OZARK

[TEW]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:13 AM, LeanMeanGM said:

In regards to the car crash

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A car crash is what started everything in Ozark. Wendy had a miscarriage which led to her depression which eventually led Marty to start money laundering. It probably has some hidden greater meaning that I can't think of, but at the least, the series starts and ends with a car accident. 

 

I think it’s simple: the symbolism is that their life is a car wreck.

[LeanMeanGM]

39 minutes ago, TEW said:

I liked the ending. Thought it was at least as good as Breaking Bad’s.

 

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it’s a shame Ruth died, but frankly it was fitting, she brought it on herself, and it was pretty realistic she’d get whacked at some point.

 

I don’t think it’s anywhere near as good as Breaking Bad. It’s the only show I can think of that recently nailed the landing. 

[TEW]

16 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t think it’s anywhere near as good as Breaking Bad. It’s the only show I can think of that recently nailed the landing. 

Not the whole show, but the ending. BB ending was pretty predictable. I guess it had more action and a nice final kill by Walter, but it wasn’t any more satisfying to me than Ozark.

I might actually like Ozark’s more. The bad guys won, as they often do.

[LeanMeanGM]

10 hours ago, TEW said:

Not the whole show, but the ending. BB ending was pretty predictable. I guess it had more action and a nice final kill by Walter, but it wasn’t any more satisfying to me than Ozark.

I might actually like Ozark’s more. The bad guys won, as they often do.

Predictable is sometimes the best. Walt was a "bad guy that won” also. He got his revenge on everyone that wronged him while dying only because of his own doing. Jesse finally escaped everyone that was keeping him hostage for years. Skylar finally got the confession from Walt that everything had nothing to do with family, it was all his selfish intentions. 

Ozark didn’t didn’t make nearly as much sense imo. Jonah’s arc alone from him hating his mom because of Ben and them being upset with him laundering to everyone just suddenly being fine with everything during the final scene is a stretch. 

[Mike030270]

I thought they forced the female empowerment after season 1 too strongly

Spoiler

Where did Camila come from? How was there no resistance to her taking over from anyone on the inside

Omar's death seemed insignificant 

They didn't need to bring back the drug addict that stole all of that money

Wendy's lust for power got annoying super quickly

Ruth was an ungrateful ****

Charlotte took a back seat the past few seasons

Jonah needed an asswhooping. They let this kid do whatever he wanted

 

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

I was really late to the game with this series. I didn't start watching it at all til around January. Didn't know a thing about it. The first couple seasons were very good. It started going off the rails a bit when they introduced Ben. And then it just started getting kinda silly. Wyatt and Darlene? WTF. 

I heard it compared to Breaking Bad, another series I hadn't seen and didn't know anything about other than the general outline of a teacher with cancer cooking meth. So I naturally decided to give BB a try. Holy Cow. That was a FAR SUPERIOR series all the way around. Heck, after watching it all the way through, I immediately went back and watched all 62 episodes again. It was that great.

And then I gave Better Call Saul a try. (Haven't seen any of the current series yet though.) Good but not up to BB levels.

And just the other day, I decided to finish up the final seven episodes of Ozark. And let me tell you, it was difficult as hell to remember what the hell the was going on. Who killed who? Who's mad at who and why? Well, I watched the finale tonight and was just thankful it was over. The story was just getting silly. Not gonna spoil anything, but, well, it was pretty lame.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I was really late to the game with this series. I didn't start watching it at all til around January. Didn't know a thing about it. The first couple seasons were very good. It started going off the rails a bit when they introduced Ben. And then it just started getting kinda silly. Wyatt and Darlene? WTF. 

I heard it compared to Breaking Bad, another series I hadn't seen and didn't know anything about other than the general outline of a teacher with cancer cooking meth. So I naturally decided to give BB a try. Holy Cow. That was a FAR SUPERIOR series all the way around. Heck, after watching it all the way through, I immediately went back and watched all 62 episodes again. It was that great.

And then I gave Better Call Saul a try. (Haven't seen any of the current series yet though.) Good but not up to BB levels.

