9 hours ago, Bill said:

Yeah, that's true.

I think the issue got this way because, and @vikas83 feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but over the last several decades C-Suite pay transitioned from salary to stock because in the first place people were bishing that they had too high a salary, so that's largely why we're having this discussion in the first place.

It was more Boards of Directors getting annoyed at executives with high guaranteed salaries and little incentive to drive shareholder value by taking risks. The thought was that aligning executive bonuses more with the creation of value (as reflected in share price) would drive better results. Which it clearly has - the 1960s were the time of large, inefficient conglomerates.

Well, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And yeah, plays into stereotypes for the far left to cry about too.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Well, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And yeah, plays into stereotypes for the far left to cry about too.

You'd think they would take that same coin and just funnel it into non-idiot candidates.

26 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Well, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And yeah, plays into stereotypes for the far left to cry about too.

So what? I'm Italian and I wouldn't care if we cut off funding to Italy. The idea that if you're Jewish, you need to support Netenyahu and his criminal regime is absurd. I know plenty of Jewish poeple that don't support the Israeli government (nearly 40% of Israelis don't either. The kids are burning their draft cards). Also the idea that we give aid to Israel at all is equally absurd. This isn't some third world country or a fledgling democracy. They are 26th in the world in GDP ahead of Austria, Norway, Denmark, etc.. We don't feel the need to give those countries all this aid. Finally, F this guy from Twitter. Calling Netenyahu a criminal or calling for us to cut off aid to Israel doesn't make me antisemitic. He can eat a bag of Ds.

The DNC had to put up their head quarters for a $15M loan?

The desperation should make for an interesting cycle.

"Vote Democrat, we're broke just like you too".

19 hours ago, Gannan said:

So what? I'm Italian and I wouldn't care if we cut off funding to Italy. The idea that if you're Jewish, you need to support Netenyahu and his criminal regime is absurd. I know plenty of Jewish poeple that don't support the Israeli government (nearly 40% of Israelis don't either. The kids are burning their draft cards). Also the idea that we give aid to Israel at all is equally absurd. This isn't some third world country or a fledgling democracy. They are 26th in the world in GDP ahead of Austria, Norway, Denmark, etc.. We don't feel the need to give those countries all this aid. Finally, F this guy from Twitter. Calling Netenyahu a criminal or calling for us to cut off aid to Israel doesn't make me antisemitic. He can eat a bag of Ds.

This. Jewish donations to the Democrat party are not because of support for Israel. It is because of other stuff Democrats support.

19 hours ago, Gannan said:

So what? I'm Italian and I wouldn't care if we cut off funding to Italy. The idea that if you're Jewish, you need to support Netenyahu and his criminal regime is absurd. I know plenty of Jewish poeple that don't support the Israeli government (nearly 40% of Israelis don't either. The kids are burning their draft cards). Also the idea that we give aid to Israel at all is equally absurd. This isn't some third world country or a fledgling democracy. They are 26th in the world in GDP ahead of Austria, Norway, Denmark, etc.. We don't feel the need to give those countries all this aid. Finally, F this guy from Twitter. Calling Netenyahu a criminal or calling for us to cut off aid to Israel doesn't make me antisemitic. He can eat a bag of Ds.

Yeah. Support of Israel is a questionable enough issue for right-leaning voters. You can be damn sure, Dems aren't gonna gain momentum supporting Israel's wars. Let's see how candidates do on the campaign trail in support of funding a country that can afford universal healthcare, free education K-12, and childcare stipends up until age 18, on top of a war of expansion.

Well while they aren’t going to get votes running on support for Israel they do need strong funding so they better figure that part out and right now they aren’t getting the funding they need.

20 hours ago, Gannan said:

So what? I'm Italian and I wouldn't care if we cut off funding to Italy. The idea that if you're Jewish, you need to support Netenyahu and his criminal regime is absurd. I know plenty of Jewish poeple that don't support the Israeli government (nearly 40% of Israelis don't either. The kids are burning their draft cards). Also the idea that we give aid to Israel at all is equally absurd. This isn't some third world country or a fledgling democracy. They are 26th in the world in GDP ahead of Austria, Norway, Denmark, etc.. We don't feel the need to give those countries all this aid. Finally, F this guy from Twitter. Calling Netenyahu a criminal or calling for us to cut off aid to Israel doesn't make me antisemitic. He can eat a bag of Ds.

First off, this is why you lose.

