1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Maybe I'm a contrarian. Maybe you are too. I disagree with you and you disagree with me. Weird to think one is more noble than the other. 

If you're asking me if I would rather have Burns than Barnett, I would take Burns easy. But where exactly are we going to play him? Are you going to take snaps away from Sweat or Reddick? Than there's Nolan Smith. Clearly Smith is way behind Sweat, Reddick and Burns as a player, but I expected that when we drafted him. I'm excited about his potential as he develops. Realistically a team isn't going to fill up the bottom end of their roster with players like Burns. Even if they could keep a great player like that happy in a backup role, they couldn't afford to pay him what he's worth. 

We have a rotation. How do you think Barnett gets snaps? Graham's days are numbered as well. Pretty sure Desai would figure out how to optimize the line ups.

On 10/23/2023 at 9:42 PM, xxeaglesfanxx said:

Is he even in the team anymore? He’s been invisible all year. Not sure I’ve heard his name mentioned once.

Totally.  You know it’s bad when people are defending him in the sense that he hasn’t had any of his usual boneheaded penalties….he also hasn’t made any notable plays, either.  You could substitute him with a life sized mannequin on the field and the mannequin would probably generate more pressure.

19 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

That’s funny because your buddy @brkmsn only talked about the percentages of snaps. Simply put if he’s considered the same as usual he would get the same percentage regardless, but that’s not what happened. His numbers dropped.

 

18 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Maybe I'm a contrarian. Maybe you are too. I disagree with you and you disagree with me. Weird to think one is more noble than the other. 

If you're asking me if I would rather have Burns than Barnett, I would take Burns easy. But where exactly are we going to play him? Are you going to take snaps away from Sweat or Reddick? Than there's Nolan Smith. Clearly Smith is way behind Sweat, Reddick and Burns as a player, but I expected that when we drafted him. I'm excited about his potential as he develops. Realistically a team isn't going to fill up the bottom end of their roster with players like Burns. Even if they could keep a great player like that happy in a backup role, they couldn't afford to pay him what he's worth. 

Yes and on percentages of snaps, Graham and Smith dropped in similar ways. They wanted to and were able to play Sweat and Reddick more given the opponent and us having a limited number of snaps in the game.

We can't afford Burns. Of course we would all rather have him. Yes he could be part of a rotation, but there is no way we could pay all of Sweat, Reddick, Burns and Smith next year.  

8 hours ago, psychodog said:

Totally.  You know it’s bad when people are defending him in the sense that he hasn’t had any of his usual boneheaded penalties….he also hasn’t made any notable plays, either.  You could substitute him with a life sized mannequin on the field and the mannequin would probably generate more pressure.

You're misrepresenting certain arguments in this thread. Nobody has "defended " him by saying at least he has no penalties thus far. The people that are saying that are the same people that keep knocking him because of  the legend of his penalty history. Back when he was technically a starter and played a majority of the defensive snaps, his penalty history was within the average range for a starting DE/edge. None of them directly cost us any games. However, when compared to the best edge rushers in the league, Barnett failed to put up as many big, game-changing type plays. So the knock should never have been about penalties as much as about production or impact. But that never stops critics from exaggerating the truth and that's why this thread exists. 

Howie defended Barnett. Sirianni defended Barnett. Several of the vet players defended Barnett. For now, he's still here and active for every game. So who exactly is exaggerating? The Eagles organization, the few posters defending his value to the team, or the vocal group of detractors that say he adds no value to the team?  The answer is obvious and that makes people call me a "troll." 

lol

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You're misrepresenting certain arguments in this thread. Nobody has "defended " him by saying at least he has no penalties thus far. The people that are saying that are the same people that keep knocking him because of  the legend of his penalty history. Back when he was technically a starter and played a majority of the defensive snaps, his penalty history was within the average range for a starting DE/edge. None of them directly cost us any games. However, when compared to the best edge rushers in the league, Barnett failed to put up as many big, game-changing type plays. So the knock should never have been about penalties as much as about production or impact. But that never stops critics from exaggerating the truth and that's why this thread exists. 

Howie defended Barnett. Sirianni defended Barnett. Several of the vet players defended Barnett. For now, he's still here and active for every game. So who exactly is exaggerating? The Eagles organization, the few posters defending his value to the team, or the vocal group of detractors that say he adds no value to the team?  The answer is obvious and that makes people call me a "troll." 

lol

I'm not referring to just THIS particular thread.  I've seen people defend him in other posts regarding his personal foul track record.  For you to say that none of his boneheaded personal foul penalties over the years haven't cost us any games is naive.  How would you know that for sure?  You can't, obviously.  He has a reputation for boneheaded penalties because he's had so many boneheaded penalties from personal fouls.  I can't believe I'm even taking this much time to respond to a post involving a player that is virtually invisible these days.  I'm out.  Have a good night.