And just the other day, I decided to finish up the final seven episodes of Ozark. And let me tell you, it was difficult as hell to remember what the hell the was going on. Who killed who? Who's mad at who and why? Well, I watched the finale tonight and was just thankful it was over. The story was just getting silly. Not gonna spoil anything, but, well, it was pretty lame.

It’s good.  Would still rank it behind The Sopranos, Oz, BB, Justified

[HazletonEagle]

7 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I was really late to the game with this series. I didn't start watching it at all til around January. Didn't know a thing about it. The first couple seasons were very good. It started going off the rails a bit when they introduced Ben. And then it just started getting kinda silly. Wyatt and Darlene? WTF. 

I heard it compared to Breaking Bad, another series I hadn't seen and didn't know anything about other than the general outline of a teacher with cancer cooking meth. So I naturally decided to give BB a try. Holy Cow. That was a FAR SUPERIOR series all the way around. Heck, after watching it all the way through, I immediately went back and watched all 62 episodes again. It was that great.

And then I gave Better Call Saul a try. (Haven't seen any of the current series yet though.) Good but not up to BB levels.

And just the other day, I decided to finish up the final seven episodes of Ozark. And let me tell you, it was difficult as hell to remember what the hell the was going on. Who killed who? Who's mad at who and why? Well, I watched the finale tonight and was just thankful it was over. The story was just getting silly. Not gonna spoil anything, but, well, it was pretty lame.

Also check out bloodline.

[homerpat]

On 5/16/2022 at 9:55 PM, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I was really late to the game with this series. I didn't start watching it at all til around January. Didn't know a thing about it. The first couple seasons were very good. It started going off the rails a bit when they introduced Ben. And then it just started getting kinda silly. Wyatt and Darlene? WTF. 

I heard it compared to Breaking Bad, another series I hadn't seen and didn't know anything about other than the general outline of a teacher with cancer cooking meth. So I naturally decided to give BB a try. Holy Cow. That was a FAR SUPERIOR series all the way around. Heck, after watching it all the way through, I immediately went back and watched all 62 episodes again. It was that great.

And then I gave Better Call Saul a try. (Haven't seen any of the current series yet though.) Good but not up to BB levels.

And just the other day, I decided to finish up the final seven episodes of Ozark. And let me tell you, it was difficult as hell to remember what the hell the was going on. Who killed who? Who's mad at who and why? Well, I watched the finale tonight and was just thankful it was over. The story was just getting silly. Not gonna spoil anything, but, well, it was pretty lame.

Saul is just different. Yes it’s a prequel to BB but a completely different tone and different type of character study. I honestly enjoy BCS more than BB, but it’s more 1 vs 1A. The writing they’ve done on this series not just storyline, but general dialogue is a masters class on how to write a tv drama

[TEW]

On 5/8/2022 at 1:41 AM, LeanMeanGM said:

Predictable is sometimes the best. Walt was a "bad guy that won” also. He got his revenge on everyone that wronged him while dying only because of his own doing. Jesse finally escaped everyone that was keeping him hostage for years. Skylar finally got the confession from Walt that everything had nothing to do with family, it was all his selfish intentions. 

Ozark didn’t didn’t make nearly as much sense imo. Jonah’s arc alone from him hating his mom because of Ben and them being upset with him laundering to everyone just suddenly being fine with everything during the final scene is a stretch. 

Walt definitely didn’t win. He lost his family, he lost his legitimate company, lost his meth business, lost most of his fortune, lost his battle with cancer, and ultimately he lost his life. Killing the gang that robbed him wasn’t a win. Revenge, sure, but it wasn’t a win. The whole point of his story arc was that breaking bad doesn’t pay off in the end. Completely different than OZARK.

Jesse didn’t win either. He lost his aunt’s house, lost his friends, had both of his girl friends murdered, was tortured for god knows how long, and had to abandon everything he knew for a fresh start. And let’s not pretend he wasn’t OK with the drug dealing. He was. He was cool with it as much as Walt was. 

Jonah’s arc was sloppy, I’ll give you that, but in the end of course a kid is going to side with his parents rather than see his family go to jail.

On 5/17/2022 at 5:06 AM, HazletonEagle said:

Also check out bloodline.

That first season was fantastic.

