3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

"Project" is an interesting term.  But, we've seen over the years... going way back, that this team usually drafts with an eye to the future, rather than the immediate moment.  Starting upside, absolutely is the goal, especially early in the draft.  But, they drafted Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown (granted over 20 years ago) knowing that they wouldn't be needed for that season, but would be desperately needed the following years.  Same goes with Westbrook in Round 3 that same year.  He was used exceedingly sparingly that rookie year, mostly as just a kickoff returner, IIRC, not even as punt returner.  The next year, Brian Mitchell moved on, and Westbrook stepped in as punt returner as well, and started to get into the RB rotation (2003 was the '3-headed monster' season, iirc)... and by 2004 he was well established as the most dynamic weapon on offense, even with T.O. on the team.  

This team has always done best when they didn't force things, but took what was there for the taking.   And that's what I am so optimistic about with this draft.  They didn't force a single pick (with the possible exception of Jeremiah Trotter, Jr.).    They let the board fall to them, and took advantage when things broke in their favor.  Mitchell at #22 was something no one saw coming.  Same with Dejean at 40.  Howie likely called around after Round 1 looking for a team that would take exactly what Washington took in trade... Trade up from 50, and trade down from 53... getting 2 picks back, though I they actually got a 3rd pick back as well with a trade up with a pick in Round 5 (turning it into Ainias Smith).

They didn't force themselves into a corner and trade away both 50 and 53 to 33 or 34 and get only Dejean, but instead found good value as he continued to fall.  They didn't panic as only WR and DT were being selected in that range.  And when they jumped up... 4 CBs went in a row.  They dictated the run on CBs, they didn't react to it.   It was masterful by Howie.

 

And then they got the 'lottery ticket' with the 78th pick as part of that trade.   It should have cost Pick 22, 50 and 53 (at least) to get both Mitchell and Dejean.  In fact, if Dejean had been the pick at 22, I don't think a lot of people would have been surprised at all prior to the draft.  So, Howie was playing with house money at that point.  Why not get creative with it?   He turned it into future picks and a boom or bust prospect that might just have great ST value, if nothing else.

 

But, projects in the third round seems like the right spot for the gamble, just as I think its the right value to grab a player that drops due to injury concerns.  There is a chance that they don't return to form, but you have mitigated the risk by lowering the cost.  The Eagles mitigated the risk with Hunt with the number of moves back they did from #78.  As pointed out... that pick became 2 future picks for 2025, Hunt, Shipley and Trotter, Jr.   If ONE of those guys hit... then the trade up and back from 50 and 53 is a stroke of genius.  As it stands now, just the move up for Dejean gets that move no less than a "B" score from me.  It can become an A+ if one of these 3 guys (or the picks next year) turn into someone significant.

I thought the draft was great.  I really liked what they did on day 2.   I was all over that trade move after the combine.    After the combine,  it looked to me like DeJean 22,  which I would have been good with at 22.  And there were players available in the 2nd round who didn't look like they would last until 50 or 53.  I saw 2nd round players gone too early,  and I didn't see players available I really liked at 50 and 53,  and I liked that "split em" move back.  Get one player you really like by moving up, and the other pick becomes a "well, whatever", and that's a win,  because you weren't getting even one player you really liked if you stayed put.   With a couple days of hindsight,  I don't think DeJean lasts until 50,  and I don't see players I like at 50 or 53 who were not DeJean.   Back then I did type a bunch of words about sitting and biting your nails a little bit until the numbers work out right.   

And then skip forward a month or so, to the draft,  and it was DeJean,  and not a Xavier WR who is being traded up for.   First round goes similar to previous years,   this time instead of trading up,  the DBs were not going,  and by sitting tight and biting the nails,  the Eagles had the choice of all the DBs,  and took Mitchell,  who was considered better by various consensus mock drafts.   2023,  the Eagles took the consensus Eagles pick (Nolan Smith) with their second pick,  and the first pick had similarities to the consensus pick.   Consensus pick was Bulldogs defense.  Actual pick was Bulldogs defense.  2nd pick was consensus pick, also Bulldogs defense.  2024,   consensus pick was defensive back.  Actual pick was defensive back.  2nd pick was consensus pick, also defensive back.   If people who want to use "what the Eagles do" to predict what they do in the future,  a) consensus pick with 2nd pick is what happened,  and b) first pick having commonalities with the consensus pick,  but higher grades / fell to them or traded up is what happened.  

