Derek Barnett

[EazyEaglez]

6 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Or he did it because Barnett wasn't worth what he was going to get paid. Then again Howie is always thinking ahead so might be lining something else up. 

I don't see them doing anything at those positions till later. How do we know what to improve on if we haven't seen them play yet? 

I agree we don’t know, but he could be just setting up for something. With that being the case he’s the one who signed him to that contract originally and even then it made little to no sense. He didn’t earn that kind of money prior to the injury and no one was clamoring to sign him so I don’t even know why Howie paid him so much to begin with. 

[kiwieagle]

On 7/28/2023 at 4:00 PM, EazyEaglez said:

Seems far less likely Barnett will be cut after this restructuring it seems. The Eagles still believe enough in the guy to want to keep him around. Just curious as to why Howie is doing this posturing move. Is he setting up a possible bigger move later or is this just to tray and save money as a whole. Not exactly sure why this was necessary.  

Yeah guaranteed to make the roster. You don't guarantee someone more money (which makes the dead cap higher if cut) to lower the overall cap hit if you had doubts about them making the roster. With this move, the Eagles will come ahead if he is on the roster and will be worse off if they cut him (vs his previous contract). 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

Yeah guaranteed to make the roster. You don't guarantee someone more money (which makes the dead cap higher if cut) to lower the overall cap hit if you had doubts about them making the roster. With this move, the Eagles will come ahead if he is on the roster and will be worse off if they cut him (vs his previous contract). 

And I think as the 5th DE with experience in the league and a guy who has made plays that’s a good decision. He makes dumb decisions at times but as a depth guy I think there’s value.

[EazyEaglez]

18 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And I think as the 5th DE with experience in the league and a guy who has made plays that’s a good decision. He makes dumb decisions at times but as a depth guy I think there’s value.

Small doses at best. I don’t think he will be helpful if he’s relied on too much. It’s hard to see how he fits right now because of the injury he’s still recovering from, but he needs to mature from the bone head plays and the over aggressive play that hurts the team. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Small doses at best. I don’t think he will be helpful if he’s relied on too much. It’s hard to see how he fits right now because of the injury he’s still recovering from, but he needs to mature from the bone head plays and the over aggressive play that hurts the team. 

I don’t think he’s going to be needed a lot? Probably a little more earlier in the year as Smith gets up to speed?

[Godfather]

Could be trade bait during the deadline

[ManchesterEagle]

20 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

Yeah guaranteed to make the roster. You don't guarantee someone more money (which makes the dead cap higher if cut) to lower the overall cap hit if you had doubts about them making the roster. With this move, the Eagles will come ahead if he is on the roster and will be worse off if they cut him (vs his previous contract). 

 

10 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don’t think he’s going to be needed a lot? Probably a little more earlier in the year as Smith gets up to speed?

I'm a lot higher on Barnett than most.

You look at his career statistics and they aren't as bad as some people think. For a rotational end, he's been on pace for around 7 sacks most years. He actually compares pretty favorably against early career Brandon Graham. 2021 was a bit of a nightmare, but that was the year that teams just short passed us to death, so the pass rush never really had a chance to get going.

It's not easy to find a guy who can get 6/7 sacks a year in a rotation. The Eagles tried with Quinn last year and that failed miserably. 

I know everyone is high on Nolan Smith and I'm excited too. But he wasn't really a sack guy in college and may well need time to refine his technique. Plus I see them using Smith sometimes in coverage or as a 5th rusher/joker. Graham's getting older and they like to keep Sweat and Reddick fresh.

I think Barnett is going to play a fair amount and hopefully he can stay healthy and give us 6/7 sacks as part of our rotation.

[kiwieagle]

https://www.phillyvoice.com/mailbag-what-are-chances-eagles-trade-for-linebacker-safety-wide-receiver-running-back/

Interesting note in this article:

Quote

When that report first emerged, I figured the increase in guaranteed money also increased his chances of making the roster this year. I later learned from a team source that his guaranteed money was always $3.5 money, not $1.5 million. In other words, he did not get a bump in guaranteed money. It was a straight pay cut

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I'm a lot higher on Barnett than most.

