget.  How can we?  He did those things.  No argument from me.

Just don't include them in every Howie conversation.

I want Jason Peters to go to Dallas and play for them; respect him and what he did as an Eagle, but he is very far from what he once was. Reddick, Sweat and others will be looking at him and thinking, yes please, start him.  I can't help but agree

12 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Not forget.  How can we?  He did those things.  No argument from me.

Just don't include them in every Howie conversation.

The part I disagree with you on is the fact that this trade is intertwined with that mistake they made. Hard to separate the two. we can say sunk cost, sunk cost and sunk cost. But it’s always going to be brought up with reagor (JJAW as well). They were so bad and so useless that we’ve now made a potential for 4th pick and 7th round pick into only can praise.

I give Howie credit for being able to at least get that out of what reagor and JJAW became. However I’m not going to go over the top praise as the reason why that trade looks better is cause eagles scouting and drafting was soo horrible on those two players that if you got anything you should just be happy.  Imo our goal with high round picks shouldn’t be well they were so bad and useless after we selected them that if we get any sort of value in a trade that’s great and praise worthy and ignore the reason we had to just be happy with any compensation for them. 

25 minutes ago, RLC said:

It should be a tight game at halftime, before we pull away.

We matchup well against them. Playing defense against our offense with bad LBs is a recipe for disaster given our run game. Our defense front is also more than deep enough to not get pounded by their OL. They will probably throw a ton of screens and dump offs.

Their center, Frank Ragnow, is probably their best OL. If he can handle Davis it could be a very tough game. OTOH, if he can't, Detroit is in deep doo-doo.

12 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The part I disagree with you on is the fact that this trade is intertwined with that mistake they made. Hard to separate the two. we can say sunk cost, sunk cost and sunk cost. But it’s always going to be brought up with reagor (JJAW as well). They were so bad and so useless that we’ve now made a potential for 4th pick and 7th round pick into only can praise.

I give Howie credit for being able to at least get that out of what reagor and JJAW became. However I’m not going to go over the top praise as the reason why that trade looks better is cause eagles scouting and drafting was soo horrible on those two players that if you got anything you should just be happy.  Imo our goal with high round picks shouldn’t be well they were so bad and useless after we selected them that if we get any sort of value in a trade that’s great and praise worthy and ignore the reason we had to just be happy with any compensation for them. 

Everyone:  "What a great game-winning catch and run by Brown!!!'

e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!:  "Sure, but the only reason Brown is on the roster is because of Howie's horrible picks of JJAW and Reagor.  Whomp.  Whomp."

 

13 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Everyone:  "What a great game-winning catch and run by Brown!!!'

e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!:  "Sure, but the only reason Brown is on the roster is because of Howie's horrible picks of JJAW and Reagor.  Whomp.  Whomp."

Lol. Cool not remotely the same circumstances. But great to know I’m gonna say that when that’s not the case. 

But you’re right I should just be praiseworthy and happy and ignore the fact eagles were so bad at drafting and the player was so useless that anything for him is better than the 20th pick cause i can just ignore the past that still affects this team and the decisions made by saying sunk cost.  

Let’s just be honest if that wasn’t a Eagles making that reagor trade and it were Dallas even with all the other moves I’m guaranteeing we are not overly praising them for what they got out of that pick overall. 

2 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Leave it up to you to think the Willie Beamon comp is a good thing.   

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Lol. Cool not remotely the same circumstances. But great to know I’m gonna say that when that’s not the case. 

But you’re right I should just be praiseworthy and happy and ignore the fact eagles were so bad at drafting and the player was so useless that anything for him is better than the 20th pick cause i can just ignore the past by saying sunk cost.  

JFC....no one is asking you to ignore what happened.  The 2019 and 2020 drafts sucked.  No argument.  This forum has baked it endlessly into the narrative.  It will not be forgotten.  

But at some point it needn't be raised anymore.

I’ll preface this with it’s totally his choice and he shouldn’t care what me or other nobodies think. 
 

But with the whole RG/LT situation, a lot of my Peters fandom died. 

30 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The part I disagree with you on is the fact that this trade is intertwined with that mistake they made. Hard to separate the two. we can say sunk cost, sunk cost and sunk cost. But it’s always going to be brought up with reagor (JJAW as well). They were so bad and so useless that we’ve now made a potential for 4th pick and 7th round pick into only can praise.

I give Howie credit for being able to at least get that out of what reagor and JJAW became. However I’m not going to go over the top praise as the reason why that trade looks better is cause eagles scouting and drafting was soo horrible on those two players that if you got anything you should just be happy.  Imo our goal with high round picks shouldn’t be well they were so bad and useless after we selected them that if we get any sort of value in a trade that’s great and praise worthy and ignore the reason we had to just be happy with any compensation for them. 

I lean on your side. I think a lot of people are caught up in the moment that we literally got anything of value for JJAW and Reagor in a one month span.

31 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I want Jason Peters to go to Dallas and play for them; respect him and what he did as an Eagle, but he is very far from what he once was. Reddick, Sweat and others will be looking at him and thinking, yes please, start him.  I can't help but agree

Peters is still a startable LT. People act like just because he's old and gets annoying injuries that he sucks. Dallas is lucky a guy like that is even available in September.

Just now, Connecticut Eagle said:

JFC....no one is asking you to ignore what happened.  The 2019 and 2020 drafts sucked.  No argument.  This forum has baked it endlessly into the narrative.  It will not be forgotten.  No one needs to be reminded. 

