Kenny Stills is available, is he anything worth a look?

1 hour ago, 315Eagles said:

Either a QB or D-lineman when picking that high.

Makes you wonder if they are picking top 5 if they would take a Jamar Chase or another WR.  

I'd trade back from there.   Chase, Waddle or Smith... all good options.  But this team needs more than a rookie WR.  Just as a RB isn''t really worth a pick in the top 5, neither is a WR.  I believe it was @eagle45 that talked about the WR position as being the most 'downstream'...meaning it depends the most on other positions.  I'd love a trade back to grab an extra pick, and grab a WR in Round 1 plus Wyatt Davis.  Doubtful that they could pull that off... but it would be something.  Wyatt Davis is going to be a stud... true stud.  The only reason he won't be a top 5 pick is that he's an OG.

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I would be very happy with a trade back from #5, honestly.  This team desperately needs talent... lots of it.

I can't find a simulator that also allows you to change the order of the draft. This thing gives us pick 8 and Browns offered this for a trade

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/

• Pick 8

• Pick 24

• Pick 55

• Pick 87

• Pick 156

• 2022 CLE 2nd

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I can't find a simulator that also allows you to change the order of the draft. This thing gives us pick 8 and Browns offered this for a trade

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/

• Pick 8

• Pick 24

• Pick 55

• Pick 87

• Pick 156

• 2022 CLE 2nd

That's a little lower than I'd rather move back.  But... I'd think about it.

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'd trade back from there.   Chase, Waddle or Smith... all good options.  But this team needs more than a rookie WR.  Just as a RB isn''t really worth a pick in the top 5, neither is a WR.  I believe it was @eagle45 that talked about the WR position as being the most 'downstream'...meaning it depends the most on other positions.  I'd love a trade back to grab an extra pick, and grab a WR in Round 1 plus Wyatt Davis.  Doubtful that they could pull that off... but it would be something.  Wyatt Davis is going to be a stud... true stud.  The only reason he won't be a top 5 pick is that he's an OG.

I've said that about WR a few times.  While it's definitely downstream, it's also so, so important in Goodell's NFL.  

While I miss having an NFL quality WR corps and envy the elite teams that run their offenses through big play blue chip WRs...the Eagles may not be at the team developmental stage where it is wise to overload on WR talent if the upstream components just aren't in place.  

They shouldn't trade out of the top 10, they need that high end talent. Trading down into the late teens or twenties where we are exponentially worse at drafting is a terrible idea. 

We aren't the browns or jets, we might not get a pick this high for a while.

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I've said that about WR a few times.  While it's definitely downstream, it's also so, so important in Goodell's NFL.  

While I miss having an NFL quality WR corps and envy the elite teams that run their offenses through big play blue chip WRs...the Eagles may not be at the team developmental stage where it is wise to overload on WR talent if the upstream components just aren't in place.  

The hard part is figuring out the OL.... if the cap wasn't a problem, you could just move on to a complete youth movement.  Dillard, Driscoll, Seumalo, Herbig, Mailata.  Frankly, that's not a great OL, but it would be a young one that could grow together.   I'd love to add Wyatt Davis at RG or even LG in Round 1 this year.  

As we discuss what positions are worth the major investments moving forward, I really hope the blog and the FO can see the folly in their major DT investment.

The defense has been average in recent years, is average this year, and will likely be average next year.  The run D with this group is typically elite, while the pass rush is disappointing.  This year, the pass rush has been better with a major regression against the run.  This is almost entirely due to adjustments Schwartz has made in DL gap responsibility and discipline.  

So amidst this situation on defense and the rest of the team falling apart...in 2020 and moving forward, DT is not a position that you need to spend $50m per year on.  I've seen many rationalize it and say that the DL (and defense) needs to be built from the inside out.  BS.  They have criminally overinvested in the DT position.  

6 minutes ago, devpool said:

They shouldn't trade out of the top 10, they need that high end talent. Trading down into the late teens or twenties where we are exponentially worse at drafting is a terrible idea. 

We aren't the browns or jets, we might not get a pick this high for a while.

I kind of agree I wouldn’t want to trade out of the top 10 but this might be the hardest draft year ever with opt outs and COVID disruptions. I think I would want as many darts to throw this year especially.

