18 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

On paper right now I actually think the Eagles are worse on defense than the team they ended the season with.

Cox and Reddick are bigger losses than anyone they’ve gained on defense. They lost their two best defensive players.

Huff, at least for 2024 is a downgrade from Reddick. Whoever replaces Cox’s roster spot on the 53 will be a downgrade from Cox.

I actually think Devin White in 2023 was a worse player than Zach Cunningham. White was really bad in 2023 for the Bucs. Now White has higher upside and maybe Fangio gets that out of him, but it wasn’t like he was playing for some bum defensive mind in Tampa. Bowles is a really good defensive coach.

CJGJ is a clear upgrade at safety. That’s the one area they definitely improved.

Baun and Burks… eh. As it stands right now they’re total JAGs.

Hall as a slot corner is a downgrade from Maddox. Rodgers would be too if that’s where they use him.

Obviously goes without saying there’s plenty of time to make moves but they came into the off-season with a massive task to fix the defense and on paper I actually think it’s worse. The biggest upgrade isn’t even a player it’s Fangio,

I think you’re burying the lede here. 

11 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I think a lot of that comes down to context. 

Reddick in 2023 was not Reddick in 2022. He just wasn’t. A part of the reason we collapsed at the end of the year was he couldn’t get to Lock and Murray and Taylor like he was the previous year. Due to injury, he didn’t have a sack in the first month. And then he didn’t have a sack in the final month either. What is a DE/LB who doesn’t play the run well and can’t cover when he isn’t getting to the QB? It’s not an easy decision, but now we have 14m$ next year to play with. 

No one player is replacing Cox. Milton and Carter are going to get more snaps. Williams to me has always been underutilized here because of the talent ahead of him. If Carter and Davis develop as we expect, we’re gonna have a better DT room than we did last year. We’ll pick up a cheap vet to fill in the snaps in the back end, or even Ojomo will take a step. But I’m reasonably confident we won’t see a drop off there. Cox was "good” his last year, impressively so. But he was no longer "great.” Carter and Williams can make up the difference for "good.”

I have 1 major prediction for the secondary this year: Bradberry isn’t a bad corner, he’s just more dependent on the system than most corners are. He was great in Carolina, bad in NYG, suddenly great in Philly, then okay with Desai in Sept Oct (but a decline from previous All-Pro), and then a disaster with Patricia. Is he forgetting and remembering and forgetting and remembering how to play corner every year? Fangio’s consistency will be good for him. Right now, I believe CJGJ is the slot in the way that Jenkins often was when he was here. Combine that with Isaiah Rodgers and hopefully some development out of Ricks/Ringo, and the goal is it won’t really matter whether Bradberry is good or not next year. 
 

Who knows at the LB position. It could be a disaster again, or some no name UDFA outplays everyone from 2023 and 2024. Probably wouldn’t take a lot to do so.
 

I agree Fangio was our best move this offseason. But I don’t agree the talent on the field is worse. It’s different, but with better potential.

Sticking with the context POV, I think Reddick in the middle and most of 2023 was better than the Reddick of 2022. He has 11 sacks in the middle 10 games. If he started the season without a cast I think that is probably more. The major difference between the two seasons was the final month. But when the entire defense fell apart and everyone stopped playing well(including Carter and Sweat) I don’t know how we can’t just chalk that up to a terrible situation. 

Jalen Carter was our best defensive player last year. A big reason the defense collapsed is that he hurt his ankle and he went from all-pro level to merely good.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think you’re burying the lede here. 

Not intentionally. Fangio will help a lot, but I was hoping they would have made significant upgrades across the defense in terms of personnel and I don’t think they did. Their back 7 was horrendous and I don’t think they’ve improved it at all.

I’d rather not have a defense that requires the coordinator to work magic to be respectable.

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Jalen Carter was our best defensive player last year. A big reason the defense collapsed is that he hurt his ankle and he went from all-pro level to merely good.