I liked day 1 a lot,  Howie has more choices,  that's good, and got a player at the position of greatest need.  But was still at least a tiny big disappointed that didn't get DeJean.   Mitchell might have been the better pick,  but there was a certain expectation, at the beginning of the day, that there would be DeJean.

Day 2 was great.  Someone here suggested trade up for DeJean and make the secondary great,  and I was all on that,  because the form of the trade was so great,  from a month or so before,  figuring out the whole "get one of what you want" by trading up,  and the numbers,   Jimmy Johnson,  work out so well.   Last year and the year before,  I liked the players that were picked,  but I didn't like that picks were lost in the process.  It was unavoidable,  but I still didn't enjoy that part of it.   Here,  you had a scenario where 50+53 for 2 picks would work well for a lot of draft slots.  A lot of teams have a 2 and a 3, and a lot of teams would rather have 2 2s than a better 2 and a 3.  So, I thought that was a trade that worked for the Eagles and a number of other teams,  from 37 Chargers until DeJean was picked.  I was quite on that trade,   you can look back and see where I typed something like "trade up for DeJean pick now" and within a minute, the trade was announced.   So, that was great.  And what they did after that was great too.  They ended up with Jalyx Hunt.  I didn't have any player I was pounding the table for at that point.   The Eagles were able to do minor trade down type trades which I like a lot.  And then end up with a guy with good combine / pro day numbers at a position that is often expensive.   Really thought day 2 was great.   I also really liked the tv (NFL Network) saying great things about the trade.   

Not everything was perfect,  you can't get every player you want.   Luke McCaffrey went well before he was expected to go (5th round,  he went at the end of the 3rd).  

Day 3 wasn't as perfect as Day 2, (it seemed confusing from the standpoint of the viewer,  Eagles on the clock then trading seemed to happen over and over) but at the end of it,  there were the same number of players drafted by the Eagles, total,  as predicted, and for next year,  a 3rd (that's good right there),  and a 4th and 5th.   Added 1 RB,  2 WR, one was on my Saturday day 3 / udfa get list (Johnny Wilson,  who fell from 4 to 6, so there was good value there,  top blocking WR in college amongst the top WRs, and 6'6 is just generally rare), son of Eagles legend Trotter (good vibes there), and  2 OLs who could cover the backup RG spot, theoretically, or 2 OLs, making sure that RG was covered, and cheaply.   They could have stayed put somewhere in the 3rd and pickup up Haynes or Zinter,  but they didn't,  but it worked out with who they got.   And then, for those who wanted giant RT, there's Becton. People are saying the Eagles had the 3rd best draft, and they aren't adjusting for the number of Jimmy Johnson points teams had going into the draft.   3rd best with the 22nd best pick.  That's really good.   Take that,  3rd best with less than 3rd most resources,   and much specific praise for the trade,   I'm happy.  