Second, most Jewish Americans are OK with a real conversation about Israel - most of the ones I know don't like Netanyahu and want him gone. But the embrace of anti-Semitism on the left is killing them right now. There's a massive difference between talking about funding for Israel and/or Netanyahu vs. electing people chanting "from the river to the sea" and refusing to condemn "globalize the intifada." The far left's firm embrace of anti-Semitism is a serious problem and is quickly accelerating, and that's what all my Jewish friends see and are concerned about.

Basically, go back to Biden's policy, or maybe even a little harsher on Israeli actions, and you'd have no issue. Elect Rashida Tlaib and Mamdani, and this is what you get.

59 minutes ago, toolg said:

This. Jewish donations to the Democrat party are not because of support for Israel. It is because of other stuff Democrats support.

The rabid anti-Semitism of the progressive left is the issue.

22 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The rabid anti-Semitism of the progressive left

Explain.

22 minutes ago, toolg said:

Explain.

He put it right there in his reply to Gannan

48 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

First off, this is why you lose.

Second, most Jewish Americans are OK with a real conversation about Israel - most of the ones I know don't like Netanyahu and want him gone. But the embrace of anti-Semitism on the left is killing them right now. There's a massive difference between talking about funding for Israel and/or Netanyahu vs. electing people chanting "from the river to the sea" and refusing to condemn "globalize the intifada." The far left's firm embrace of anti-Semitism is a serious problem and is quickly accelerating, and that's what all my Jewish friends see and are concerned about.

Basically, go back to Biden's policy, or maybe even a little harsher on Israeli actions, and you'd have no issue. Elect Rashida Tlaib and Mamdani, and this is what you get.

Conservatives often get it confused. You can't conflate support for Palestine as anti-Semitic. Anti-Bibi or anti-Israel is not being anti-Semitic. It is not the same thing. One is a county and political structure. The other is a religion, a people, and a culture. There are Jews who are pro-Palestine and anti-Israel.

Certainly there is a concern amongst my Jewish friends about the uprising of anti-Semitism too. But they are just as likely to be wary of the hyper-religious Christian nationalists on the far-right.

17 minutes ago, toolg said:

Conservatives often get it confused. You can't conflate support for Palestine as anti-Semitic. Anti-Bibi or anti-Israel is not being anti-Semitic. It is not the same thing. One is a county and political structure. The other is a religion, a people, and a culture. There are Jews who are pro-Palestine and anti-Israel.

Certainly there is a concern amongst my Jewish friends about the uprising of anti-Semitism too. But they are just as likely to be wary of the hyper-religious Christian nationalists on the far-right.

The issue, as I said, is people who chant "from the river to the sea" which means killing all the Jews in Israel. It's having a mayor of the nation's largest city who created music praising terrorists who kill Jews, and a wife that liked posts about October 7th. Mamdani becoming the face of the party, and the rise of other DSA members, is killing the fund raising.

You can be anti-Israel but not anti-Semitic. People like Mamdani are both.

No one should say Israel shouldn't exist or to call for violence against anyone. That's wrong. I abhor violence. Why it's become normalized and acceptable when Trump and his NSDAP thugs do it, I'll never know. Be that as it may the democratic party should not embrace violence like the republicans do. That said, as for "this is why you lose". I don't think it matters. I think that days of free and fair elections in this country are long over. I think we are only a few years away from a one party system with no democrats anyway. I don't think we will have a new president until Trump dies. I hope Im wrong but I just don't see it.

12 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The issue, as I said, is people who chant "from the river to the sea" which means killing all the Jews in Israel. It's having a mayor of the nation's largest city who created music praising terrorists who kill Jews, and a wife that liked posts about October 7th. Mamdani becoming the face of the party, and the rise of other DSA members, is killing the fund raising.

You can be anti-Israel but not anti-Semitic. People like Mamdani are both.

I disagree Mamdani is anti-Semitic. He is openly Muslim, and is outspoken against Israel and supports Palestine. Yes he is.

Here is where conservatives get it wrong: They like structure and order. They see borders. They see nations built for Jews and think all Jews must support it. They see nations built by Christians and think it is only for Christians. So you make up stuff like: since they're so outspoken against Netanyahu, why can't they summon the same outrage against Hamas! Outrage does not have to be equal. It does not make you anti-Semitic to support Palestine.