Plus he looked tired at the end which was to be expected 

Looking at the defensive gains and losses…

* Losing Cox matters, but he was aging. While he played well last year, the cliff was coming. Carter should continue to ascend and be an upgrade to what Cox provided last year. He just needs to sustain his high level of play. I think he hit the rookie wall last year, and even in doing so commanded more attention than Cox. Davis absolutely has to be in better shape. He hasn’t peaked by any means. Williams is probably one of if not the best third DT in the league. He also has untapped upside. 

* I expect Huff to be a downgrade from Reddick, but not enough of one that it will make a significant difference. That’s not to say there isn’t any risk in projecting Huff with more snaps. Sweat should be better than last year as well. I’m not sure what to expect out of Smith or Baun. I really didn’t like much of anything I saw from Smith. Baun is intriguing as a hand-picked Fangio guy, but he’s just depth. Graham won’t play enough to matter beyond the locker room. 

* At linebacker, I didn’t hide my disdain for Devin White over the years. He’s nothing special, but he’s absolutely better than Zach Cunningham. The guy couldn’t move. He couldn’t even blitz because he moves in slow motion. White at least is shot out of a cannon. We desperately needed more athleticism in the back seven. I don’t think he’s a difference maker by any means, but he should make more splash plays than Cunningham. Dean has to stay healthy, but even if he’s just a guy, that’s a step up from Morrow. 

* At corner, Slay is a year older and we can expect his play to erode some more. If he can be "good,” that’s a win. Bradberry, I’ve said before, might fit Fangio’s defense fairly well. He’s smart and is very good at switch coverages. But can he move at all? If not, it’s Ringo time. I trust Fangio to make the corners look a lot better this year opposite Slay. I’m intrigued by Hall at nickel. The Eagles seem optimistic with Rodgers. Kempski seems to think Hall is depth only, so there should be another shoe to drop. Maybe Maddox?

* CJGJ is an upgrade at safety if he can stay on the field. I’m not his biggest fan, but whatever. I think Blankenship is underrated by many in here. He’s not a plus player, but he outplays his cap number, which is valuable. I loved the Brown pick, but he’s a complete unknown. 

* And burying the lede, we just got a massive, massive upgrade at DC. It can’t be said enough. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think you’re burying the lede here. 

Agree.  The first, and most important step in having a good defense is not the talent, but rather the scheme and perhaps even more importantly, having the scheme being understood by those executing it on the field.  Fangio is supposed to be that guy.  We'll see.  After that comes having the talent to implement that scheme.

This can be flipped around and have a scheme that fits the talent... but either way, the scheme has to be aligned to the talent.   

I think Fangio can definitely improve the defense from the disaster it was at the end of the year, while they were in some weird quasi-Fangio style, but being infused with Patricia's influence and a Belichickian style.  I think by the end of the year, the players were confused, dissatisfied and exhausted.  And the result was the lifeless efforts we saw down the stretch.  

I think with Fangio, there will be a singular focus and a singular set of rules for the defenders to learn and execute.   As a result, we should see a more unified style of play and that should improve them from the disaster they were in the last half of the year, where they were basically the worst defense in the year.   I'm not predicting, nor expecting them to become a top 5 defense, but after last year, I'll settle for a middling defense.   Get a few timely turnovers and we are in business.

And then the massive turnaround for this team would need to be really accomplished by the offense... and bringing in Moore allows me to be optimistic about this offense rediscovering itself as a top 5 offense.   And that combination could be enough, with timely playmaking both offensively and defensively to take this team all the way.   We'll see.

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

dont forget, they list Huff as a DE.

But yes, as it stands now, he is the only DE on the roster next offseason. 

I think if Verse gets in to the mid-late teens they can make a move up for him.

If not, maybe theyd like to trade down for Robinson. 