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The hard part is figuring out the OL.... if the cap wasn't a problem, you could just move on to a complete youth movement.  Dillard, Driscoll, Seumalo, Herbig, Mailata.  Frankly, that's not a great OL, but it would be a young one that could grow together.   I'd love to add Wyatt Davis at RG or even LG in Round 1 this year.  

I'd love that.  

Dillard and Mailata are the 2 biggest wild cards on the team and OT is the biggest problem on the team moving forward.  We have so many needs, just the slimmest glimmer of hope that those two could actually be a quality LT/RT combo seems worth pursuing so that we can use that top 10 pick on something else.

If the top 10 pick goes OT, then you by default are writing off one of them...and the one written off is most likely Dillard, who is a horrible fit at RT.  So that's already a bittersweet pick...draft one first round OT, write off another from just 2 years ago.

Driscoll has some interesting LG projections, but his complete inability to play for extended stretches tempers any excitement.  Herbig looks like the Hank Fraley of RGs.  He could probably be passable if you surround him with studs, but I just don't expect much.  OG would be a big priority, but I'd much rather look there in round 2.

I think round 2 is often a great round for OG's.  High hit rate, big talent there...round 1 just feels rich.  But unlike QB/DE/WR, the top end talent is not picked over from 32-60's.

It's never good to box yourself in with the draft, but this is where I tend to think it's best to look for different positions:

QB: franchise guys top 10, pet projects rounds 4-7.

RB: starter talent round 3, developmental and situational talent rounds 4-7.

WR: high end separators round 1, possession guys round 3, projects rounds 4-7.

TE: rare explosive talents who are high volume receiving threats late 1/early 2.  Complete all-around guys rounds 2-3.

OT: Blind side athletes with refinement top 15, college LT's with great resumes but pass protection questions against speed rushers 16-32.  Projects 4-7.

interior OL: Rare talents sneak into round 1, regular top guys have nice value in round 2-3.  

DE: Production and the right explosive traits top 20 (or better).  Production and less explosion usually go round 2, but I don't like the value there...I think you'll get similar results either going after raw talent or less explosive big conference starters in rounds 4-6.

DT: Only have round 1 value if you truly think you have the rare DT that will disrupt a passing game.  If not, you can get your quality run stuffers in rounds 3-4 with good depth and projects in 5-7.  

LB: Hate to say it, but I agree with the Eagles on this one.  Rounds 4-7.  Even 3 is a little rich.

CB: 1 stud CB and 3 JAGs get you nowhere.  The key to a great secondary is uniform coverage, not the ever-elusive lockdown CB.  So I'm not a fan of 1st round CBs.  Rounds 2-3.

S: Not many playmaking S around the NFL.  They aren't allowed to hit.  They are barely allowed to jump routes and generate turnovers, which usually results in incidental contact and pass interference.  The real value here is in converting guys who cover like CB's into defensive centerfielders.  Rounds 3-4, no reason to reach higher.

Just now, eagle45 said:

It's never good to box yourself in with the draft, but this is where I tend to think it's best to look for different positions:

QB: franchise guys top 10, pet projects rounds 4-7.

RB: starter talent round 3, developmental and situational talent rounds 4-7.

WR: high end separators round 1, possession guys round 3, projects rounds 4-7.

TE: rare explosive talents who are high volume receiving threats late 1/early 2.  Complete all-around guys rounds 2-3.

OT: Blind side athletes with refinement top 15, college LT's with great resumes but pass protection questions against speed rushers 16-32.  Projects 4-7.

interior OL: Rare talents sneak into round 1, regular top guys have nice value in round 2-3.  

DE: Production and the right explosive traits top 20 (or better).  Production and less explosion usually go round 2, but I don't like the value there...I think you'll get similar results either going after raw talent or less explosive big conference starters in rounds 4-6.

DT: Only have round 1 value if you truly think you have the rare DT that will disrupt a passing game.  If not, you can get your quality run stuffers in rounds 3-4 with good depth and projects in 5-7.  

LB: Hate to say it, but I agree with the Eagles on this one.  Rounds 4-7.  Even 3 is a little rich.