[LeanMeanGM]

21 minutes ago, TEW said:

Walt definitely didn’t win. He lost his family, he lost his legitimate company, lost his meth business, lost most of his fortune, lost his battle with cancer, and ultimately he lost his life. Killing the gang that robbed him wasn’t a win. Revenge, sure, but it wasn’t a win. The whole point of his story arc was that breaking bad doesn’t pay off in the end. Completely different than OZARK.

Jesse didn’t win either. He lost his aunt’s house, lost his friends, had both of his girl friends murdered, was tortured for god knows how long, and had to abandon everything he knew for a fresh start. And let’s not pretend he wasn’t OK with the drug dealing. He was. He was cool with it as much as Walt was. 

Jonah’s arc was sloppy, I’ll give you that, but in the end of course a kid is going to side with his parents rather than see his family go to jail.

That first season was fantastic.

I strongly disagree on Walt. The show is called "Breaking Bad”. He was at the point he didn’t give an ish about his family, company, cancer etc. In a general sense, I agree he didn’t win, but in his mind he absolutely did. Even from a viewers perspective he hardly faced any type of real consequences for his actions. 

And I didn’t mean to imply Jesse "won” in any sense, just that his arc had a complete ending and the way the series ended for him made sense.

Pretty much every character in BB had some some sort of closure, minus Jesse who ended up having a spin off movie. Ozark left a lot of loose ends.

[TEW]

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I strongly disagree on Walt. The show is called "Breaking Bad”. He was at the point he didn’t give an ish about his family, company, cancer etc. In a general sense, I agree he didn’t win, but in his mind he absolutely did. Even from a viewers perspective he hardly faced any type of real consequences for his actions. 

And I didn’t mean to imply Jesse "won” in any sense, just that his arc had a complete ending and the way the series ended for him made sense.

Pretty much every character in BB had some some sort of closure, minus Jesse who ended up having a spin off movie. Ozark left a lot of loose ends.

Wow — seriously?

His entire family hates him, including literally "Walt Junior” (AKA he hates himself). His brother in law was murdered. His name goes down in infamy as a brutal drug lord who could have been an innovative scientist.

Walt lost everything over his ego. His life and legacy left in ruins. He was a man dying of cancer in the woods who literally had to pay a stranger tens of thousands of dollars to play cards with him because literally no one on planet earth wanted anything to do with him.

[LeanMeanGM]

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Wow — seriously?

His entire family hates him, including literally "Walt Junior” (AKA he hates himself). His brother in law was murdered. His name goes down in infamy as a brutal drug lord who could have been an innovative scientist.

Walt lost everything over his ego. His life and legacy left in ruins. He was a man dying of cancer in the woods who literally had to pay a stranger tens of thousands of dollars to play cards with him because literally no one on planet earth wanted anything to do with him.

Again, he was past all that. He didn’t give an ish about Hank, it took him years to even tell anyone where his body was and that’s only because he told Skylar for leverage against the DEA. He didn’t give an ish about being a scientist. He was proud of being a drug lord and being the one who was able to produce the best meth in the world. He said himself he was "in an empire business”. The final song was literally about being with his love, "baby blue”. 

The Walt you are talking about died in Season 1. To a normal, everyday person, you are correct. In Walt’s perspective, he absolutely won. 

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

9 hours ago, homerpat said:

Saul is just different. Yes it’s a prequel to BB but a completely different tone and different type of character study. I honestly enjoy BCS more than BB, but it’s more 1 vs 1A. The writing they’ve done on this series not just storyline, but general dialogue is a masters class on how to write a tv drama

Saul is a good show. And I agree that it's a different tone. I've enjoyed it. BTW, how/where can I find the current series?

[Kz!]

Ozark's first couple of seasons were fantastic. Then, it just became crazy repetitive for me and started to become progressively less and less and less realistic as the story advanced.  I mean, murdering cops, murdering cartel bosses, a pharmaceutical boss trying to get a trailer park girl to run an opium farm by herself. As others have mentioned, Jonah's story arc was incredibly sloppy, and I didn't think the daughter's was much better. Not a complete trainwreck like his, but uninspired. There were also moments in the final season when the dialogue was straight up cringe. Like Marty would make a joke when something serious or life-threatening was happening. The really weird coffee shop scene when Ruth got a super-unrealistic pep-talk from a retired rapper. 