If Verse falls you take him. But if he's not there, I think trading down a few picks and taking Chop is just as good. I don't think there's a huge talent gap between the two players and I'd almost prefer Chop Robinson and maybe getting a 3rd rounder back. He just turned 21 and the Eagles could build a tremendous young talented core on defense.

Just look at the potential starters and top reserves. None of these guys have hit their prime yet either. Some of these guys might end up as JAGs but having JAGs is OK if you have studs at other positions. But, there is some serious talent here under the age of 24.

Josh Sweat- 27

Nolan Smith-23

Kelee Ringo- 22 in June

Jalen Carter- 23 next week

Bryce Huff- 26 in a few weeks

Jordan Davis- 24

Milton Williams- 25 next week

CJGJ- 26

Sydney Brown- 24

Reed Blankenship- 25

Eli Ricks- 23 when season starts

Devin White- 26

Nakobe Dean- 23

Moro Ojomo- 23 when season starts

 

So I have a cap question to the Capaleers on here....You have Kelce and Cox retiring, Bradberry and now Reddick.....I know (or think) you get 2 Post June 1st designations.......between these 4......what is the best way to use these designations not only to create cap space this year, but in '25?  

If I understand, we almost have to use them on Cox and Kelce and that would free up around 3mm this year getting them off the books.  Do we keep Bradberry on the team and just cut him June 1 or just keep him?  And now with the Reddick trade, I don't think we'd have any other designations to use???

@we_gotta_believe

You asked me pre-free agency what my expectation was for the defense. After seeing everything shake out, I think we’ll be around 20th or so in DVOA. The defense didn’t upgrade in talent, but I’m hopeful that some of the young players progress and Fangio’s competence pushes this defense to a slightly below average. If Carter makes the leap and Huff is the real deal, there’s upside for more. 

3 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

So I have a cap question to the Capaleers on here....You have Kelce and Cox retiring, Bradberry and now Reddick.....I know (or think) you get 2 Post June 1st designations.......between these 4......what is the best way to use these designations not only to create cap space this year, but in '25?  

Reddick doesn't count in this equation anymore.  His money for 2025 accelerates up to 2024, so he has no cost for 2025.  He's essentially a net zero change for 2024 (due to the $1M bonus he got) - and costs about $300k more in 2024, but no cost in 2025.

So, I think it comes down to Kelce, Cox and Bradberry (if he's cut/traded).  

Cap space this year is probably cap space next year, unlike other leagues, you can roll over cap space in the NFL, so Howie stockpiles current cap space to give him optionality, then if no good opportunities arise to use it, he rolls it over to the next season.

This team has plenty of talent on defense, it could use a stud ILB and S, but who couldn't?

Carter, Williams, Davis, Ojomo, nice core of defensive front three.

Sweat, Huff, Smith, some young athletic edge rushers who'll fight for a rotation spot, Graham will play 250 snaps, many at DT on passing downs.

The LBs may still be mediocre, but they're much faster and more athletic, at least there's upside, not watching limited veterans wear down.

The real key is which young DBs step up, Ringo, Ricks, Jobe, Rodgers, Hall, McCollum, Garner.

The fact that Howie stuck with these guys (while dumping all the young WRs and bringing in new prospects and players) says they're higher on this group than fans.

The only question that matters is will it be good enough to win a Super Bowl. I’m hoping Howie has some other moves up his sleeve. Hopefully at corner or safety. Still holding out hope for Simmons.

15 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

@we_gotta_believe

You asked me pre-free agency what my expectation was for the defense. After seeing everything shake out, I think we’ll be around 20th or so in DVOA. The defense didn’t upgrade in talent, but I’m hopeful that some of the young players progress and Fangio’s competence pushes this defense to a slightly below average. If Carter makes the leap and Huff is the real deal, there’s upside for more. 

20th in DVOA is good enough to win the division. Then in the playoffs, anything can happen provided our good players are healthy. 