You look at his career statistics and they aren't as bad as some people think. For a rotational end, he's been on pace for around 7 sacks most years. He actually compares pretty favorably against early career Brandon Graham. 2021 was a bit of a nightmare, but that was the year that teams just short passed us to death, so the pass rush never really had a chance to get going.

It's not easy to find a guy who can get 6/7 sacks a year in a rotation. The Eagles tried with Quinn last year and that failed miserably. 

I know everyone is high on Nolan Smith and I'm excited too. But he wasn't really a sack guy in college and may well need time to refine his technique. Plus I see them using Smith sometimes in coverage or as a 5th rusher/joker. Graham's getting older and they like to keep Sweat and Reddick fresh.

I think Barnett is going to play a fair amount and hopefully he can stay healthy and give us 6/7 sacks as part of our rotation.

I don't think Smith and Barnett will be playing the same position. Barnett is a DE. I think they'll move Smith all around and even have him play off ball LB. In fact, since they don't like to give anything away in preseason, I think Smith will probably play a good amount of SAM in those games. Once the regular season begins, they'll probably get real creative with him and try to find ways to get him on the field as much as possible. But I can see them wanting to get a long look at him at off ball LB because that's probably were his best opportunity to play will be. 

Sweat has surpassed Barnett as a player. So, barring injury, we don't really need Barnett to be more than a reserve/rotational guy. I think he's perfect for that role. Even as an injury replacement, he has plenty of experience and is still young enough to get better as a player. I think he'll have 3.5-5 sacks as a reserve. Honestly, If he puts up 7 as a reserve, we'll be getting a decent comp pick from him in the future after he hits free agency. 

I think we can expect production from him like we got from Chris Long as a reserve. While he might not be as glamorous as fans wish he was, at his worst he's WAAYY better than Kerrigan was for us in 2021. 

[jsb235]

The preseason is going to be fun. Our backup dline (at least those in line for snaps) is Smith, Barnett, Williams and Carter. Those four are going to destroy backup olinemen. 

[eggs]

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

The preseason is going to be fun. Our backup dline (at least those in line for snaps) is Smith, Barnett, Williams and Carter. Those four are going to destroy backup olinemen. 

Yes - on a team like the Giants, they would be the stars. 

[eggs]

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think Smith and Barnett will be playing the same position. Barnett is a DE. I think they'll move Smith all around and even have him play off ball LB. In fact, since they don't like to give anything away in preseason, I think Smith will probably play a good amount of SAM in those games. Once the regular season begins, they'll probably get real creative with him and try to find ways to get him on the field as much as possible. But I can see them wanting to get a long look at him at off ball LB because that's probably were his best opportunity to play will be. 

Sweat has surpassed Barnett as a player. So, barring injury, we don't really need Barnett to be more than a reserve/rotational guy. I think he's perfect for that role. Even as an injury replacement, he has plenty of experience and is still young enough to get better as a player. I think he'll have 3.5-5 sacks as a reserve. Honestly, If he puts up 7 as a reserve, we'll be getting a decent comp pick from him in the future after he hits free agency. 

I think we can expect production from him like we got from Chris Long as a reserve. While he might not be as glamorous as fans wish he was, at his worst he's WAAYY better than Kerrigan was for us in 2021. 

Am I wrong to think that Smith or Reddick will be more dominant than Micah Parsons in the next year or two, especially with the freedom they will have with the rest of our fpdefensive front?  
 

Let me know if I’m breathing too much preseason oxygen. 

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, eggs said:

Am I wrong to think that Smith or Reddick will be more dominant than Micah Parsons in the next year or two, especially with the freedom they will have with the rest of our fpdefensive front?  
 

Let me know if I’m breathing too much preseason oxygen. 

Parsons is a truly great player with a lot of upside still. Reddick was just about as productive for us last season. Probably the main thing that separates them is versatility. Reddick was just average at ILB (in Arizona). Parsons can move around and be great at many positions. Smith is every bit as athletic as Parsons and is very intelligent as well. He also has impressive leadership qualities. He probably needs a little time to develop more pass rush technique, but he could end up being just as versatile as Parsons.

