13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

And that's how they end up with 50+ sacks and a nice QB rating (b/c QB rating doesn't take into account holding the ball too long and killing drives with bad sacks).

The advantage of the running QB is he can get out of the pocket, run if there's open space or throw the ball away - the stationary QB has to eat the ball or force it into coverage.

It's all a matter of balance, I just want Hurts to stay long enough to go through his progressions, but it's up to his WRs to get open, it's up to him to avoid losses that put the team in a bad hole (3rd and 12+, and so on).

That's great in theory.

Brady was never sacked 50 times in a season, max was 41 and 40. 
Manning was never sacked more than 30 times in a season. 
Drew Bledsoe was sacked 50+ times only twice.  First 6 years in the league though, never exceeded 36 sacks.

Meanwhile, Randall Cunningham lead the league in sacks in '86, '87, '88', '90, '92... with 72, 54, 57, 49 and 60 sacks respectively.
Vick, 2004 - 45 sacks, 2006 - 45 sacks.

Last year, Lamar Jackson was sacked 38 times in 12 games - extrapolates to 53 sacks in a 17 game season.
Ryan Tannehill (who is fairly mobile) was sacked 48 times.

 

In other words, there are more factors to consider than the running ability of the QB.   

6 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’m impressed how you can make zero sense but still kind of make sense at the same time 

3 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

We beat it into the ground, because that's the biggest issue on our favorite team, and the Blog is where we discuss said things. Some push back and say "We know the issues, why rehash them over and over"....well....it's a discussion board. And specifically in the off season, there's a lot of nothingness going on, so naturally the conversation will wind it's way back to Hurts. 

We all want the team to do well. But until Hurts shows that he's more willing to be a passer than a me-first runner, I have no expectation that we are going anywhere, and my frustration will remain. The defense is a completely separate issue, and it also needs to be fixed, but this is an offensive league, and the biggest problem on this team still is Hurts. 

Good post overall.  There is lots that can be said about the whole comment, but I'd like to focus only on the first and last paragraphs, especially the two parts I have bolded. 

There is no doubt that the frustration remains for the majority of posters here in the Blog.  I get that.  I share some of that frustration.  I've been similarly frustrated with Zach Ertz, with Tra Thomas, with Jeremiah Trotter, with the entire decade of the 60's after the Championship season, with Buddy Ryan and Rich Kotite and Ray Rhodes, etc., etc., etc.  Frustration is part of being an Eagles fan.  Heck, frustration is part of being the fan of any and all of the 32 NFL teams.  

The problem I have is that the majority of the posts expressing frustration that dominate the comments on the Blog are neither discussion nor conversation.  They are mostly just venting steam. 

4 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Good post overall.  There is lots that can be said about the whole comment, but I'd like to focus only on the first and last paragraphs, especially the two parts I have bolded. 

There is no doubt that the frustration remains for the majority of posters here in the Blog.  I get that.  I share some of that frustration.  I've been similarly frustrated with Zach Ertz, with Tra Thomas, with Jeremiah Trotter, with the entire decade of the 60's after the Championship season, with Buddy Ryan and Rich Kotite and Ray Rhodes, etc., etc., etc.  Frustration is part of being an Eagles fan.  Heck, frustration is part of being the fan of any and all of the 32 NFL teams.  

The problem I have is that the majority of the posts expressing frustration that dominate the comments on the Blog are neither discussion nor conversation.  They are mostly just venting steam. 

Have you met a Ravens fan? They are currently riding so high and think their team is so mighty for beating the damn Jets so easily.

Now… when they get beat by the Dolphins this weekend, they’ll just disappear and act like the team doesn’t exist. It’ll be whatever… 

So no frustration from the fanbase here in Baltimore.  

Vikings 41, Eagles 33

Bold prediction: Vikings offense scores points on every drive.

Bonus comment: F Jonathan Gannon

@LeanMeanGM

46 minutes ago, Iggles25 said:

Eagles will double and triple team Jefferson. Wouldn't shock me to see Reagor get a bunch of targets.

Will he catch those targets is the question?

They don’t really rotate their WR’s. It’s Jefferson, Thielen and Osborn and that’s about it. Reagor didn’t get any offensive snaps last week, and I don’t think the other guy did either.

37 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's great in theory.

Brady was never sacked 50 times in a season, max was 41 and 40. 
Manning was never sacked more than 30 times in a season. 
Drew Bledsoe was sacked 50+ times only twice.  First 6 years in the league though, never exceeded 36 sacks.

