Pro Football Focus' breakdown of Richardson:

Next week's game of Will Levis vs Anthony Richardson is going to be must watch.

4 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Rushing attempts per game for 2021:

Jackson and Huntley were the Ravens running game last year with all the injuries to their RBs. 

6 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

Please don't misconstrue my post as defending Hurts or any QB who cannot pass effectively. Just an opinion that if the QB is a threat to run and that if this is reinforced as part of a game plan, the offense is harder to defend against. Also, in terms of the Bills, yes they could have won they game but if you watched that entire season, they should have scored a lot more points than they did in the SB. The Giants held them in check so the narrative doesn't change. In terms of Air Coryell, the point is that back then, not now, they were a pass happy offense versus the rest of the league and at that time and didn't win a SB. My point was more one of balance and if you include all the dimensions that an offense can deploy, a QB who is a run threat is a positive. This is different from what you wrote -- a critique about QBs that are primarily looking to run and I agree with the critique.

I'm not suggesting going over the top in terms of pass-run ratio.  The run has its place.  But that place is from the RB position, not the QB.   A QB who can run, but is primarily a passer is the way the NFL is moving.  The primary responsibility of the QB remains to be able to beat the defense through the air.  Having an extra component is nice, but not a requirement.   I'd take a statue like Foles over a runner who struggles to throw even now.  Defenses have an easier time shutting down the running QBs than the passing ones.  That's not to say that passing QBs can't be shut down.  They obviously can be shut down.  But, its much harder, which is why it happens far less frequently.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm not suggesting going over the top in terms of pass-run ratio.  The run has its place.  But that place is from the RB position, not the QB.   A QB who can run, but is primarily a passer is the way the NFL is moving.  The primary responsibility of the QB remains to be able to beat the defense through the air.  Having an extra component is nice, but not a requirement.   I'd take a statue like Foles over a runner who struggles to throw even now.  Defenses have an easier time shutting down the running QBs than the passing ones.  That's not to say that passing QBs can't be shut down.  They obviously can be shut down.  But, its much harder, which is why it happens far less frequently.

I agree. I would also rather have Foles with the line and receivers the Birds have. I think he would tear it up with good pass pro and the long ball.

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

QBs need to be able to PASS.  Having the ability to run as well just makes them more dangerous.  Its why Kirk Cousins got huge money, despite limited talent... he can still pass.  And he can't run.  Meanwhile, the guy drafted by the same team, in the same year, that got the first shot at the starting job... has less than 60 pass attempts since 2016.  In that same time frame, Cousins has 151 TD passes.  

I really am not disagreeing with your take on this.  I am just saying that the NFL has migrated its offenses so that the threat of the QB running is incorporated.  Heck, the Eagles won a SB by reverting to an offense for Nick that includes the threat of the QB running.  Mahommes is excellent at it.  So is Allen.  But both look to pass.  That is the difference between Hurts and them.  While I think Hurts improved some last year, I still my not,convinced he gets there. May be why I have the most pessimistic prediction for wins this season.

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 Both Freeman and Murray had over 500 yards, combining for over 1,000 yards.  Huntley had under 300.  Close but wrong.  

Huntley played 7 games. Not even close but wrong. 

10 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I really am not disagreeing with your take on this.  I am just saying that the NFL has migrated its offenses so that the threat of the QB running is incorporated.  Heck, the Eagles won a SB by reverting to an offense for Nick that includes the threat of the QB running.  Mahommes is excellent at it.  So is Allen.  But both look to pass.  That is the difference between Hurts and them.  While I think Hurts improved some last year, I still my not,convinced he gets there. May be why I have the most pessimistic prediction for wins this season.

That's not true.  They ran an RPO offense.  It was a threat of a run (from the back) or Nick throwing the ball.     You are conflating the RPO (run-pass offense) and the RO (read-option).  The Eagles ran the RPOs early in the season with Hurts, but he struggled at reading the play quick enough and they had penalties racking up.  They changed from RPOs to ROs and Hurts ran more by design.

19 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I really am not disagreeing with your take on this.  I am just saying that the NFL has migrated its offenses so that the threat of the QB running is incorporated.  Heck, the Eagles won a SB by reverting to an offense for Nick that includes the threat of the QB running.  Mahommes is excellent at it.  So is Allen.  But both look to pass.  That is the difference between Hurts and them.  While I think Hurts improved some last year, I still my not,convinced he gets there. May be why I have the most pessimistic prediction for wins this season.

