42 minutes ago, justrelax said:

You persist on the 17 runs business. There were seven called runs, one of which was a kneel-down. I clocked the first half and there were 10 RO plays. On 8 of them, the RB took the ball. As I said in response to a post from @Iggles_Phan, I didn't believe Hurts was really running a true RO on most of them but was showing the RO action to freeze the DE.

Called or not is irrelevant. It shows just how much he runs off script too which is a huge part of the problem

Sirianni just held a presser and said Howie's involvement in game plans is only player movement between active roster and PS. He claims Howie has no say on which players suit up or what plays are called.

25 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Becuase had a bad game.  That happens.  The coaching staff and other players around him also having a bad game only compounded the issue. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to comprehend. 

I dont know why you cant comprehend my question. I asked why did Hurts have a bad game, and your answer is because he had a bad game....

I mean its not his only bad game from last year and are we going to put the entire blame on everyone else in all of those games? Like vs the 49ers? vs the Bucs the first time? vs the Saints? vs the Giants? Specifically answer why he was so bad in the passing game in all of these games.

42 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Not instigating just curious - what were the 2nd half RO play stats?

Glad you asked. I just finished clocking them. We ran seven ROs in the second half, three of which were on our last possession when we were trying to kill the clock. Hurts kept the ball once. We ran zero RPOs.

@Iggles_Phan

42 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

You are not wrong about your critique of Hurts. It however is an overused trope when comparing black to white QBs.

I don't disagree that it can be an overused trope.   But, just because it is used in an instance doesn't mean that it is incorrect in that instance because it is overused.

JaMarcus Russell was a black QB.  JaMarcus Russell was a statue.   If the trope is used against him, it is racially motivated.   
Tyrod Taylor is a black QB.  Tyrod Taylor is a shorter, plus mobility QB, with limited ability in the passing game.  Using that criticism against him is appropriate.
Teddy Bridgewater is a black QB.  Teddy is basically a statue back there as well.  See Russell again.  
Mike MacMahon was a white QB.   He was also mobile QB, who couldn't pass the ball.  I used the same critique of him.  

 

I used to think that mobility was a major plus, and if the QB was mobile enough, that would make up for the deficiencies as a passer.  I've seen more evidence over the years and have found that to be the exact opposite of the truth.  Generally, the more mobile the QB is, the more they rely on their legs, the shorter their shelf-life in the NFL and the lower their actual ceiling ends up being... UNLESS they go to a team that supports them in NOT being a QB that has to rely on their legs and is taught how to actually play NFL style QB.   Had Steve Young not ended up in SF and been rebuilt as a QB by Walsh, et al, he'd have washed out of the league and no one would remember him outside of the BYU alum circles, or USFL archive footage.  He was going no where in Tampa.  But, Walsh saw enough in him to covet him for a 2nd round pick (a guy who used a lot of 2nd round picks to turn them into gold).  And he became a Hall of Famer, and the first QB in NFL history to record a passer rating over 100 for a season.  And led the league in passer rating 5 out of 6 years (4 of which consecutively, iirc).  But, only because he was taught how to play QB properly.

45 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Of the 6 running plays, 4 were designed as QB runs? The counter point to your argument is that other QB would have made more throws vs. scrambling for yards.  

Correct.

45 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

How do you spot a dad joke?

You should know, it's a parent.

3 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

I dont know why you cant comprehend my question. I asked why did Hurts have a bad game, and your answer is because he had a bad game....

I mean its not his only bad game from last year and are we going to put the entire blame on everyone else in all of those games? Like vs the 49ers? vs the Bucs the first time? vs the Saints? vs the Giants? Specifically answer why he was so bad in the passing game in all of these games.

 

Because bad games happen UndyTaker. It occurs.  He had an off day.  The rest of the offense was terrible as well.  The coaching was terrible as well. That all worked together for a terrible showing all around for everyone on the team except for two players. 

9 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

True, I guess I should reframe it as a mesh-point two-handed play action vs conventional single-handed play action. You can run pass sets out of both, and you don't need to actually have a true read on the former to suck LBs up to the LOS. In other words, you can run strictly passes out of the gun after having a fake mesh-point hand-off, without any packaged plays (i.e. no intention to ever read a defender or hand the ball off.) Merely giving the appearance of that as a threat to keep the LBs close to the LOS.

Agreed.

4 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Glad you asked. I just finished clocking them. We ran seven ROs in the second half, three of which were on our last possession when we were trying to kill the clock. Hurts kept the ball once. We ran zero RPOs.

@Iggles_Phan

Thank you.   That's sort of what I remembered.  You said it was 4 RPOs in the first half?  