Progressives are built different. Those who emigrated to the United States see a nation where it is free to practice any religion. Not only the Christian ones. Jews can support Mamdani and Tlaib, and want them free to practice Islam. Just as much as Jews can practice Judaism. And Christians can practice Christianity. There is room for everyone to pray as they want. It is not some zero-sum game where support for Islam takes something away from Judaism and everyone else.

On 7/27/2026 at 4:06 PM, vikas83 said:

Well, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And yeah, plays into stereotypes for the far left to cry about too.

Is that 50% stat accurate? Seems pretty high. I would've guessed 20-30% or so.

What's happening in Palestine is actual genocide, committed at the direction of Israel's government, even though some people in here were reluctant to frame it as such early on. I have a feeling this twitter dude that vikas quoted still would not concede on this point.

But there should be a good faith effort to discern anti-semitism from anti-Israel opinions. And the implicit sentiment is being critical of the government (i.e. Bibi) not the citizens of Israel, let alone jews as a people all across the globe, though there certainly is no shortage of liberals willing to lump them all together. It's no different than people hating Xi Jinping's actions doesn't necessarily mean they hate Chinese citizens as a result (even though there are plenty of maga morons who do so as well.)

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

What's happening in Palestine is actual genocide, committed at the direction of Israel's government, even though some people in here were reluctant to frame it as such early on. I have a feeling this twitter dude that vikas quoted still would not concede on this point.

But there should be a good faith effort to discern anti-semitism from anti-Israel opinions. And the implicit sentiment is being critical of the government (i.e. Bibi) not the citizens of Israel, let alone jews as a people all across the globe, though there certainly is no shortage of liberals willing to lump them all together. It's no different than people hating Xi Jinping's actions doesn't necessarily mean they hate Chinese citizens as a result (even though there are plenty of maga morons who do so as well.)

It’s a little weird that this distinction (separating the country/leadership from its citizens) needs to constantly be made with Israel but with exactly zero other countries. Saying Iran is spraying the ME down with missiles isn’t met with forced corrections about whether you’re talking about the citizenry. It’s implied that you’re talking about the government. But with Israel there’s always this very specific needed caveat. In the end, it’s just a deflective reaction to criticism of Israel to steer conversations away from the horrible sheet Bibi and company are doing. Sheet that would be met with much more international condemnation if it was literally any other country on Earth, even us.

7 hours ago, VanHammersly said:

It’s a little weird that this distinction (separating the country/leadership from its citizens) needs to constantly be made with Israel but with exactly zero other countries. Saying Iran is spraying the ME down with missiles isn’t met with forced corrections about whether you’re talking about the citizenry. It’s implied that you’re talking about the government. But with Israel there’s always this very specific needed caveat. In the end, it’s just a deflective reaction to criticism of Israel to steer conversations away from the horrible sheet Bibi and company are doing. Sheet that would be met with much more international condemnation if it was literally any other country on Earth, even us.

The historical context is unique with Israel and especially in the west. In a couple more generations WWII will be a non factor and there will be a bigger shift. I don’t see anything strange about it whatsoever at this point in any case. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is what it is.

11 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

The historical context is unique with Israel and especially in the west. In a couple more generations WWII will be a non factor and there will be a bigger shift. I don’t see anything strange about it whatsoever at this point in any case. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is what it is.

Condemning a country for instituting genocide doesn't really need historical context. The horrible things that happened to the Jews in WWII has absolutely no bearing on what Israel is currently doing to Gaza/The West Bank/Lebanon/whoevertheFisnext. Sorry, it's a cop-out answer. No one insists on historical context/clarification when we're talking about the awful sheet Russia's doing, despite the fact that millions of Russians were killed under Stalin.

7 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Condemning a country for instituting genocide doesn't really need historical context. The horrible things that happened to the Jews in WWII has absolutely no bearing on what Israel is currently doing to Gaza/The West Bank/Lebanon/whoevertheFisnext. Sorry, it's a cop-out answer. No one insists on historical context/clarification when we're talking about the awful sheet Russia's doing, despite the fact that millions of Russians were killed under Stalin.

My comment was about your comparing how people connect a country's leadership and its citizens and my assertion that Israel was unique when it comes to that topic. I made no assertion one way or the other regarding how to view Israel's actions in Gaza. Now that you've opened that topic I can assure you that I've been very critical of Israel (the leadership) starting about six months after the Oct 7th event. At some point in there they crossed the line imho and I fully condemn what they have done.

hey, i admitted dave moss was right long ago.