Meanwhile, Randall Cunningham lead the league in sacks in '86, '87, '88', '90, '92... with 72, 54, 57, 49 and 60 sacks respectively.
Vick, 2004 - 45 sacks, 2006 - 45 sacks.

Last year, Lamar Jackson was sacked 38 times in 12 games - extrapolates to 53 sacks in a 17 game season.
Ryan Tannehill (who is fairly mobile) was sacked 48 times.

 

In other words, there are more factors to consider than the running ability of the QB.   

Yes, Brady and Peyton were typical pocket QBs, run of the mill types.

People need a reality check, we're not getting the next Mahomes, Brady or Peyton, it's unlikely we're getting the next Rodgers or Young, either.

Look at the top ten QBs drafted the last decade, that's what we're probably getting out of the draft to replace Hurts, Goff, Wentz, etc.

#1 pick the last 25 years:  Lawrence, Burrow, Murray, Mayfield, Goff, Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, A Smith, Eli, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, Peyton

So out of 18 QBs, 1 HOF (Peyton), 1 top ten guy in Stafford, Burrow is still ??? (durability, repeatability), Eli is a #10-15 guy, the rest . . .

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They don’t really rotate their WR’s. It’s Jefferson, Thielen and Osborn and that’s about it. Reagor didn’t get any offensive snaps last week, and I don’t think the other guy did either.

Ahh, so unless he returns a kickoff or punt for a TD, his revenge is reserved to cheering on Jefferson and Cousins.

 

18 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yes, Brady and Peyton were typical pocket QBs, run of the mill types.

People need a reality check, we're not getting the next Mahomes, Brady or Peyton, it's unlikely we're getting the next Rodgers or Young, either.

Look at the top ten QBs drafted the last decade, that's what we're probably getting out of the draft to replace Hurts, Goff, Wentz, etc.

#1 pick the last 25 years:  Lawrence, Burrow, Murray, Mayfield, Goff, Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, A Smith, Eli, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, Peyton

So out of 18 QBs, 1 HOF (Peyton), 1 top ten guy in Stafford, Burrow is still ??? (durability, repeatability), Eli is a #10-15 guy, the rest . . .

Why did you go so drastic? Even average pocket passers stay in the pocket longer than Hurts and don't get sacked as much as you're saying

25 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yes, Brady and Peyton were typical pocket QBs, run of the mill types.

People need a reality check, we're not getting the next Mahomes, Brady or Peyton, it's unlikely we're getting the next Rodgers or Young, either.

Look at the top ten QBs drafted the last decade, that's what we're probably getting out of the draft to replace Hurts, Goff, Wentz, etc.

#1 pick the last 25 years:  Lawrence, Burrow, Murray, Mayfield, Goff, Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, A Smith, Eli, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, Peyton

So out of 18 QBs, 1 HOF (Peyton), 1 top ten guy in Stafford, Burrow is still ??? (durability, repeatability), Eli is a #10-15 guy, the rest . . .

Someone will.   This is perhaps your most scathing indictment of Roseman yet!

So does anyone have faith the DLine will be better? 

5 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

but, please -- the ignore feature.  If everyone would just put these tools on ignore instead of entertaining them for 5-10 pages it would do a lot to clean up your frustrations and others as well.  They WANT the back-and-forth and name-calling; it's entertainment for them.  Without it, sooner or later they will leave

Well said.  Thank you for taking the time to say it..

41 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They don’t really rotate their WR’s. It’s Jefferson, Thielen and Osborn and that’s about it. Reagor didn’t get any offensive snaps last week, and I don’t think the other guy did either.

Is Reagor in danger of losing even more snaps to The Other Guy?

 

2 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So does anyone have faith the DLine will be better? 

Bradberry is terrible. If they can’t take advantage there I will be officially worried. 

I'm so Fing glad Reagor is off this team. What a goof.

4 hours ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I put a lot of this on coaching. However, I see their point if it costs wins. Hurts is who he is. Let’s just hope he keeps being the best version of himself and the D-Line stops sucking 

I don't think a coach is telling him not to make that throw to AJ Brown.  

12 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So does anyone have faith the DLine will be better? 

No

46 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yes, Brady and Peyton were typical pocket QBs, run of the mill types.

People need a reality check, we're not getting the next Mahomes, Brady or Peyton, it's unlikely we're getting the next Rodgers or Young, either.

Look at the top ten QBs drafted the last decade, that's what we're probably getting out of the draft to replace Hurts, Goff, Wentz, etc.

