21 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

What's happening in Palestine is actual genocide, committed at the direction of Israel's government, even though some people in here were reluctant to frame it as such early on.

Eh, war crimes are going on, yeah, but to say they're systemic is stretching it out quite a bit.

20 hours ago, VanHammersly said:

But with Israel there’s always this very specific needed caveat.

I wonder why this could be? What could possibly drive people to want to do that?

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

Eh, war crimes are going on, yeah, but to say they're systemic is stretching it out quite a bit.

I wonder why this could be? What could possibly drive people to want to do that?

To deflect from the monstrous bullsheet Bibi’s doing?

6 minutes ago, Bill said:

Eh, war crimes are going on, yeah, but to say they're systemic is stretching it out quite a bit.

I wonder why this could be? What could possibly drive people to want to do that?

Perpetual war crimes for 3 years and counting? Sounds pretty systemic to me.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

Perpetual war crimes for 3 years and counting? Sounds pretty systemic to me.

What would you define as the systemic war crimes that Israel has committed?

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

To deflect from the monstrous bullsheet Bibi’s doing?

Just now, Bill said:

No it’s a hit. I’m all for telling anti-semites to get F’d but I don’t think defending Israel’s warmongering is doing Jewish people any favors.

12 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

hey, i admitted dave moss was right long ago.

man that must have hurt

Just now, Bill said:

What would you define as the systemic war crimes that Israel has committed?

Targeting of civilians in strikes, siege tactics, blocking aid shipments, systemic relocation of Palestinians, etc.

You can hand wave it away as a consequence of sloppy operations if this was limited to the first 3-6 months after Oct 7th. But almost 3 years now? Yeah, it's obviously deliberate and in-line with their overarching goal of complete expulsion and resettlement of Gaza.

I’m not always right about Israel or Palestine, but everything I say about Sweden is true.

5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Targeting of civilians in strikes, siege tactics, blocking aid shipments, systemic relocation of Palestinians, etc.

You can hand wave it away as a consequence of sloppy operations if this was limited to the first 3-6 months after Oct 7th. But almost 3 years now? Yeah, it's obviously deliberate and in-line with their overarching goal of complete expulsion and resettlement of Gaza.

Ok, so what evidence do you have that civilians were directly targeted in strikes? Did civilians die in strikes? Yes. Were they directly targeted? Show me the evidence that they were directly ordered to target civilians.

By siege tactics, do you mean encircling an area to deny enemy maneuver before friendly maneuver begins? Does that make Grant a war criminal? Is Montgomery a war criminal for directing the 1st Polish and 4th Canadian Armored Divisions to complete the encirclement of the Falaise pocket?

Blocking aid shipments? From who? A Nordic kid on a flotilla? Did Israel target our C-130s that airdropped supplies there or something? Did they target that floating pier we set up?

The systemic relocation of Palestinians? Like, calling on them to evacuate cities before ground operations begin? Were the Marines war criminals for directing civilians to flee Fallujah?

14 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Targeting of civilians in strikes, siege tactics, blocking aid shipments, systemic relocation of Palestinians, etc.

You can hand wave it away as a consequence of sloppy operations if this was limited to the first 3-6 months after Oct 7th. But almost 3 years now? Yeah, it's obviously deliberate and in-line with their overarching goal of complete expulsion and resettlement of Gaza.

It’s never gonna be a fair fight, because one country has a powerful military backed by the U.S. and the other side doesn’t have a military and isn’t well funded or well trained. Predictable outcomes as a result.

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

Ok, so what evidence do you have that civilians were directly targeted in strikes? Did civilians die in strikes? Yes. Were they directly targeted? Show me the evidence that they were directly ordered to target civilians.

By siege tactics, do you mean encircling an area to deny enemy maneuver before friendly maneuver begins? Does that make Grant a war criminal? Is Montgomery a war criminal for directing the 1st Polish and 4th Canadian Armored Divisions to complete the encirclement of the Falaise pocket?

Blocking aid shipments? From who? A Nordic kid on a flotilla? Did Israel target our C-130s that airdropped supplies there or something? Did they target that floating pier we set up?

The systemic relocation of Palestinians? Like, calling on them to evacuate cities before ground operations begin? Were the Marines war criminals for directing civilians to flee Fallujah?

Evacuate to where? You act like they’re gonna go stay in a hotel for the weekend while their neighborhood is bombed.

43 minutes ago, Bill said:

Ok, so what evidence do you have that civilians were directly targeted in strikes? Did civilians die in strikes? Yes. Were they directly targeted? Show me the evidence that they were directly ordered to target civilians.

They bombed hospitals. What else would you call that?

6 minutes ago, Gannan said:

They bombed hospitals. What else would you call that?

The hospital that those pos Hamas rockets fell on after they malfunctioned?

Other incidents at hospitals? You talking about when some bomb gets dropped in the vicinity of a hospital there and you act like the IAF put multiple JDAMS through every window.