But at some point it needn't be raised anymore.

JFC in this situation it needed to be reminded. As as nice as it is to get something for reagor who was useless. His ineptitude forced them into other decisions that are still affecting this team in other areas long term. Where we disagree is you seem to think shouldn’t bring up Reagor’s failure still affecting the team at the time of this trade cause we should just praise a likely 5th and 7th round pick we got for him even though he was uselsss 

5 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Peters is still a startable LT. People act like just because he's old and gets annoying injuries that he sucks. Dallas is lucky a guy like that is even available in September.

Yeah... no.   He's washed, which is why he's still available at the point in the offseason.

2 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Peters is still a startable LT. People act like just because he's old and gets annoying injuries that he sucks. Dallas is lucky a guy like that is even available in September.

He was, but he's verging on a JAG now - not through age, but through physical ability and his unemployment status reflect it.  There were times last season he was awful  in Chicago and it's no crime at all; happens to all players, even the great ones

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

JFC in this situation it needed to be reminded. As as nice as it is to get something for reagor who was useless. His ineptitude forced them into other decisions that are still affecting this team in other areas long term. Where we disagree is you seem to think shouldn’t bring up Reagor’s failure still affecting the team at the time of this trade cause we should just praise a likely 5th and 7th round pick we got for him even though he was uselsss 

Pretty much, yes.

The suckiness of the pick and the suckiness of the player are old news. 

17 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I lean on your side. I think a lot of people are caught up in the moment that we literally got anything of value for JJAW and Reagor in a one month span.

That’s part of this too. That people are just so thrilled to not have them on the roster that anything for them is considered great. My whole point of this is I am happy they got any sort of value out of what reagor and Jjaw today. credit to howie for getting it. 

However because of their failures and the sunk cost that they became the Eagles had to spend even more on that singular position to correct the problem and ignore other positions who need help long term due to the sunk cost of JJAW and reagor. 

both of those things are true and both could be talked about during when that trade was made. Because they’re always gonna be intertwined

 

7 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Pretty much, yes.

The suckiness of the pick and the suckiness of the player are old news. 

Cool you do you. I will praise the fact they got anything for those two. And also look at the failure of those two players still affecting the team today and long term. Those trades don’t remove the latter nor ignored in the value of that sunk cost trade. Nor dropped cause you just want to praise the trade while providing no other context besides they were crappy players we got something for.   

3 hours ago, bpac55 said:

How do you figure?   The initial tweet was talking about what Howie has been able to get in return for Carson, Reagor and JJAW. 

I’m simply showing what the resources used to acquire Carson, Reagor and JJAW compared to the return. 
 

Carson Wentz cost: two 1sts, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.  
Return: 1st, 2nd. 

JJAW cost: 2nd. Return: Ugo Amadi

Reagor cost: 1st. Return:  7th, Conditional 4th. 
 

I understand the muppet tweet was showing that pieces of each were used to acquire Smith, Brown and CGJ trying to make it look like Howie is a genius.  I’d argue it shows what a failure he’s been at drafting.  Forgetting Carson Wentz and that situation, if Reagor and JJAW were even competent WR instead of enormous busts, they could have used their last 2 1st round picks on other positions and saved $100 million. Check that, I’ll include Wentz for this because at the time the Eagles ate $34 million to get rid of him, the largest dead cap hit at the time.  

As both justrelax and I have pointed out drafting and trading are two separate and distinctly different activities.  Together (along with other job description components) they are part of the total GM responsibilities, but the original tweet was talking about the trades, not the aggregate General Manager responsibilities.

Further, once the Draft is over, you move into the realm of sunk costs.  You can't change the history of each individual player, and any team looking to trade with you couldn't care less about where the player they are looking to trade for was taken.  For example, Jordan Mailata was taken in the 7th Round.  Do you think any GM who approaches Howie with a trade offer for Mailata gives any consideration to that piece of Draft history.  No, they don't.  They simply look at the value of the player in the present time, as well as their expectation of what that player can contribute in the future.  Same goes for Jason Kelce.  Wat meaning does his 6th Round selection in the Draft have in any trade scenario? None.  Same was true recently for Vaitai.  Same was true years ago for Peters.  

Criticize Howie left right and sideways for poor drafts.  His record is less than stellar in that arena.  But he can only trade with the immediate and future value of the then-current Eagles resources.  It is like a poker hand.  You play the cards you have.  What happened in the prior hands does not change the value of the five cards in your fist.  You have to play those cards.

If I remember correctly you are a collector of NFL and Eagles memorabilia.  When you give consideration to selling any of your items, how much does what you paid for them figure into your sell vs. don't sell decision process?

----------------------------- 

With that said, what do you think the components of an NFL General Manager's job description are?

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Cool you do you. I will praise the fact they got anything for those two. And also look at the failure of those two players still affecting the team today and long term. Those trades don’t remove the latter nor should be dropped cause you just want to praise the trade while providing no other context besides they were crappy players we got something for.   

Have at it.

We got something for crappy players.  I'll take the V.  The L's for the picks are already on the shelf.

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Have at it.

We got something for crappy players.  I'll take the V.  The L's for the picks are already on the shelf.

Again your argument is removing all context from trade besides we got something for crappy players and looking at anything else doesn’t matter. Be happy we got something. For me it’s happy we got something for a sunk cost but that doesn’t mean you just ignore how you got to the sunk cost value and how it’s affecting the team past, present and future.