#1 pick the last 25 years:  Lawrence, Burrow, Murray, Mayfield, Goff, Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, A Smith, Eli, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, Peyton

So out of 18 QBs, 1 HOF (Peyton), 1 top ten guy in Stafford, Burrow is still ??? (durability, repeatability), Eli is a #10-15 guy, the rest . . .

And that's a completely separate argument than the one you made about QBs who run being sacked less frequently versus pocket passers.   I specifically added Bledsoe for reference... hardly a guy that's mobile.   But, we can play whatever game you wish...

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-sacked?season_id=19

Check the stats for yourself.   You went hyperbolic for no reason.  The premise is faulty.

2021 - Highest sacked QB was Burrow at 71.   Next was 48 - Tannehill (a mobile guy).
2020 - Highest was Wilson at 51, Wentz at 50, Watson 49, Daniel Jones 48.   These are all guys that were 'plus' mobility QBs.
2019 - Watson - 55, Wilson - 54, Murray - 48.  Plus mobility guys.
2018 - Watson - 65, Prescott - 58, Wilson - 52.
2017 - Brissett - 52 (first real 'statue' type QB to make the list), Tyrod Taylor - 48 

The point remains... there's more to the number of sacks allowed than the mobility of the QB.  That 50+ number you threw out there for effect just isn't a realistic number.  Only 9 QBs have been sacked 50+ times in the last 5 seasons... and almost all of them are guys that wouldn't be referred to as a 'statue', but rather as more mobile than not.  

14 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So does anyone have faith the DLine will be better? 

The weak Dline was alarming with the amount of money in it

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And that's a completely separate argument than the one you made about QBs who run being sacked less frequently versus pocket passers.   I specifically added Bledsoe for reference... hardly a guy that's mobile.   But, we can play whatever game you wish...

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-sacked?season_id=19

Check the stats for yourself.   You went hyperbolic for no reason.  The premise is faulty.

2021 - Highest sacked QB was Burrow at 71.   Next was 48 - Tannehill (a mobile guy).
2020 - Highest was Wilson at 51, Wentz at 50, Watson 49, Daniel Jones 48.   These are all guys that were 'plus' mobility QBs.
2019 - Watson - 55, Wilson - 54, Murray - 48.  Plus mobility guys.
2018 - Watson - 65, Prescott - 58, Wilson - 52.
2017 - Brissett - 52 (first real 'statue' type QB to make the list), Tyrod Taylor - 48 

The point remains... there's more to the number of sacks allowed than the mobility of the QB.  That 50+ number you threw out there for effect just isn't a realistic number.  Only 9 QBs have been sacked 50+ times in the last 5 seasons... and almost all of them are guys that wouldn't be referred to as a 'statue', but rather as more mobile than not.  

That was from the Colts ignoring their Oline for years with Luck

Still tragic what they did from a fandom perspective. Luck was great and they screwed him over for years

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Against the run, it should be.  Both lines had assignment breakdowns.  But as far as pass rush is concerned, unless they do something schematically to free up some edge guys, no.  

Or schematically to not play a soft zone in passing situations so the pass rush has a chance. 

The DL issues are in part because of the opposing QB time to throw metric.  QBs are reading the Eagles D pre-snap and diagnosing quickly where to go with the football.  Again last week Jared Goff led the league at 2.47.  That doesn't give the DL enough time to make an impact.  Gannon has to be much better at giving one look pre-snap, then getting out of it, to make the QB hold the football longer.

Cousins typically takes a long time to throw because he prefers to throw downfield more than average.  Last week he was 2.96 seconds which is longer than average.  If the Eagles pass rush can't bother Cousins before he throws downfield that will be a sign of a big problem.

The good news is that Hurts was 2.75 seconds -- around average.  He was the highest time to throw in the league in both 2020 and 2021

3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

That was from the Colts ignoring their Oline for years with Luck

Still tragic what they did from a fandom perspective. Luck was great and they screwed him over for years

I agree... but the point is, the number was inflated and the reason was much more complex than whether the QB could run out of the pocket or not.  And more ironically, it seems that mobility is in no way a guarantee of the QB not being sacked a lot.  The most sacked QBs on this list are mostly on the more mobile side of the continuum. 

53 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So does anyone have faith the DLine will be better? 

As long as they play this guy https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/jordan-davis-philadelphia-eagles-nfl-football

Just now, dawkdaballhawk said:

As long as this play this guy https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/jordan-davis-philadelphia-eagles-nfl-football

Coach Caplan says he needs work, so that's a no apparently