Tell us how this worked out for the teams in the AFC and NFC championship games?

9 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

😂 So you just made my point for me.  A backup QB who started only 4 games wasn’t one of the teams main sources of a ground game.  The starting QB and the two RB’s who combined for over 1,000 yards were.  But maybe that’s because they looked to the college game to get a schematic advantage as you tried to argue earlier.  You keep trying to do mental gymnastics on that ridiculous take you had today.  It’s fun.  

I said Jackson AND Huntley.  They combined for close to 1,100 yards rushing over 16 games.  Pretty close Murray and Williams over 17 games.  

and

/and,(ə)n/

 

conjunction

1. 1. 

   used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly.

   "bread and butter"

Just now, BigEFly said:

I said Jackson AND Huntley.  They combined for close to 1,100 yards rushing over 16 games.  Pretty close Murray and Williams over 17 games.  

and

/and,(ə)n/

 

conjunction

1. 1. 

   used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly.

   "bread and butter"

You need to give it up. The NFL has been trying to migrate to a running quarterback since Randall Cunningham, NFL defensive coordinators figure it out, if you want to win in this league you need a quarterback who can pass the ball

Let's look at playoff teams from last season: 

Raiders 

Bengals 

Chiefs 

Bills 

Steelers 

Titans 

Patriots 

 

And 

 

Eagles 

Bucs 

Rams 

Cowboys 

49ers 

Packers 

Cards 

 

Man oh man, what a long list of running QBs. Two teams. Four if you want to argue Buffalo and KC, but I'd disagree. The two most mobile being us and the Cardinals, who were embarrassed. Similarly to how Lamar, another running QB, has repeatedly wet his pants in the playoffs.

Pretty cut and dry, but here we are...again.

 Mobility like Mahomes, and Rodgers is fine, but the QB the Eagles moved up to draft 5-6 years ago had his career set on a downward trajectory because he ran.  Wentz isn’t the first and won’t be the last. Bill’s fans think Josh Allen is built different, and so was Cam Newton.  
 QB’s are protected in the pocket, really anywhere behind the line, it’s why Brady doesn’t miss games,  Rodgers, doesn’t miss much either, but Jackson has missed a bunch already, and the team that pays him $180 million plus guaranteed, won’t win anything.  A lot of it is on Harbaugh not developing Jackson, he should of sat his rookie season like Mahomes did. The only thing Harbaugh has done is put Jackson in an NFL version of his Louisville offense, that’s not growth. 
 QB’s get hurt in the pocket,  Zach Wilson didn’t against the Eagles, but they do.  Joe Montana has said it several times, don’t make the hardest job in sports, harder, QB’s have an internal clock, if you’re at 3 and the ball is in your hands, what happens next is your fault, whether it’s a holding penalty or a concussion! 
 

13 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not true.  They ran an RPO offense.  It was a threat of a run (from the back) or Nick throwing the ball.     You are conflating the RPO (run-pass offense) and the RO (read-option).  The Eagles ran the RPOs early in the season with Hurts, but he struggled at reading the play quick enough and they had penalties racking up.  They changed from RPOs to ROs and Hurts ran more by design.

I must disagree.  The RPO offense is not limited to only the back as a running option.  It’s reading the LB. If the LB over commits to the RB side, the QB has the option of pulling the ball and running to the vacated space.  Sometimes that is by design.  Under AR, Doug learned to run QB draws off the RPO.  It is not primarily driven towards QB runs but enough to keep the defense honest. Nick would pull it and run just enough to make the LB hesitate just a second.  

17 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Let's look at playoff teams from last season: 

Raiders 

Bengals 

Chiefs 

Bills 

Steelers 

Titans 

Patriots 

 

And 

 

Eagles 

Bucs 

Rams 

Cowboys 

49ers 

Packers 

Cards 

 

Man oh man, what a long list of running QBs. Two teams. Four if you want to argue Buffalo and KC, but I'd disagree. The two most mobile being us and the Cardinals, who were embarrassed. Similarly to how Lamar, another running QB, has repeatedly wet his pants in the playoffs.

Pretty cut and dry, but here we are...again.

 Allen is a runner, to me that’s any QB that averages 100 rushes per season. With him it’s arguing semantics, he turned himself into a good, accurate, passer.   
 

14 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

AND

Murray and Freeman didn’t play in all 17 games   Murray only played in 14.    