I would rather have Reddick and Smith than Parsons, but I just don't want to discount what type of player Parsons is. He's the best player on dallas. We may not be able to move Reddick around like Parsons, but he's pretty much equally as productive from his role here. 

[EazyEaglez]

16 hours ago, Godfather said:

Could be trade bait during the deadline

I think the restructure could make it more difficult to move him though. Still don’t understand why Howie thought it was a good idea to give him that contract to begin with. 

[time2rock]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I think the restructure could make it more difficult to move him though. Still don’t understand why Howie thought it was a good idea to give him that contract to begin with. 

We do kinda need the depth.  Maybe Howie is hopeful he is a bit of a late bloomer kinda like how BG was (although for different reasons ... they switched his position a few times early in his career and he played under multiple DCs in different schemes). Hopefully with the extra picks we'll have next year we add more bodies (on cheaper rookie contracts) so that we can move on from him (if he continues to underwhelm).  

[brkmsn]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I think the restructure could make it more difficult to move him though. Still don’t understand why Howie thought it was a good idea to give him that contract to begin with. 

Probably just to piss you off, obviously.

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Probably just to piss you off, obviously.

I’m not pissed. He’s a backup player and good depth. He’s not a starter. He’s a rotation guy. Not pissed that Howie gave him a contract, and I’m happy he restructured it. Just didn’t understand why he paid him so much and FYI when that contract was originally signed I wasn’t the only person who questioned the numbers. 

[EazyEaglez]

5 hours ago, time2rock said:

We do kinda need the depth.  Maybe Howie is hopeful he is a bit of a late bloomer kinda like how BG was (although for different reasons ... they switched his position a few times early in his career and he played under multiple DCs in different schemes). Hopefully with the extra picks we'll have next year we add more bodies (on cheaper rookie contracts) so that we can move on from him (if he continues to underwhelm).  

I do think Barnett has talent. A lot of his issues are directly related to him pressing to try a make a play and ultimately hurting the team. He’s too aggressive for his own good. Maybe someone can coach him into being a more disciplined player. In any case I don’t mind him as depth, but he can not be a consistent starter the way he currently plays.

[RunItBAck]

On 7/31/2023 at 10:50 AM, Godfather said:

Could be trade bait during the deadline

I'm sure teams are salivating over the chance to add an under performing first round pick that is coming off an ACL injury 😀

[time2rock]

43 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I do think Barnett has talent. A lot of his issues are directly related to him pressing to try a make a play and ultimately hurting the team. He’s too aggressive for his good.

The Carson Wentz of the defense.  

 

[EazyEaglez]

58 minutes ago, time2rock said:

The Carson Wentz of the defense.  

 

I don’t think Barnett ever came close to how insanely good Carson was for that short period of time, but he does share that Carson penchant for the boneheaded play. 😂

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t think Barnett ever came close to how insanely good Carson was for that short period of time, but he does share that Carson penchant for the boneheaded play. 😂

He was insanely good for like 11 games 6 yrs ago. Think it's time to turn the page on him 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

He was insanely good for like 11 games 6 yrs ago. Think it's time to turn the page on him 

Are we talking about Carson, Barnett, or both? 😂🤣😂

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m not pissed. He’s a backup player and good depth. He’s not a starter. He’s a rotation guy. Not pissed that Howie gave him a contract, and I’m happy he restructured it. Just didn’t understand why he paid him so much and FYI when that contract was originally signed I wasn’t the only person who questioned the numbers. 

Before the 2016 season we re-signed Sam Bradford to a 2-year $36M contract with a $26M guarantee. That was following a season where he went 7-7 and ended with an 86.4 QB rating. That became the benchmark for a fringe starter at the QB position. We also signed Chase Daniel to a 3 year, $21M contract that year showing the value some teams have on reserve QBs. When it comes to DEs / Edge, they have a pretty high market value. The Eagles picked up Barnett's 5th year option for something around $10M in 2021. The contract he signed after that season was a 2-year, $14M contract (less than he made the year before). You may not understand it, but that was a fair deal for a fringe starter at that position. Sweat, Reddick and Graham were all scheduled to make more last season. 