Things to do differently next year?  The players and the picks will be in different places.   50+53 to grab the desired pick worked out perfect,  and getting the same exact picks next year might not work out as well.   I like the trading up after some period of time for reflection.   I'd say that it would be good if the Eagles were again in a place to trade up with a target in the 2nd.  I'd say that being in a position to trade up in the 4th would also be a good thing to do.   There's no difference between the rounds on the day,  but top of the day gives you time to think.   Something always happens the day before that isn't exactly the way it was planned, even if you got everything right,  there's a new permutation.  Who would have thought at the beginning of Thursday that Mitchell would be available at 22,  and that DeJean would not be taken in the first round?   I would not have thought either of those things would happen.  So,  unexpected thing happens,  and the Eagles are in a great place to benefit from that.   I'd add the same thinking to the 4th round.     Someone here was discussing the merits of trading up for WR at top of 4/  I didn't have a clear idea of whether that guy was good enough.   I would have been pounding the table for Luke McCaffrey at the top of the 4th, and I would have said "trade up".    I think it would be good for Eagles fans to have this argument Friday night through Saturday morning.   Next time,  maybe we plan to look at possible trade up candidates in that time frame.   I, personally, am not looking very closely at players who have dropped,  I'm more looking at players with lower mock draft database consensus numbers.   Top of the 4th might be a good time to swing for the fences.   The Lions took Giovanni Manu,  who is a project,  in the 4th.   Personally,  when I see Manu,  who was on my Saturday list, and was someone I was hyping as a udfa solution to the "need a giant rt" problem,  taken in the 4th, and not udfa, I'm going to stop calling players like that udfa,  and start giving them rounds.    I was  pounding the table for Grable,  who doesn't have the size of Manu, and he was drafted higher than the consensus MDD, but not as high as Manu.  So,  I'm thinking possible changes would be to be more focused on being in a position to get someone who falls at the top of the 4th or someone who is a swing for the fences type pick,  and I should give number grades to players the mock draft database has.   Maybe the Eagles could go with the idea of trading picks in order to get 3 or 4 banging players.  2 this year,  Mitchell and DeJean.  Some players like Jalyx could be, maybe he falls under that category.  Others all definitely could be but not really guaranteed to be.  So,  maybe have 2s and 3s,  that extra 3 would be good.   But also get some 7ths.  Trade a 3rd and a 4th for a better 3rd and a 7th to move up and get the player you want.   Put udfas in those 7th spots. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Seems disproportionate since I am betting on 2 guys to make the roster instead of one. Seems like in the scenario where Bradberry and Ringo make it, but Rodgers is cut, should be a push. Then I would do it. 

They are two separate bets, each with a 1 month penalty for losing. In your initial post, you said Rodgers was a lock to make the roster and Bradberry was on the outside looking in. If Rodgers gets cut but Bradberry and Ringo make the roster, you lose the first bet and push on the other. Seems pretty straight forward, no?

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

I was pretty skeptical of the Jalyx Hunt pick from the beginning, but count me even more skeptical we're going to see an effective 252-pound safety.

Funny enough, he is a little heavier, but is faster in every category, pretty much, then Kam Chancellor...

This is Van Ginkel's highlights from last year.

This is Hunt's film from a game against Western Kentucky.

I am not sure why there is any debate about this. We drafted the guy on the bottom because he is doing in his game exactly what the guy in the top video is doing.

There’s a lot of B roll in this. I hope it means we’re getting some full length behind the scenes feature on the draft, like the Lions and Colts do. Those are awesome. 

56 minutes ago, TEW said:

Bradberry is more likely to be cut than make the roster in my view.

He was paid his money for the year in advance.  If they had to write out $500K checks every week, it might be different,  but this year had a big, guaranteed, option bonus, and the Eagles paid it.  I think that additionally there's a small salary, probably the lowest possible league minimum.   It seems like perhaps sort sort of platoon or rotation, or something where Bradberry plays some snaps, but not the whole game.   He's been good before, some say that he only plays well in even numbered years, which would be this year. 

Mitchell
DeJean
Slay
Bradberry
Ringo

I think those would be cornerbacks, and there would be more.   From that list of 5,  I think that DeJean could be starting nickel.  Not that that's the only thing, but I only see DeJean as a possible nickel out of that group.   CGJ can play safety or nicke; and it's believed he's a starter?  So maybe he plays one position and DeJean plays the other.   I'm assuming that Slay is the starter.  And then you have Bradberry, Ringo, Mitchell on the other side.   And then that works itself out and maybe one of those 3 is backup to Slay, maybe.   And then Maddox, Rodgers are backups to DeJean.  Bradberry was bad but not terrible last year, and as a rested backup,  I think he'd be solid enough, especially given you've already paid him.   Perhaps, at some point, the Eagles determine that Mitchell and Ringo can handle the stuff, the Eagles trade him,  for something pretty good, to a team with CB injuries.  He's already been paid, so, cheap for team acquiring, so, should get a pretty good pick for a free cheap veteran who, maybe, hopefully,  is doing better this year than last. 

