2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I'm anxious to see how Moore plays to Hurts strengths yet also makes him do NFL QB things. last year was really a wash as far as Hurts progressing. I want to see that return

I have to be honest.   I was more into scheme when I felt we always had limited talent on offense. 

We had a finesse speed offense with the MeSeans, Maclin and crew.   We had limited WR talent before that with Westbrook... before that we had Watters and that stud FB.

Now we got everything ... I am more interested in just seeing the guys make plays...I don't really think we need to do much chicanery or rocket science to make up for any weaknesses... or try to use the limited strengths.   We have everything... just don't be too predictable or do anything dumb in the game management and let the talent do their thing. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

I have to be honest.   I was more into scheme when I felt we always had limited talent on offense. 

We had a finesse speed offense with the MeSeans, Maclin and crew.   We had limited WR talent before that with Westbrook... before that we had Watters and that stud FB.

Now we got everything ... I am more interested in just seeing the guys make plays...I don't really think we need to do much chicanery or rocket science to make up for any weaknesses... or try to use the limited strengths.   We have everything... just don't be too predictable or do anything dumb in the game management and let the talent do their thing. 

I just want to see execution. That makes the game fun to watch. Not having the tush push be 50% of your offense

27 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's not all that far off from what Iowa ran. I mean unless you are going to tear down years of what we do. Cooper is not stupid,he's very bright and is a sponge. He will make rook mistakes,we need to understand that.I'm not expecting a shut down anything right away. Like any rook he will see what he did wrong and make the adjustments

You are confusing me by responding to a quote about the O here. But he made most of his highlight plays as an outside CB. In college the hashes are much further apart with the ball being placed and so on. College ball just isn’t the pros. Main Big 10 National Champs shoved the ball running  down everybodies throats. Which works on all levels. But not much for answers about a DB transitioning to the NFL. Playing primarily outside CB converting to S has to be learned even more than just stepping up levels of competition. If that’s even what you think they should do with him? Are you in the throw everything at DeJean camp except outside CB for game one camp also?

We had the same things last year,except now we have a better RB and the slot guy. Hurts is always a threat to run,doesn't mean he always has to. Like to see a shift to pass first,use your legs to move around in the pocket

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

This is a very real concern about the RPO. Hurts has been the best at running RPOs. So a league wide adaptation limiting their effectiveness is a real problem. Moore runs RPOs also. Whole league pretty much has been. Clearly if RPOs aren’t as effective it means our QB isn’t as effective with him being the top guy running them. No version do I even begin to question whether QB1 can be effective. He still was running a top ranked O with tons of team issues going on around him.  He needs to add to his bag though here. My answer is the quick accurate timing passing game.

I think Hurts has that excellent ability on the quick short pass.  

I think to expand his game...it's the plays where the whole world knows a pass is coming and executing the play is needed to stay on the field.  Can he make a read ..or two if needed while being blitzed? 

The short quick passing game to me is almost like staying ahead of the chains because we are afraid we can't make the difficult 3rd down play.  In 2022, we could execute on 3rd and long...didn't need a quick play.  

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

You are confusing me by responding to a quote about the O here. But he made most of his highlight plays as an outside CB. In college the hashes are much further apart with the ball being placed and so on. College ball just isn’t the pros. Main Big 10 National Champs shoved the ball running  down everybodies throats. Which works on all levels. But not much for answers about a DB transitioning to the NFL. Playing primarily outside CB converting to S has to be learned even more than just stepping up levels of competition. If that’s even what you think they should do with him? Are you in the throw everything at DeJean camp except outside CB for game one camp also?

I'm in the "lets see his talents up close and who else we have and let the kid learn and grow camp"

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I'm in the "lets see his talents up close and who else we have and let the kid learn and grow camp"

Why do I need to assign him a specific task in April???

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

We had the same things last year,except now we have a better RB and the slot guy. Hurts is always a threat to run,doesn't mean he always has to. Like to see a shift to pass first,use your legs to move around in the pocket

I'd like to see Hurts run 3 or 4 times a game... for 30- 50 yards... with every run meaning something.  Not accumulate rushing attempts and yards for fantasy stats.  Mahomes really has that down.   

Just enough to annoy the defense and in a way that is done on key plays.

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Why do I need to assign him a specific task in April???

Let him cover AJ and Smith and the new Smith .He will get schooled rather quickly,so will Mitchell and that's what we want to happen

32 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

You make the game way more complicated...and the players way more stupid than reality.

You take a 9th grader today... they have the knowledge of a college senior 30 years ago regarding football schemes. 