6 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I do think Barnett has talent. A lot of his issues are directly related to him pressing to try a make a play and ultimately hurting the team. He’s too aggressive for his own good. Maybe someone can coach him into being a more disciplined player. In any case I don’t mind him as depth, but he can not be a consistent starter the way he currently plays.

I'm curious if anybody really remembers a specific play where a Barnett mistake cost us a game we clearly would have won. He averages 5.2 penalties (accepted) per season (including postseason). He averages 3.2 offsides or neutral zone infractions (accepted) per season. I know he's aggressive. I know he's not a perfect player. But fans sometimes remember a player made a lot more mistakes (in this case penalties) than he actually did. It's called blowing things out of proportion. Even Jason Kelce averages 4.5 penalties per season and he's our most reliable player. There are accusations around the league that Lane Johnson gets away with false starts on a regular basis. Coaches teach players how to "get away with" infractions all the time and the NFL largely lets many things slide. Penalties happen. Everybody knows this.

Honestly, I can live with his penalty rate. It's about average for a DE. Von Miller averages about 5.8 penalties per season. Joey Bosa 5.4 per season. Maxx Crosby 6 per season. Nick Bosa had 9 penalties last year. I just wish Barnett would make more big plays, like the other guys listed. Those guys are stars and Barnett has failed to get close to that status. 

Anyway, Barnett was a "consistent starter" for the healthy part of 4 seasons. Sweat ultimately surpassed him for a the starting gig. Barnett is an okay player that just never quite reached his potential --- which is a bit of a disappointment considering his draft status.

[ManchesterEagle]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:18 AM, brkmsn said:

Before the 2016 season we re-signed Sam Bradford to a 2-year $36M contract with a $26M guarantee. That was following a season where he went 7-7 and ended with an 86.4 QB rating. That became the benchmark for a fringe starter at the QB position. We also signed Chase Daniel to a 3 year, $21M contract that year showing the value some teams have on reserve QBs. When it comes to DEs / Edge, they have a pretty high market value. The Eagles picked up Barnett's 5th year option for something around $10M in 2021. The contract he signed after that season was a 2-year, $14M contract (less than he made the year before). You may not understand it, but that was a fair deal for a fringe starter at that position. Sweat, Reddick and Graham were all scheduled to make more last season. 

I'm curious if anybody really remembers a specific play where a Barnett mistake cost us a game we clearly would have won. He averages 5.2 penalties (accepted) per season (including postseason). He averages 3.2 offsides or neutral zone infractions (accepted) per season. I know he's aggressive. I know he's not a perfect player. But fans sometimes remember a player made a lot more mistakes (in this case penalties) than he actually did. It's called blowing things out of proportion. Even Jason Kelce averages 4.5 penalties per season and he's our most reliable player. There are accusations around the league that Lane Johnson gets away with false starts on a regular basis. Coaches teach players how to "get away with" infractions all the time and the NFL largely lets many things slide. Penalties happen. Everybody knows this.

Honestly, I can live with his penalty rate. It's about average for a DE. Von Miller averages about 5.8 penalties per season. Joey Bosa 5.4 per season. Maxx Crosby 6 per season. Nick Bosa had 9 penalties last year. I just wish Barnett would make more big plays, like the other guys listed. Those guys are stars and Barnett has failed to get close to that status. 

Anyway, Barnett was a "consistent starter" for the healthy part of 4 seasons. Sweat ultimately surpassed him for a the starting gig. Barnett is an okay player that just never quite reached his potential --- which is a bit of a disappointment considering his draft status.

Yeah all of this. Look how much Seattle just paid for Uchenna Nwosu. He had one year with above 5 sacks and they are paying him more than Reddick. Barnett has been a disappointment as a first rounder, but he is a fringe DE starter, capable of around 6 sacks a season in a rotational role and potentially a couple more. 

Agree re penalties. They are overblown and he's had some soft calls against him. Everyone notices when he commits a penalty. People just shrug if say Cox gets called.

It really isn't easy finding guys who can get to the QB. Barnett has some trade value, but we are in a Super Bowl window so he is worth keeping around. I know we all hope the top 4 rushers produce, but Graham is 35 and Smith is still unproven at NFL level. One under performance or injury could give us issues. Barnett will be kept around and may be more productive than people think.