52 minutes ago, Bill said:

Ok, so what evidence do you have that civilians were directly targeted in strikes? Did civilians die in strikes? Yes. Were they directly targeted? Show me the evidence that they were directly ordered to target civilians.

By siege tactics, do you mean encircling an area to deny enemy maneuver before friendly maneuver begins? Does that make Grant a war criminal? Is Montgomery a war criminal for directing the 1st Polish and 4th Canadian Armored Divisions to complete the encirclement of the Falaise pocket?

Blocking aid shipments? From who? A Nordic kid on a flotilla? Did Israel target our C-130s that airdropped supplies there or something? Did they target that floating pier we set up?

The systemic relocation of Palestinians? Like, calling on them to evacuate cities before ground operations begin? Were the Marines war criminals for directing civilians to flee Fallujah?

If a group of bank robbers are in the act when they hear the swat team roll up on them, so they end up taking hostages; is it considered "not targeting civilians" if the swat team decide to unload on the bank robbers and kill all the hostages in the process? Does their excuse that the bank robbers decided to use the hostages as human shield absolve the swat team from the crime of killing the hostages?

Real men don't support Democrats

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

If a group of bank robbers are in the act, then hear the swat team roll up on them, and they end up taking hostages, is it considered "not targeting civilians" if swat team decide to unload on the bank robbers and kill all the hostages in the process? Does their excuse that the bank robbers decided to use the hostages as human shield absolve the swat team from the crime of killing the hostages?

Ah, yeah, a US subdivision's case law and statutes on legal defenses to use of force is totally the same thing as international armed conflict.

By the way, in your given situation, just using PA as an example, legally the swat team would be absolved so long as it was established that the officers were using deadly force to prevent death or serious bodily injury to themselves or others. A good shoot that's within policy? Maybe, maybe not depending on the situation. Illegal? No.

2 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

I'm guessing they softened up "a good deeking"

1 hour ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

hey, i admitted dave moss was right long ago.

Next you'll be cheering for the nets

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Ok, so what evidence do you have that civilians were directly targeted in strikes? Did civilians die in strikes? Yes. Were they directly targeted? Show me the evidence that they were directly ordered to target civilians.

By siege tactics, do you mean encircling an area to deny enemy maneuver before friendly maneuver begins? Does that make Grant a war criminal? Is Montgomery a war criminal for directing the 1st Polish and 4th Canadian Armored Divisions to complete the encirclement of the Falaise pocket?

Blocking aid shipments? From who? A Nordic kid on a flotilla? Did Israel target our C-130s that airdropped supplies there or something? Did they target that floating pier we set up?

The systemic relocation of Palestinians? Like, calling on them to evacuate cities before ground operations begin? Were the Marines war criminals for directing civilians to flee Fallujah?

More than a couple US Civil War generals would be considered war criminals by today's standards. Different time, but that's a rough comparison.

Israel has absolutely run through stop signs that rise to war crimes. They're conducting this war in a ruthless manner. Sometimes quick and brutal does the ultimate good, ending a conflict quickly. This does not feel like one of those. Bibi is being deliberate about extending that brutality over a long timeline.

Most of my close friends are Ukrainian Jews. They're pretty appalled.

25 minutes ago, Bill said:

Ah, yeah, a US subdivision's case law and statutes on legal defenses to use of force is totally the same thing as international armed conflict.

By the way, in your given situation, just using PA as an example, legally the swat team would be absolved so long as it was established that the officers were using deadly force to prevent death or serious bodily injury to themselves or others. A good shoot that's within policy? Maybe, maybe not depending on the situation. Illegal? No.

Yeah no point in going any further if you're gonna justify obvious criminal behavior.

23 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Most of my close friends are Ukrainian Jews. They're pretty appalled.

Well, if your Ukranian Jewish friends are appalled, then that's that, right??

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

They bombed hospitals. What else would you call that?

What do you call people who hide weapons in hospitals, have armed combatants serve as "doctors" in hospitals? If you were running the IDF, Israel would be an Islamic state today. You have zero clue about warfare, let alone warfare in the Mideast. Academics like you think war can be summed up behind the safety of an office, behind a desk.

19 minutes ago, Procus said:

What do you call people who hide weapons in hospitals, have armed combatants serve as "doctors" in hospitals? If you were running the IDF, Israel would be an Islamic state today. You have zero clue about warfare, let alone warfare in the Mideast. Academics like you think war can be summed up behind the safety of an office, behind a desk.

We said that same sheet during Desert Storm, and back in high school I believed it. But it's getting a little too convenient that all my country's enemies are made up of a populace perfectly willing to continually get blown up in fake hospitals and schools, and/or unwilling to fight a government that would do it.

1 minute ago, Lloyd said:

We said that same sheet during Desert Storm, and back in high school I believed it. But it's getting a little too convenient that all my country's enemies are made up of a populace perfectly willing to continually get blown up in fake hospitals and schools, and/or unwilling to fight a government that would do it.

Oh poor you. Did you type that wearing your Covid mask 🤡