 

Try real hard to read the sentence again.  I didn’t say the Murray and Freeman played all 17 games.  Jointly.

But since you need to win.  Chalk your definition of "wrong” up as a win.  
 

4 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I must disagree.  The RPO offense is not limited to only the back as a running option.  It’s reading the LB. If the LB over commits to the RB side, the QB has the option of pulling the ball and running to the vacated space.  Sometimes that is by design.  Under AR, Doug learned to run QB draws off the RPO.  It is not primarily driven towards QB runs but enough to keep the defense honest. Nick would pull it and run just enough to make the LB hesitate just a second.  

How many times did Foles pull the ball and keep it on the SB run?  0.  He pulled and threw.   

69 - 101 - 33 - 356 - 15 - 22 - 539 - 57 - neg6 - 64 - 3 - 35 - 218 - 6 - 43

Those are the in-season rushing yardage totals of the last 15 SB winning QBs (oldest to most-recent).

Helluva trend towards running QBs we've got there.

11 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I must disagree.  The RPO offense is not limited to only the back as a running option.  It’s reading the LB. If the LB over commits to the RB side, the QB has the option of pulling the ball and running to the vacated space.  Sometimes that is by design.  Under AR, Doug learned to run QB draws off the RPO.  It is not primarily driven towards QB runs but enough to keep the defense honest. Nick would pull it and run just enough to make the LB hesitate just a second.  

Are you sure Nick ran it on RPOs or did he run it on the read options? We ran a bunch of them with him.

It doesnt make much sense at all for a QB to run it on an RPO instead of throwing it if youve sucked the LB outta there with the RB action. That opens up the passing window, which is the better way to gain yardage. He should either hand it to the RB if its going to be a run (because the RB is better at that, and less valuable to the team), or pass it when the LB is playing run. Theres just no time when it is preferable for the QB to run in an RPO.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

He ran 8 times in the 5 games he played after Wentz went out.  Hardly something that will "suck a defense in”.  
 

 

 

without somehow going back and watching those plays, I doubt they were RPOs. 

That’s doctor crab legs to you 

 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Agreed.  They had to have been last resort, oh ish I got 5 yards open to the sideline, type runs.  But in reality he didn’t get that much.  

 

Im guessing RPO and red option are still mistakenly being used interchangeably. 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

 

Im guessing RPO and red option are still mistakenly being used interchangeably. 

Also not to be mistaken with the can't read option, which is how Tampa's defensive coaching staff describe our offense.

18 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Try real hard to read the sentence again.  I didn’t say the Murray and Freeman played all 17 games.  Jointly.

But since you need to win.  Chalk your definition of "wrong” up as a win.  
 

Well he did win.  You said Jackson and Huntley were the running game.  They were out rushed by washed up Freeman and Murray in less games.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

How many times did Foles pull the ball and keep it on the SB run?  0.  He pulled and threw.   

Nick ran 11 times in seven games in 2017.  I would bet only a few were designed runs.  Just enough that is was a threat.  We are talking Nick, who runs a glacial speed.  

Now, look at Hurts’ runs and how many are designed runs versus held the ball to long or panicked runs.  That’s kind of where I said we really aren’t disagreeing about passing ability. I think I may be the only one who predicted a losing season this year primarily because I am not convinced of Hurts’ reading and reacting.  

But just the ability to run and occasionally showing it on a designed play, is part of the NFL offense.  That was where I thought JR was going with his comment. It was with McNabb, with Vick, with Wentz, and with Foles.  Definitely with Chip.  It certainly is with Hurts. That doesn’t negate that Hurts runs too much when it wasn’t the play design. (I would argue that by the time Hurts reads the LB on an RPO and decides what to do, too often it is too late.). I think you are construing an ability to run (threat) with being a running QB, which is not what I was saying.  With a QB that can run, the risk the defense faces is increased.

Probably because of the references to Jackson through this off.  That is probably my fault.  I was incorporating in the discussion that I think Jackson is a better passer that he is credited with being.  

I am impressed at how thoroughly so many completely misunderstood the thrust of my post.

A QB who can run and will run is a nightmare for a defense.

You want a QB who can do that. I stated quite clearly that I want a QB who can pass. BUT an indifferent passer like Lamar can still lead a top level offense.

Brady clouds our minds. He’s an outlier. There’s no one like him. Trying to get the next Brady is a fool’s errand.