Loved the first two seasons, but by the end it had kind of become a chore to watch, and I was glad when it ended.

[JBENT87]

7 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Again, he was past all that. He didn’t give an ish about Hank, it took him years to even tell anyone where his body was and that’s only because he told Skylar for leverage against the DEA. He didn’t give an ish about being a scientist. He was proud of being a drug lord and being the one who was able to produce the best meth in the world. He said himself he was "in an empire business”. The final song was literally about being with his love, "baby blue”. 

The Walt you are talking about died in Season 1. To a normal, everyday person, you are correct. In Walt’s perspective, he absolutely won. 

pretty wild that you think this outcome was as black and white as this, in that Walt "won." He didn't win crap. You listed off a handful of things that he "didn't give an ish about," what about Skylar, Walt Jr and Holly living in the projects bc they don't have any money left? Skylar needing to work two jobs including driving taxis, which takes her away from the kids which undoubtedly is going to have an effect on them, growing up now without both parents around - not exactly like she can drop them off at Aunt Marie and Uncle Hanks anymore either since one of them is 6 feet under due to Walt. God knows what kinda mental state Marie is in bc of that. 

You're acting like Walt is dying in peace bc of his accomplishments he made in the drug business with his "baby blue." He sold his soul and died in physical agony via a gun shot wound and cancer that is spreading all over his body. Sure, "he did it because he liked it" and was "good at it." Doesn't mean he's proud of where all of this ended up. He lost control and it ruined literally everything. He definitely feels regret and sorrow for that. 

You said the family man Walt died in Season 1. Heisenberg Walt died when he admitted to Skylar the truth in her project apartment and how he did it all for him. He didn't die as evil, arrogant Heisenberg. That was a final form which blended everything together. 

[LeanMeanGM]

21 minutes ago, JBENT87 said:

pretty wild that you think this outcome was as black and white as this, in that Walt "won." He didn't win crap. You listed off a handful of things that he "didn't give an ish about," what about Skylar, Walt Jr and Holly living in the projects bc they don't have any money left? Skylar needing to work two jobs including driving taxis, which takes her away from the kids which undoubtedly is going to have an effect on them, growing up now without both parents around - not exactly like she can drop them off at Aunt Marie and Uncle Hanks anymore either since one of them is 6 feet under due to Walt. God knows what kinda mental state Marie is in bc of that. 

You're acting like Walt is dying in peace bc of his accomplishments he made in the drug business with his "baby blue." He sold his soul and died in physical agony via a gun shot wound and cancer that is spreading all over his body. Sure, "he did it because he liked it" and was "good at it." Doesn't mean he's proud of where all of this ended up. He lost control and it ruined literally everything. He definitely feels regret and sorrow for that. 

You said the family man Walt died in Season 1. Heisenberg Walt died when he admitted to Skylar the truth in her project apartment and how he did it all for him. He didn't die as evil, arrogant Heisenberg. That was a final form which blended everything together. 

The final scene is not someone who regrets everything he did and where he is at in his life. You can tell with his smirk as he's looking at the equipment he's proud. He knew he was dying anyway because the cancer came back, so he went out on his terms, taking out Lydia, Jack and the gang and Todd in the process.

He also left $10M of cash for Walt Jr/Holly/Skylar through that trust fund he set up with Gretchen. 

Read what Gilligan said about the ending

Quote

And I think more importantly for him than that is the fact that he accomplishes what he set out to accomplish way back in the first episode: He leaves his family just a ton of money. Of course, Walt for years now has been looking through the wrong end of the telescope. … For years now, he thought if he makes his family financially sound — that’s really all he has to do as a man, as a provider, and as a father. They’re going to walk away with just shy of 10 million in cash, because of Walt’s machinations with Gretchen (Jessica Hecht) and Elliott (Adam Godley). But on the other hand, the family emotionally is scarred forever. So it’s a real mixed message at the end. Walt has failed on so many levels, but he has managed to do the one thing he set out to do, which is a victory. He has managed to make his family financially sound in his absence, and that was really the only thing he set out to do in that first episode. So, mission accomplished.”