CB: 1 stud CB and 3 JAGs get you nowhere.  The key to a great secondary is uniform coverage, not the ever-elusive lockdown CB.  So I'm not a fan of 1st round CBs.  Rounds 2-3.

S: Not many playmaking S around the NFL.  They aren't allowed to hit.  They are barely allowed to jump routes and generate turnovers, which usually results in incidental contact and pass interference.  The real value here is in converting guys who cover like CB's into defensive centerfielders.  Rounds 3-4, no reason to reach higher.

As I look at my personal opinion on the draft value of these positions, I find it interesting to compare it to how many players the Eagles have drafted in exactly in that band and how many players they have drafted way outside of it.

QB: Wentz, sweet spot.  Hurts...2 rounds early for a QB project.

RB: Sanders: 1 round early for a starting RB talent.  

OG: Seumalo, sweet spot.

OT: Dillard.  Fell out of top 15 for a reason, LT was too good to be true at his spot.

WR: Reagor, sweet spot.  JJAW: too early for a possession WR.  

TE: Goedert, sweet spot for a well-rounded TE.

DE: Barnett, way early for a productive college DE with no explosion, belonged in round 2.  Sweet spot for Sweat who had the explosion but major question marks in round 4.

CB: Jones, Douglas, sweet spot, didn't work out.  

S: Wallace, sweet spot.

LB: Taylor, still a round too early.  Gerry was sort of a LB in the 4-7 range, although he also needed a position change.  Bradley falls in that sweet spot.

The 2020 draft is the most conflicted I've felt about a draft in recent memory.

I like all of the major players they drafted in 2020: Reagor, Hurts, Taylor, Wallace, Driscoll, and Hightower are all really interesting guys with a lot of athleticism. The poor value on day 2 is why I don't grade it highly, but they did get some solid athletes with potential. 

41 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

As I look at my personal opinion on the draft value of these positions, I find it interesting to compare it to how many players the Eagles have drafted in exactly in that band and how many players they have drafted way outside of it.

QB: Wentz, sweet spot.  Hurts...2 rounds early for a QB project.

RB: Sanders: 1 round early for a starting RB talent.  

OG: Seumalo, sweet spot.

OT: Dillard.  Fell out of top 15 for a reason, LT was too good to be true at his spot.

WR: Reagor, sweet spot.  JJAW: too early for a possession WR.  

TE: Goedert, sweet spot for a well-rounded TE.

DE: Barnett, way early for a productive college DE with no explosion, belonged in round 2.  Sweet spot for Sweat who had the explosion but major question marks in round 4.

CB: Jones, Douglas, sweet spot, didn't work out.  

S: Wallace, sweet spot.

LB: Taylor, still a round too early.  Gerry was sort of a LB in the 4-7 range, although he also needed a position change.  Bradley falls in that sweet spot.

Barnett’s production on the field in the NFL has met and exceeded his draft spot. He’s performed better than almost every other DE taken around where he was taken last 5 years. 
 

His issue has been injuries keeping him off the field. 

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'd trade back from there.   Chase, Waddle or Smith... all good options.  But this team needs more than a rookie WR.  Just as a RB isn''t really worth a pick in the top 5, neither is a WR.  I believe it was @eagle45 that talked about the WR position as being the most 'downstream'...meaning it depends the most on other positions.  I'd love a trade back to grab an extra pick, and grab a WR in Round 1 plus Wyatt Davis.  Doubtful that they could pull that off... but it would be something.  Wyatt Davis is going to be a stud... true stud.  The only reason he won't be a top 5 pick is that he's an OG.

I doubt WR would be the pick if it was top 5.  History tells us it's a O or D lineman, especially if Howie is still GM.  I'm just hoping there is someone available like a Chase Young or a Bosa.  Someone that can play right away and make an impact.

6 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

I doubt WR would be the pick if it was top 5.  History tells us it's a O or D lineman, especially if Howie is still GM.  I'm just hoping there is someone available like a Chase Young or a Bosa.  Someone that can play right away and make an impact.

I would welcome it, but at the same time, the defense is average and the offense is sucksville, granted I think a lot of that is scheme, but I also see a talent disparity with the rest of the league.  They need to find some true playmakers on offense.