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Because bad games happen UndyTaker. It occurs.  He had an off day.  The rest of the offense was terrible as well.  The coaching was terrible as well. That all worked together for a terrible showing all around for everyone on the team except for two players. 

lol alright well then how can he be our franchise QB for the future if hes going to be having all these off days? We need more consistency from your QB to have good games dont you think? Especially come playoff time.

@LeanMeanGM 

34-24 Vikings

Bonus: there's some kind of on-field fight/shoving match etc

8 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Sirianni just held a presser and said Howie's involvement in game plans is only player movement between active roster and PS. He claims Howie has no say on which players suit up or what plays are called.

I'll wager that he gets insight on personnel needs going forward as well.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Thank you.   That's sort of what I remembered.  You said it was 4 RPOs in the first half?  

Three. I checked my notes. If I said four I mis-wrote. It's three.

4 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Three. I checked my notes. If I said four I mis-wrote. It's three.

I was probably mis-remembering.   Thank you.    

16 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Glad you asked. I just finished clocking them. We ran seven ROs in the second half, three of which were on our last possession when we were trying to kill the clock. Hurts kept the ball once. We ran zero RPOs.

@Iggles_Phan

Question, and not trying to be a D.

How are you able to tell the difference between a RO and then the same motion that is a designed run ??

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So what do you call it when the QB takes the ball and then runs past the LOS with it?

 

I call it Claudette.😝

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Question, and not trying to be a D.

How are you able to tell the difference between a RO and then the same motion that is a designed run ??

Basically you can't. That's why added: I didn't believe Hurts was really running a true RO on most of them but was showing the RO action to freeze the DE.

55 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

Lets look at the first 2 African Amercian Super Bowl winners

Doug Williams

Russel Wilson

anecdotal. The study covers tendencies over the breadth, not individuals.

1 minute ago, justrelax said:

Basically you can't. That's why added: I didn't believe Hurts was really running a true RO on most of them but was showing the RO action to freeze the DE.

So the below is a guess on your part ??

20 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Glad you asked. I just finished clocking them. We ran seven ROs in the second half, three of which were on our last possession when we were trying to kill the clock. Hurts kept the ball once. We ran zero RPOs.

@Iggles_Phan

 

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

I

makes sense.

No, run with the knee-jerk reaction that Howie is fully involved in game planning. It better suits a lot of the narrative in here and makes people feel better about their Howie Hate. 

I happen to think it is an excellent collaborative approach to fielding your best assets for a given situation.

Step in the right direction, anyway...

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

He

cant

read

and at least for now, is able to overcompensate for that by taking off. I do not believe that is sustainable. Not for a deep playoff run in any one season and certainly not over time.

22 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't disagree that it can be an overused trope.   But, just because it is used in an instance doesn't mean that it is incorrect in that instance because it is overused.

JaMarcus Russell was a black QB.  JaMarcus Russell was a statue.   If the trope is used against him, it is racially motivated.   
Tyrod Taylor is a black QB.  Tyrod Taylor is a shorter, plus mobility QB, with limited ability in the passing game.  Using that criticism against him is appropriate.
Teddy Bridgewater is a black QB.  Teddy is basically a statue back there as well.  See Russell again.  
Mike MacMahon was a white QB.   He was also mobile QB, who couldn't pass the ball.  I used the same critique of him.  

 

I used to think that mobility was a major plus, and if the QB was mobile enough, that would make up for the deficiencies as a passer.  I've seen more evidence over the years and have found that to be the exact opposite of the truth.  Generally, the more mobile the QB is, the more they rely on their legs, the shorter their shelf-life in the NFL and the lower their actual ceiling ends up being... UNLESS they go to a team that supports them in NOT being a QB that has to rely on their legs and is taught how to actually play NFL style QB.   Had Steve Young not ended up in SF and been rebuilt as a QB by Walsh, et al, he'd have washed out of the league and no one would remember him outside of the BYU alum circles, or USFL archive footage.  He was going no where in Tampa.  But, Walsh saw enough in him to covet him for a 2nd round pick (a guy who used a lot of 2nd round picks to turn them into gold).  And he became a Hall of Famer, and the first QB in NFL history to record a passer rating over 100 for a season.  And led the league in passer rating 5 out of 6 years (4 of which consecutively, iirc).  But, only because he was taught how to play QB properly.

I agree.

I find the howie coaches thing much ado about nothing

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I find the howie coaches thing much ado about nothing

I wish it was about something, only because I want to see Howie throw the challenge flag from the press box down to the field.  That would be a throw.

Facebook decided to remove an old post of mine due to community standards and depression.