Quote

So it could be argued instead that he did get away with it because he never got the cuffs put on him. But he’s expired before the cops show up. They’re rolling in with the sirens going and the lights flashing and he just doesn’t give a damn. He’s patting his Precious, in Lord of the Rings terms. He’s with the thing he seems to love the most in the world, which is his work and his meth lab and he just doesn’t care about being caught because he knows he’s on the way out. So it could be argued that he pays for his sins at the end or it could just as easily be argued that he gets away with it.”

So in his mind he:

1. Set up his family for life

2. Got revenge

3. Didn't get arrested or face direct punishment for his drug empire

4. Died  with his "Precious", the thing he loved most, per the creator of the show

You don't think he thinks he won?

I'm not saying from a casual viewers perspective or state of mind. From his. 

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

8 hours ago, Kz! said:

Loved the first two seasons, but by the end it had kind of become a chore to watch, and I was glad when it ended.

Spot on. My thoughts exactly.

[hputenis]

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The final scene is not someone who regrets everything he did and where he is at in his life. You can tell with his smirk as he's looking at the equipment he's proud. He knew he was dying anyway because the cancer came back, so he went out on his terms, taking out Lydia, Jack and the gang and Todd in the process.

He also left $10M of cash for Walt Jr/Holly/Skylar through that trust fund he set up with Gretchen. 

Read what Gilligan said about the ending

So in his mind he:

1. Set up his family for life

2. Got revenge

3. Didn't get arrested or face direct punishment for his drug empire

4. Died  with his "Precious", the thing he loved most, per the creator of the show

You don't think he thinks he won?

I'm not saying from a casual viewers perspective or state of mind. From his. 

I could read intelligent opinions about this show back and forth without ever watching it 50x and know it's the best show ever.  This is fantastic!  

[homerpat]

10 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Saul is a good show. And I agree that it's a different tone. I've enjoyed it. BTW, how/where can I find the current series?

Final season?  Just AMC. Not sure but think Netflix has earlier seasons. 

[LeanMeanGM]

1 hour ago, hputenis said:

I could read intelligent opinions about this show back and forth without ever watching it 50x and know it's the best show ever.  This is fantastic!  

Best no context tweet ever. And it’s still not deleted! 

[NOTW]

Just finished the finale. Surprised no one said this about the ending:

 

They didn't show Jonah actually shoot anything/anyone they did a Sopranos cut to black. You could think Jonah shot the urn, so the evidence would fall on the ground, easy to wash away. Just before, I thought why don't Wendy & Marty just attack him, take the urn and dump it in the water. 

[NOTW]

Very disappointing part 2 of the final season.  I watched both parts of the final season together this week, my wife had never seen it so we started from season 1 so everything was fresh from binging it through.

Problems:

• Spoiler

   

  • Adding the PI character, the grandfather and Camille towards the end and focusing too much on them. 
  • The grandfather and searching for Ben story went on waaay too long.  That could have been handled in a 2-3 episode storyline to start season 4 and then move on.
  • The teens were involved in the business, then all of a sudden when grandpa gets the petition they want to leave, that came out of nowhere.  Again, that should have all been done to start season 4 after Ben died and resolve it to move on to what we really care about: the cartel and the money laundering business.
  • Mia (the FBI agent) should have been the one more involved in the end, not the PI guy coming back.  There would have been more emotional weight behind that since Marty liked her and wouldn't want to hurt her, while Wendy would want to get rid of her to not ruin their plans.  
  • Adding the church group, grandpas cougar wife hitting on Sam was just odd and out of place especially in the final episodes when you really just want to see Marty, Wendy, Ruth and the Cartel.
  • Wendy checking herself into the center was out of place for her, she was soooo driven and scheming for a few seasons and then was risking everything like that.  Once again, getting the kids and grandpa issue out of the way earlier would have made more sense rather than eat up time on that in the last couple episodes. 
  • Ruth's death was rushed.  Also, Camille is hiding in the woods in a gown, Ruth sees the car and obviously knows it's a Cartel black SUV and goes up with no weapon.  She's smarter than that.  That whole scene was dumb.  Also the buildup was obvious especially Rachael hyping her up that she deserves everything.
  • Three - Ruth's other cousin.  What happens to him now, he didn't even get screen time.  his entire family is all now dead.  Does he inherit Ruth's money?
  • Visions of dead characters is never interesting to me.  So many shows waste screen time doing that and the person has a conversation with the dead loved one.  If you're going to do that, do it briefly for the character to get an encouragement and move on, don't keep doing it over and over.
  • Marty just let Ruth and Rachael take over and didn't fight them on the casino, the thing he and Wendy worked so hard to build?  That was out of character and made no sense.  
  • Bringing Rachael back was odd, Ruth goes all the way to Miami to recruit her just because she was hurt by Marty in the past?  And she leaves beautiful sunny Miami for that?  Then all of a sudden they're best friends and living together?  Throwing her into the final season was strange.  
  • They made Omar go from interesting to useless in prison real fast, Camille was not interesting and came out of nowhere.  I knew seeing her on screen she would take over because she was the same role in Queen of the South, even the same character name.
  • The end should have had a twist where Omar and Marty had a plan that turned on Camille or something interesting.