Unless Barnett is willing to take a cheap deal, he can go elsewhere. I like the kid enough, but I'm not willing to pay him 10+ million for 6 sacks a year and missing some games. I don't care how young he still is. Not sure he will ever go anywhere, aside from maybe Washington, to a team that has as much on the DL as we do. Teams are going to be sorry if they think he's worthy of big money.

Just like we kept Agholor on the 5th year option, we're going to do the same with Barnett. We don't get a comp pick if he signs as a FA with a declined option. If we weren't going to keep him, we would have traded him at the deadline. 

8 hours ago, wtfcares said:

Barnett’s production on the field in the NFL has met and exceeded his draft spot. He’s performed better than almost every other DE taken around where he was taken last 5 years. 
 

His issue has been injuries keeping him off the field. 

😂

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

Just like we kept Agholor on the 5th year option, we're going to do the same with Barnett. We don't get a comp pick if he signs as a FA with a declined option. If we weren't going to keep him, we would have traded him at the deadline. 

You definitely make a valid point, a very Eagles way of thinking mindset.  That's what gets them in trouble though.  Valuing a comp pick over production and cap space.  They could sign a veteran and get the same production as Barnett.  Heck, I would be OK with Vinny on a 1-year $1.5 million deal instead of Barnett at $10 million.  

I'm actually more intrigued by the upcoming offseason than I am the rest of the season.  There are so many question marks from the top down.  It all starts with Lurie.  He needs to make the right moves as far as Howie/DP and such and then the dominos will fall.

If Howie comes back, I think it will be with the knowledge that you have ONE year to fix this mess.  If you can take this negative $60 million cap, potential top 5-10 draft pick and turn this team around then you can stay....If not, you're gone.

With DP, it's going to be you can come back but you need to bring in a true OC and he calls the plays.  Jim Schwartz is gone so defense is going to be a whole other story.

Then we have the players....it's going to be a roller coaster for sure to see how things play out.

18 minutes ago, RLC said:

Just like we kept Agholor on the 5th year option, we're going to do the same with Barnett. We don't get a comp pick if he signs as a FA with a declined option. If we weren't going to keep him, we would have traded him at the deadline. 

They could have wanted their cake and to eat it too. Keep Barnett to try and win the division this year and potentially trade him in the offseason. I would think there would be a market for him. $10M for a starting DE isn’t prohibitive. I think we’d be looking at a mid-round pick at best. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

They could have wanted their cake and to eat it too. Keep Barnett to try and win the division this year and potentially trade him in the offseason. I would think there would be a market for him. $10M for a starting DE isn’t prohibitive. I think we’d be looking at a mid-round pick at best. 

I'm on board with this plan.

The larger issue with Barnett/Ertz, is that to trade either of them, we have to be under the cap before the league starts. 

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

They could have wanted their cake and to eat it too. Keep Barnett to try and win the division this year and potentially trade him in the offseason. I would think there would be a market for him. $10M for a starting DE isn’t prohibitive. I think we’d be looking at a mid-round pick at best. 

Someone MIGHT pay Barnett $10m.  No one would trade a pick for Barnett AND pay him $10m.

He has zero trade value at that cap number.  7th round pick.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Someone MIGHT pay Barnett $10m.  No one would trade a pick for Barnett AND pay him $10m.

He has zero trade value at that cap number.  7th round pick.

Maybe, but teams sniffed around him at the trade deadline knowing his 2021 salary was $10M and guaranteed for injury. 

Shaq Lawson got $10M a year as a FA, and I bet Barnett is more highly thought of than him. 

19 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

They could have wanted their cake and to eat it too. Keep Barnett to try and win the division this year and potentially trade him in the offseason. I would think there would be a market for him. $10M for a starting DE isn’t prohibitive. I think we’d be looking at a mid-round pick at best. 

 

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Someone MIGHT pay Barnett $10m.  No one would trade a pick for Barnett AND pay him $10m.

He has zero trade value at that cap number.  7th round pick.

10 million isn't a lot of money for a starting DE.

If we gave up a 4th round pick for Avery, I doubt they would take less than a 2nd/3rd for Barnett.