13 minutes ago, psychodog said:

I'm not referring to just THIS particular thread.  I've seen people defend him in other posts regarding his personal foul track record.  For you to say that none of his boneheaded personal foul penalties over the years haven't cost us any games is naive.  How would you know that for sure?  You can't, obviously.  He has a reputation for boneheaded penalties because he's had so many boneheaded penalties from personal fouls.  I can't believe I'm even taking this much time to respond to a post involving a player that is virtually invisible these days.  I'm out.  Have a good night.

There are mistakes that players make that can directly lead to a loss. Most recently, Hurts' decision to throw into coverage late in the 4th quarter when we were leading, fits that bill. If you have a memory of Barnett turning a likely win into a loss because of a penalty, please share it. Nobody else has been able to come up with one yet. 

12 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Yes and on percentages of snaps, Graham and Smith dropped in similar ways. They wanted to and were able to play Sweat and Reddick more given the opponent and us having a limited number of snaps in the game.

We can't afford Burns. Of course we would all rather have him. Yes he could be part of a rotation, but there is no way we could pay all of Sweat, Reddick, Burns and Smith next year.  

I expect Graham to drop his snaps as the season goes on due to his age, but what’s Barnett’s excuse? If he’s indeed a 7-8 sack guy as you claimed why would he play less? Bottom line is he’s either good or he isn’t. Right now I’m not seeing the good. 

On 10/23/2023 at 6:05 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

Let’s calm the hype on Smith. He was completely unblocked on his sack. We know he can run. 

We never said that. You are making stuff up. We said he was a useful rotation piece and injury insurance. He is still that. What if Sweat gets hurt? Graham doesn’t play much these days and if Smith was ready he would play more.

If you are right and Barnett sucks then we will get nothing valuable for him. Moving him for the sake of it makes no sense.

 

"Although they are not expected to be sellers at the trade deadline, the Philadelphia Eagles are reportedly "open" to trading away defensive end Derek Barnett, according to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10095132-nfl-trade-rumors-eagles-open-to-dealing-derek-barnett-ahead-of-deadline
 

Don’t know if it would happen but again if moving this guy improves the team in other areas (heck addition but subtraction is still some improvement) then I’m all for it. He’s gone next year anyways, and no he’s not going to be worth a compensatory pick. Time to move on. 

15 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

"Although they are not expected to be sellers at the trade deadline, the Philadelphia Eagles are reportedly "open" to trading away defensive end Derek Barnett, according to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10095132-nfl-trade-rumors-eagles-open-to-dealing-derek-barnett-ahead-of-deadline
 

Don’t know if it would happen but again if moving this guy improves the team in other areas (heck addition but subtraction is still some improvement) then I’m all for it. He’s gone next year anyways, and no he’s not going to be worth a compensatory pick. Time to move on. 

Okay, I’ll bite.  Who do you replace him with at DE.  Smith isn’t a DE.  He is a stand up OLB like Reddick.

On 10/25/2023 at 5:56 AM, psychodog said:

Totally.  You know it’s bad when people are defending him in the sense that he hasn’t had any of his usual boneheaded penalties….he also hasn’t made any notable plays, either.  You could substitute him with a life sized mannequin on the field and the mannequin would probably generate more pressure.

The coaches are not asking for or expecting pressure.  Pressure comes on passing downs.  The coaches aren’t putting Barnett in on passing downs.  They are putting him in on running downs.

5 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Okay, I’ll bite.  Who do you replace him with at DE.  Smith isn’t a DE.  He is a stand up OLB like Reddick.

The Eagles currently have seven DTs on their roster. You don’t think any of them are capable of giving this team three tackles in seven games like this bum? If you really are worried about three tackles in seven games….

3 minutes ago, mattwill said:

The coaches are not asking for or expecting pressure.  Pressure comes on passing downs.  The coaches aren’t putting Barnett in on passing downs.  They are putting him in on running downs.

This isn’t true. Barnett has been in full series with both passing and run plays. 

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The Eagles currently have seven DTs on their roster. You don’t think any of them are capable of giving this team three tackles in seven games like this bum? If you really are worried about three tackles in seven games….

No, I’m not worried about three tackles.  If I’m worried at all it is about a Sweat injury, and who takes his snaps while he is injured … or giving Sweat a breather when the down and distance says "running play” or the scoreboard says "garbage time.”

4 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

This isn’t true. Barnett has been in full series with both passing and run plays. 

Show me one such series.  There weren’t any in the Miami game when the game was on the line.

On 9/26/2023 at 11:15 PM, brkmsn said:

Since you already broke your word, I'll give you the play that redeems you (per your conditions) :

Barnett with the pressure that forced a terrible throw. 

@mattwill This is clearly NOT a run play and the best thing we could call a highlight for Barnett this season. 

4 minutes ago, mattwill said:

No, I’m not worried about three tackles.  If I’m worried at all it is about a Sweat injury, and who takes his snaps while he is injured … or giving Sweat a breather when the down and distance says "running play” or the scoreboard says "garbage time.”