Fangio with his gameplan will win us at least one game next year that we probably shouldn't win. That's huge. 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The real key is which young DBs step up, Ringo, Ricks, Jobe, Rodgers, Hall, McCollum, Garner.

The fact that Howie stuck with these guys (while dumping all the young WRs and bringing in new prospects and players) says they're higher on this group than fans.

How do you figure?  The DBs that were here last year (Ringo, Ricks, Jobe, Rodgers, McCollum, Garner) were all under contract already and cheap, with nothing consequential in guarantees moving forward.  None of them got new deals, that I am aware of, but rather are still just cheap bodies to bring to camp.  There's no reason to get rid of them yet (camp allows for 90 players), but certainly it appears that a more likely scenario is that the Eagles will invest draft capital at the position. And given their current cap cost investment at the position (Slay and Bradberry cost a ton), their hands were tied regarding any financial investment in a FA this offseason, meaning the draft was the only viable option for improving the CB position.

Meanwhile, 'all the young WRs' you refer to are guys that I can't even think of.   Are you referring to Zaccheus and Watkins?  Both of whom were FAs, and the team had no reason to bring them back, but had to make a decision.  

48 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I really don’t think Reddick would have been a major disruption he’s always been a good guy and a good teammate. He’s not TO.

And the money they saved for 2025 isn’t 40 million. It’s not the difference in the Eagles being crippled or being in good shape. They save a decent amount of money, but it’s totally operable. Life is about trade offs. They chose moderate cap savings for 2025 and a 3rd round pick over Reddick. Let’s just call it what it is.

And we’ll see if they’re right. The problem is if they aren’t no one will be held accountable, because no one in this front office ever is. Sirianni will be the one who will take the fall for it.

 

We will see because given the history of this FO we should only have to wait a week or two before they start leaking things to the beat writers now that Reddick is gone.  They must have strongly believed that Reddick was not going to be a happy camper it would create an issue this season.  And in that sense you have to stop thinking about the cap hit of his current deal and those savings and thi k about the cap hits of the deal he is going to end up signing eith the Jets.  He's obviously looking for Bosa money, as he should be trying to get. 

If the Eagles underperform this season then Sirianni should take the hit.  He has the most talented offense in the league at his disposal and a defense that has enough pieces where it shouldn't be as bad as it had become down the stretch last season, even without Reddick now.

I would probably view this offseason differently if 2023 never happened. Howie was so bad in 2023 it really has soured me on him. Remember, people were trying to justify the 2023 moves just like people are trying to justify the 2024 moves.

Come April last year for me it was like "So... is this the plan at safety and LB or are they actually going to acquire someone who can make a difference???" And I was patient and held out hope and it just never came. They went into a season with Blankenship and Edmunds at safety and Dean and Cunningham at LB. By the way, Cunningham and Jack were guys they signed in Fing August. It was totally inexplicable. Just a horrendous offseason by Howie last year.

Now maybe this offseason will be different. And I don't think it's at the level of negligence of 2023. But just like last year, just to a lesser extent, I'm once again sitting here right around April saying to myself "Where are the major upgrades at specific areas of the defense coming from?" Maybe this year it'll actually work out. But again, after last year didn't and failed so spectacularly I'm not holding my breath.

I just wanted some high floor fixes even if they had low ceilings. I thought if this defense needed anything it was dependability and some stability. Guys who may not wow you, but who are technically sound, who are solid, who won't cost you games. They've seen to go with the complete opposite approach and went all in on the boom or bust signings. And when you make those, you better be right.

19 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The real key is which young DBs step up, Ringo, Ricks, Jobe, Rodgers, Hall, McCollum, Garner.

There are only 3 of those (Ringo, Ricks and Rodgers) who have any real shot at contributing. The rest are bodies. Rodgers may not even be reinstated.

I think our outside CB situation is fine for 2024 (not for 2025+). Our slot CB situation is dire. Worst in the NFL. We need TWO more guys there. And if one of them is CJGJ, we have no starting safety. 