   

   

[mikemack8]

10 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Very disappointing part 2 of the final season.  I watched both parts of the final season together this week, my wife had never seen it so we started from season 1 so everything was fresh from binging it through.

Problems:

•   Reveal hidden contents

   

  • Adding the PI character, the grandfather and Camille towards the end and focusing too much on them. 
  • The grandfather and searching for Ben story went on waaay too long.  That could have been handled in a 2-3 episode storyline to start season 4 and then move on.
  • The teens were involved in the business, then all of a sudden when grandpa gets the petition they want to leave, that came out of nowhere.  Again, that should have all been done to start season 4 after Ben died and resolve it to move on to what we really care about: the cartel and the money laundering business.
  • Mia (the FBI agent) should have been the one more involved in the end, not the PI guy coming back.  There would have been more emotional weight behind that since Marty liked her and wouldn't want to hurt her, while Wendy would want to get rid of her to not ruin their plans.  
  • Adding the church group, grandpas cougar wife hitting on Sam was just odd and out of place especially in the final episodes when you really just want to see Marty, Wendy, Ruth and the Cartel.
  • Wendy checking herself into the center was out of place for her, she was soooo driven and scheming for a few seasons and then was risking everything like that.  Once again, getting the kids and grandpa issue out of the way earlier would have made more sense rather than eat up time on that in the last couple episodes. 
  • Ruth's death was rushed.  Also, Camille is hiding in the woods in a gown, Ruth sees the car and obviously knows it's a Cartel black SUV and goes up with no weapon.  She's smarter than that.  That whole scene was dumb.  Also the buildup was obvious especially Rachael hyping her up that she deserves everything.
  • Three - Ruth's other cousin.  What happens to him now, he didn't even get screen time.  his entire family is all now dead.  Does he inherit Ruth's money?
  • Visions of dead characters is never interesting to me.  So many shows waste screen time doing that and the person has a conversation with the dead loved one.  If you're going to do that, do it briefly for the character to get an encouragement and move on, don't keep doing it over and over.
  • Marty just let Ruth and Rachael take over and didn't fight them on the casino, the thing he and Wendy worked so hard to build?  That was out of character and made no sense.  
  • Bringing Rachael back was odd, Ruth goes all the way to Miami to recruit her just because she was hurt by Marty in the past?  And she leaves beautiful sunny Miami for that?  Then all of a sudden they're best friends and living together?  Throwing her into the final season was strange.  
  • They made Omar go from interesting to useless in prison real fast, Camille was not interesting and came out of nowhere.  I knew seeing her on screen she would take over because she was the same role in Queen of the South, even the same character name.
  • The end should have had a twist where Omar and Marty had a plan that turned on Camille or something interesting.

   

   

Regarding the part about the cougar wife

Spoiler

The way they laid it on thick with her and Sam, I thought for sure those two were gonna bang  Then when nothing happened it was like OK, so that was kinda pointless

 

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, mikemack8 said:

Regarding the part about the cougar wife

  Hide contents

The way they laid it on thick with her and Sam, I thought for sure those two were gonna bang  Then when nothing happened it was like OK, so that was kinda pointless

 

She was gonna show him the light alright! Hallelujah.