These pros today...way more ahead of the game mentally.  A 5th year QB... shouldn't take long in 2024. Just different times. 

I’ve watched this game for so many years. There always is a learning curve. You just can’t possibly expect the first year in a scheme to be nearly as developed as the fifth. Just simple fact. You start at square one and learn, develop and grow… then adapt. Has Hurts ever been in a similar scheme to what Moore will run? Ever? Just not even close to reasonable to expect a guy to be a seasoned master of something new right away. You think I make the NFL game too complicated…I think you are massively oversimplifying. It’s very much about the nuances and experience…then adapting it to take it to the next level. 
  How can you possibly even think that all things being equal year two any player wouldn’t have a better understanding and be more advanced than he was week one?

7 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You are confusing me by responding to a quote about the O here. But he made most of his highlight plays as an outside CB. In college the hashes are much further apart with the ball being placed and so on. College ball just isn’t the pros. Main Big 10 National Champs shoved the ball running  down everybodies throats. Which works on all levels. But not much for answers about a DB transitioning to the NFL. Playing primarily outside CB converting to S has to be learned even more than just stepping up levels of competition. If that’s even what you think they should do with him? Are you in the throw everything at DeJean camp except outside CB for game one camp also?

He has 5 months at a job that involves about 50 % of the regular full time job.  He should be fine.  

Let the Eagles worry about that. 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I’ve watched this game for so many years. There always is a learning curve. You just can’t possibly expect the first year in a scheme to be nearly as developed as the fifth. Just simple fact. You start at square one and learn, develop and grow… then adapt. Has Hurts ever been in a similar scheme to what Moore will run? Ever? Just not even close to reasonable to expect a guy to be a seasoned master of something new right away. You think I make the NFL game too complicated…I think you are massively oversimplifying. It’s very much about the nuances and experience…then adapting it to take it to the next level. 
  How can you possibly even think that all things being equal year two any player wouldn’t have a better understanding and be more advanced than he was week one?

How often today...do you have anyone 5 years in the same scheme?

The game has changed.  

I do agree with Ham on one point. Siri is still pretty inept at adjusting on the fly. He really needs to do that better

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’ve watched this game for so many years. There always is a learning curve. You just can’t possibly expect the first year in a scheme to be nearly as developed as the fifth. Just simple fact. You start at square one and learn, develop and grow… then adapt. Has Hurts ever been in a similar scheme to what Moore will run? Ever? Just not even close to reasonable to expect a guy to be a seasoned master of something new right away. You think I make the NFL game too complicated…I think you are massively oversimplifying. It’s very much about the nuances and experience…then adapting it to take it to the next level. 
  How can you possibly even think that all things being equal year two any player wouldn’t have a better understanding and be more advanced than he was week one?

Have you seen any high school football lately.   Meaning see what these high school players learn/ practice and work on ...involving schemes and playcalling?

The game has evolved so much from a mental standpoint.  These 22 year olds are exposed to so much from the time they start HS ball 8 years prior.

36 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

As long as he isn't expected to be this slot guy having to cover the out pattern. We should be fine.

So you will be pissed if Fangio calls Cover 3 on 3rd and 4? That’s exactly the Slots job. That’s my biggest question with DeJean…is he a passing down slot CB? But he has the burst to cover the two yards he’d be off that outside WR. Can he flip his hips to go? How else did you read the play responsibility? It was drawn with a line right there showing you slot guy or SS has the out and flat.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

So you will be pissed if Fangio calls Cover 3 on 3rd and 4? That’s exactly the Slots job. That’s my biggest question with DeJean…is he a passing down slot CB? But he has the burst to cover the two yards he’d be off that outside WR. Can he flip his hips to go? How else did you read the play responsibility? It was drawn with a line right there showing you slot guy or SS has the out and flat.

I'll be pissed if it's an easy pitch and catch on an 8 yard out near the sideline if my slot guy is expected to cover twice the ground as the outside WR to break up a pass.  Yes.  

If...it's cover 3...and the slot WR runs the out...with the same distance to the sideline as my slot CB...then fine. That is doable. 

But any scheme that needs my guys to cover twice the ground as the opponent in the same amount of time... I don't like.  

You gotta be able to adjust accordingly to the formation. 

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So you will be pissed if Fangio calls Cover 3 on 3rd and 4? That’s exactly the Slots job. That’s my biggest question with DeJean…is he a passing down slot CB? But he has the burst to cover the two yards he’d be off that outside WR. Can he flip his hips to go? How else did you read the play responsibility? It was drawn with a line right there showing you slot guy or SS has the out and flat.