A Sweat injury means a steep decline from the position, because Barnett is trash. If rather they use Carter at end or move snaps for BG than Barnett as an every down starter. 

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

@mattwill This is clearly NOT a run play and the best thing we could call a highlight for Barnett this season. 

One play five games ago.  And on that play what criticism of Barnett do you have?  He clearly the closest Eagle to the Bucs QB.  You are sounding pretty desperate.

13 minutes ago, mattwill said:

One play five games ago.  And on that play what criticism of Barnett do you have?  He clearly the closest Eagle to the Bucs QB.  You are sounding pretty desperate.

There are other plays where Barnett is using that silly spin move that goes nowhere. Also you’re dissing Smith, but on most occasions the Eagles DE tends to play more of a hybrid LB position than a three point stance. Josh Sweat and Barnett usually rush from a stand up position. Also that is his only play doing anything and you’re acting like he’s irreplaceable. It’s a joke. You’re defending him and you don’t even realize how they’re using him. 😂🤣😂

On 10/25/2023 at 9:56 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

We can't afford Burns. Of course we would all rather have him. Yes he could be part of a rotation, but there is no way we could pay all of Sweat, Reddick, Burns and Smith next year.  

Yawn. Every year the same. Yes, there is a way. Between restructures to free up cap (and we’re not even against it right now) and backloaded new deals we can easily manage whatever we want. 
If this would be the best use of our ressources is another matter. But please spare me with the cap considerations. Roseman has proven time and again we can manipulate that with ease. And if anything we got more room now than we did for a long time.

 

4 hours ago, Infam said:

Yawn. Every year the same. Yes, there is a way. Between restructures to free up cap (and we’re not even against it right now) and backloaded new deals we can easily manage whatever we want. 
If this would be the best use of our ressources is another matter. But please spare me with the cap considerations. Roseman has proven time and again we can manipulate that with ease. And if anything we got more room now than we did for a long time.

Basically people don’t want to move from Barnett base off nothing but fear. Fear that Howie Roseman (the best GM in football) is incapable of getting players under contract which is something he always does. Secondly they’re afraid that the Eagles can’t find someone capable of giving this team the production of three tackles in seven games if by some unfortunate reason Josh Sweat goes down. Yeah the guy who did nothing to help them get to the Super Bowl last year, and has done nothing of merit to deserve more playing time is the invaluable piece that will get us to over the SB hump. It makes no sense. 

32 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

@mattwill Please note that on this play neither BG nor Barnett were in typical DE stances. They both were in hybrid linebacker stances. In other words Smith can still take snaps away from Barnett even if they aren’t listed as the same, because the Eagles run multi front lines. This is a five man front. 

26 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

@mattwill Please note that on this play neither BG nor Barnett were in typical DE stances. They both were in hybrid linebacker stances. In other words Smith can still take snaps away from Barnett even if they aren’t listed as the same, because the Eagles run multi front lines. This is a five man front. 

All the Edge rushers across the league take snaps from both two point, three point and even four point stances.  The occasional example isn't terribly meaningful.  What is meaningful is an exhaustive statistical analysis of all the snaps of the respective players. 

I'm not dissing Smith.  I fully expect him to have a very different usage in his second year than he is having in his first year.  That pattern is a reasonably consistent Eagles MO.  They give Rookies time to develop,

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

All the Edge rushers across the league take snaps from both two point, three point and even four point stances.  The occasional example isn't terribly meaningful.  What is meaningful is an exhaustive statistical analysis of all the snaps of the respective players. 

I'm not dissing Smith.  I fully expect him to have a very different usage in his second year than he is having in his first year.  That pattern is a reasonably consistent Eagles MO.  They give Rookies time to develop,

How the DEs line up depends on if the play is based on a 4-3 front or a 3-4. Most of Barnett's snaps seem to be from a 4-3 base where he lines up as a traditional RDE with his hand on the ground. If he's in on a 3-4 base, he'll line up like a ROLB. On those plays, there should be a NT and two DTs on the field. Ideally, Barnett and Graham line up as DEs in a 4-3, which is their best fit. When they line up as OLBs in a 3-4, they could be asked to drop into coverage which isn't ideal. The problem is the Eagles are less and less of a 4-3 team, so traditional DEs are less effective and today's modern "Edge" players are a little better fit as they are usually lighter and faster. But both Graham and Barnett still have value because the Eagles still like to use a hybrid defense with multiple fronts each game. The development of Nolan Smith may eventually lead the Eagles to stay mostly in a 3-4. So it will be interesting to see the defense evolve over the next couple seasons when our traditional DEs are no longer here. 

 

Not interested in keeping Barnett even a little bit just because he's decent at stopping the run. He's got no legs or speed at this point. Super replaceable as he hardly plays. He is who he is. And he's is a risk for taking a bone headed penalty at some point. It's coming. Ha. Rather see more of Milton Williams and even Street at end who give you much more explosiveness. Dead wood at this point. Hope they find a taker for a future 7th rounder. DONE!