 

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

There’s a lot of B roll in this. I hope it means we’re getting some full length behind the scenes feature on the draft, like the Lions and Colts do. Those are awesome. 

how many of those people we were looking at there are on this board?  How many post here?

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Have you even watched Hunt?

Yes. Have you? And have you watched Fangio’s defense?

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Yes. Have you? And have you watched Fangio’s defense?

Yes. I watched his games against Prairie View A&M and Western Kentucky and talked about it at length the other night. 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Wait. I thought we were a home field DISadvantage and the players hate us and want to play anywhere but Philly? I'm so confused. 

Well, you would think that players would say happy talk things 100% of the time. If they don't it wouldn't be used in the clip.  Especially when it's edited by the organization.   I personally would think it would be more fun overall if the organization itself, the Eagles,  pushed forward the message of "we're winning Despite the fans".  More fun.   The Eagles just grind down against all the nastiness that goes toward the Eagles from fans.  Not saying it's a good idea,  but I'd find it fun.   I like AJ Brown and Slay more for what they said about fans and the media. 

Saying nice things about the fans in general - extremely common, almost universal.
Saying critical things about the fans in general - extremely uncommon,  enough so for fans to really question if what they're doing is anything close to the right thing.  Doesn't really seem too much like some fans did that introspection.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yes. I watched his games against Prairie View A&M and Western Kentucky and talked about it at length the other night. 

Good football being played baby

Just now, Saltpeter said:

Good football being played baby

The crazy thing is he didn’t really stand out much. 

Jalyx has a 10% shot at being a Pro Bowler, a 15% shot of being a ST player only and a 75% shot of being a complete bust and not lasting to the end of his second season. 

That's his profile. We can disagree with the ratios, but it's a boom/bust pick. The most likely scenario is we spend a top 50 pick next year on a fantastic EDGE class.

2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

@vikas83  How about this, let's combine both bets together according to these terms:

• If Ringo is cut, I get to pick your avi for a month
• If Rodgers is also cut, I get to extend it to two months
• If Bradberry is cut but Ringo and Rodgers are safe, you get to pick my avi for two months
• If only Rodgers gets cut but the other two make the roster, I get to pick your avi for a month
• If both Rodgers and Bradberry are cut, you get to pick my avi for a month
• If none of the above are cut, no avi change
• If all of the above are cut, no avi change

By cut or safe, this means who is or isn't on the roster for Week 1. Any injury to any of the above players voids all terms.

Sound good?

 

OT, Dan Sileo is the only media guy I think who's ever actually pissed me off. Like this man is so obnoxious and so dumb, that my rationality goes out the window 

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yes. I watched his games against Prairie View A&M and Western Kentucky and talked about it at length the other night. 

So how do you think his skill set projects to Fangio’s scheme? Fangio doesn’t blitz much and drops players into coverage a lot.

 

5 minutes ago, RLC said:

Jalyx has a 10% shot at being a Pro Bowler, a 15% shot of being a ST player only and a 75% shot of being a complete bust and not lasting to the end of his second season. 

That's his profile. We can disagree with the ratios, but it's a boom/bust pick. The most likely scenario is spend a top 50 pick next year on a fantastic EDGE class.

I mean, I don’t think even if he unlocks his potential he will ever be a pro bowler.
 

Assuming he develops as well as coaches could reasonably hope, he isn’t going to be a double digit sack guy. His stat line will be something like 6-8 sacks, 1-3 INTs, and a bunch of tackles. But he’ll have a really good pass coverage rating.

1 hour ago, hukdonfoniks said:

Bradberry was put on notice the instant they drafted Quinyon Mitchell. 

Ringo isn't going anywhere.  He played well on special teams and didn't look bad at all when they gave him snaps. 

Wouldn't be surprised if they ultimately went with Slay/Mitchell/Rodgers/Ringo/Ricks/Jobe.  Go CJGJ/Blankenship/DeJean/Brown at safety and then use DeJean and CJ as backup slot options behind Rodgers.  Maybe they go really deep at corner and try to sneak Tyler Hall in too. 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Wait. I thought we were a home field DISadvantage and the players hate us and want to play anywhere but Philly? I'm so confused. 