This is awful,I don't care how good your players are this a first down I could throw

44 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I just don’t understand your whole train of thought here?   

I think it was implied with Rosie’s answer concerning whether he saw Quinyon playing the slot. Rosie remarked…just want him to stick to leading the one job correctly first. Are we teaching the guy to have very tight great fundamentals and techniques? Or are we just developing sloppy try to get every job done the best you can day one skills? Then going to work on breaking bad habits we let him develop doing so. Real fundamental basic train of thought….I believed anyway. Don’t want a Jack of All Trades …master of none situation with a super elite athletic high potential player.

  Brought in Shipley at RB. Are we lining him up in the slot WR role teaching that to him plenty through his first TC? He has versatility. Or are we concentrating on several key RB roles he could contribute doing first at the most sound fundamental way we can accomplish?

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

This is awful,I don't care how good your players are this a first down I could throw

This particular play I keep showing.... if the slot guy is supposed to cover the outside...he should immediately run there, not engage with the slot guy...this play here was already a couple steps after the snap.   

So did the guy mentally miss the assignment...or was this an idiotic scheme? This happened way too often for me to think it was a missed assignment. 

Just now, joemas6 said:

This particular play I keep showing.... if the slot guy is supposed to cover the outside...he should immediately run there, not engage with the slot guy...this play here was already a couple steps after the snap.   

So did the guy mentally miss the assignment...or was this an idiotic scheme? This happened way too often for me to think it was a missed assignment. 

I don't even know what's happening on the other side either LOL. It could be twice as bad as we think

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I think it was implied with Rosie’s answer concerning whether he saw Quinyon playing the slot. Rosie remarked…just want him to stick to leading the one job correctly first. Are we teaching the guy to have very tight great fundamentals and techniques? Or are we just developing sloppy try to get every job done the best you can day one skills? Then going to work on breaking bad habits we let him develop doing so. Real fundamental basic train of thought….I believed anyway. Don’t want a Jack of All Trades …master of none situation with a super elite athletic high potential player.

  Brought in Shipley at RB. Are we lining him up in the slot WR role teaching that to him plenty through his first TC? He has versatility. Or are we concentrating on several key RB roles he could contribute doing first at the most sound fundamental way we can accomplish?

I'm watching my kids play ball and enjoying my life... I don't have to do any of this... nor do I think Howie is a coach and focus on any of his answers in this area.  

38 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

We have a great RB now. I'm expecting a shift from the RPO to play action. Hurts needs to use the weapons not just ball hog after 1 read. he was also awful on alot of runs beause he didn't bust for the yards like he did before the big payday. He would run a few yards and fall down like a deer in headlights. Not a good look IMO.

My view was that was basically the main focus they had Hurts doing last offseason. Almost hyper focused on you got paid …we need you…don’t be so aggressive. Completely unnatural way of playing the game to Hurts.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

This particular play I keep showing.... if the slot guy is supposed to cover the outside...he should immediately run there, not engage with the slot guy...this play here was already a couple steps after the snap.   

So did the guy mentally miss the assignment...or was this an idiotic scheme? This happened way too often for me to think it was a missed assignment. 

No it's not you,the coverage was soft way too often. I get not wanting to get beat deep,but you need more aggression than we showed

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

I don't even know what's happening on the other side either LOL. It could be twice as bad as we think

Idk...call me dumb...I just don’t like the idea...I gotta cover a guy...but he gets a 5 yard head start in the direction we are both going?

Think about it...the inside CB has to cover the out pattern by the outside WR... that's like saying the CB should start 5 yards in the backfield while covering the go route?  Makes no sense.  

47 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Only thing..I think Chip's 8 plays would have worked much better with his running QB Hurts....an all around TE in Goedert...and the better outside WRs that we have now. 

Plus... at the G spots... he didn't have the run blockers. 

I'm not saying this to build up Chip,or approve of the limited scheme... more so to give credit to our current players including the athletic ability of our QB. Also... give credit to Steichen who basically was able to use this RPO system with the perfect timing to add enough to keep the defense from just focusing 100% to stop it. 

I feel last year it was the go to a little to often and predictable on key plays. 

Yeah it was just a college gimmick. Puts up O stats because you create more plays and snaps in a game that way. Not even real effective in college ball really. Was best for a blip in terrible PAC D conference. But it works any level of football if you can smash mouth ram the ball on the ground down your opponents throat endlessly.