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

There are only 3 of those (Ringo, Ricks and Rodgers) who have any real shot at contributing. The rest are bodies. Rodgers may not even be reinstated.

I think our outside CB situation is fine for 2024 (not for 2025+). Our slot CB situation is dire. Worst in the NFL. We need TWO more guys there. And if one of them is CJGJ, we have no starting safety. 

That would be the nice feature of bringing on Simmons, Fangio could run a heavy nickel 60% of the time (ie play CGJ as a slot, and Reed as the SS).

2 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

I don't understand the assumptions that Reddick will get a huge FA contract, if he gets to FA.  He is a good player, not great, will be 31 on the first year of his next contract.

A comparable FA DE contract from 2024:

Arik Armstead- 30 years old- 3 years $43.5 million, with it more likely being a 2 year $29 million deal.  $28 million guaranteed.

 

No reason to pay an Edge 30+ million a year.  They don’t make enough impact on a game to game basis to warrant that kind of money, imo.   Maybe low to mid 20’s for a guy that has 15+ sacks every year and has done it consistently every year of his career.

 

DT, on the other hand is a different story.  If you have a DT that averages close to double digit sacks and is tough against the run, can play every down - he’s likely worth considerably more than a decent Edge, imo. 

Some of you are throwing Reddick to the side way too easily IMO. 

39 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

@we_gotta_believe

You asked me pre-free agency what my expectation was for the defense. After seeing everything shake out, I think we’ll be around 20th or so in DVOA. The defense didn’t upgrade in talent, but I’m hopeful that some of the young players progress and Fangio’s competence pushes this defense to a slightly below average. If Carter makes the leap and Huff is the real deal, there’s upside for more. 

Yea that's basically where I was at after the Fangio announcement and where I'm still at now. I think Fangio will be an improvement (would be pretty hard not to be) but he also wasn't my first, second, or third choice. He needs a certain level of talent and player temperament to have success. And I didn't expect Howie to be able to recreate his offseason from two years ago after realizing his approach is nothing more than "throw ish against the wall and hope that it sticks."

I don't fault anyone for getting excited about Fangio under the presumption that Howie was gonna fill the massive holes at LB and S to make it work, but I never really expected that to be the case. Maybe he changes my mind with a strong draft class or by landing someone like Simmons, but I'm not holding my breath expecting that to happen.

20 minutes ago, RLC said:

There are only 3 of those (Ringo, Ricks and Rodgers) who have any real shot at contributing. The rest are bodies. Rodgers may not even be reinstated.

I think our outside CB situation is fine for 2024 (not for 2025+). Our slot CB situation is dire. Worst in the NFL. We need TWO more guys there. And if one of them is CJGJ, we have no starting safety. 

I guess that depends on how high you are on Ringo... how much you believe Bradberry can rebound from his amazingly terrible season... and how high you are on Slay's decline not accelerating at a faster rate at the age of 33 versus his step back when he was 32.  

 

I place outside CB as one of the most important issues for 2024... and even greater in 2025.  I do not share your optimism for the position based on our current personnel.  I see CB as the most obvious draft focus for April.  Outside in the early rounds... and likely going after a slot in the middle rounds.

1 minute ago, schuy7 said:

Some of you are throwing Reddick to the side way too easily IMO. 

I’m a huge Reddick fan I just don’t think you tie up 30 million per season for any Edge.  Not to mention he could have played out his deal here had he wanted to (with the Eagles likely offering him more in guarantees, slight pay bump, etc. ). 

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

I’m a huge Reddick fan I just don’t think you tie up 30 million per season for any Edge.  Not to mention he could have played out his deal here had he wanted to (with the Eagles likely offering him more in guarantees, slight pay bump, etc. ). 

I would have liked to see him get a little extra money on a short term deal, but I understand it doesn’t always work out so easily. He’s tougher to replace than some realize. He came up big time and time again. The whole team shrunk late last year, not just him.