Well, you would think that players would say happy talk things 100% of the time. If they don't it wouldn't be used in the clip.  Especially when it's edited by the organization.   I personally would think it would be more fun overall if the organization itself, the Eagles,  pushed forward the message of "we're winning Despite the fans".  More fun.   The Eagles just grind down against all the nastiness that goes toward the Eagles from fans.  Not saying it's a good idea,  but I'd find it fun.   I like AJ Brown and Slay more for what they said about fans and the media. 

Saying nice things about the fans in general - extremely common, almost universal.
Saying critical things about the fans in general - extremely uncommon,  enough so for fans to really question if what they're doing is anything close to the right thing.  Doesn't really seem too much like some fans did that introspection.


I didn't like the PFFs of Ricks and Jobe last year.  in the 40s, the terrible category.   Bradberry was in the bad category,  with a PFF close to 60.   He's been good before,  not sure if he was ever as bad as Ricks and Jobe last year.   And,  very importantly, Bradberry was paid already for the year in the form of an Option Bonus.   I think that if he was traded, he would get something pretty good back, because the other team wouldn't have to pay him, or just something like vet minimum.  A $9 Million option bonus paid.   If the other options are Ricks or Jobe,  I'd keep Bradberry.  

14 minutes ago, TEW said:

So how do you think his skill set projects to Fangio’s scheme? Fangio doesn’t blitz much and drops players into coverage a lot.

 

I mean, I don’t think even if he unlocks his potential he will ever be a pro bowler.
 

Assuming he develops as well as coaches could reasonably hope, he isn’t going to be a double digit sack guy. His stat line will be something like 6-8 sacks, 1-3 INTs, and a bunch of tackles. But he’ll have a really good pass coverage rating.

I already said it quite a few times. He will be an edge defender who will also drop into coverage. Fangio tends to have one edge do it more often than the other, and that very well could be Hunt. I don’t think he’s going to be this chess piece that plays dime linebacker.

What will make or break him as a player won’t be his coverage skills. He just needs to be passable there. They need to refine his rushing, because he has some good ideas on how to use jump cuts to gain separation. He just has no idea how to use his hands. 

20 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The crazy thing is he didn’t really stand out much. 

He gone. 

I will always miss Boston Scott trolling the Giants.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

He gone. 

Oh no we play against him too

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

He just us no idea how to use his hands

Yep, and unfortunately, I'm not sure we have the position coach needed to drill that kind of technique. 

5 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Well, you would think that players would say happy talk things 100% of the time. If they don't it wouldn't be used in the clip.  Especially when it's edited by the organization.   I personally would think it would be more fun overall if the organization itself, the Eagles,  pushed forward the message of "we're winning Despite the fans".  More fun.   The Eagles just grind down against all the nastiness that goes toward the Eagles from fans.  Not saying it's a good idea,  but I'd find it fun.   I like AJ Brown and Slay more for what they said about fans and the media. 

Saying nice things about the fans in general - extremely common, almost universal.
Saying critical things about the fans in general - extremely uncommon,  enough so for fans to really question if what they're doing is anything close to the right thing.  Doesn't really seem too much like some fans did that introspection.


I didn't like the PFFs of Ricks and Jobe last year.  in the 40s, the terrible category.   Bradberry was in the bad category,  with a PFF close to 60.   He's been good before,  not sure if he was ever as bad as Ricks and Jobe last year.   And,  very importantly, Bradberry was paid already for the year in the form of an Option Bonus.   I think that if he was traded, he would get something pretty good back, because the other team wouldn't have to pay him, or just something like vet minimum.  A $9 Million option bonus paid.   If the other options are Ricks or Jobe,  I'd keep Bradberry.  

Thanks can you tell me all that one more time? Twice wasn’t enough.

Hunt is already 250 and looks thin for his frame. He could easily put on another 15-20 lbs. He'll drop, but I think some are exaggerating by how much.

Also, it's not like AVG got paid that much in free agency. If Fangio viewed his skill set as essential, he'd be here. Else, we're getting a hell of a lot more Zach Baun than expected.