55 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

False, his feet look very similar to the screenshot you posted of Wentz, because in the real world the progressions are made faster than a human can change the orientation of their entire body.

Only on big downfield throws does that stuff really matter much, and even then most NFL QBs' arms are so strong it doesnt matter

This isnt PeeWee football, these guys have lasers for arms.

IMO 99% of Wentz' inaccuracy comes from discomfort in the play, concern about his protection, a receiver not being in the right place, or a combination of those three things. Its not as simple as mechanics no matter how many armchair QBs say otherwise

Why dont you go back to 2017 and show me his highlights where he has this great form.  It doesnt exist, hes been the same type of player here, its the offense, coaching, and personnel around him that have changed perpetually

You need glasses if you think Foles mechanics and feet look anywhere near what Wentz' look like.  If you would like, I could recommend an ophthalmologist. 

 

His mechanics weren't perfect in 2017 but they were better than they are now.  (According to @Bacarty2 his mechanics were fine in 2017 under DeFilippo)  So which one is it?

And he got away with a lot of those bad habits prior to his injury. 

Good QB’s make a bad team average. As simple as that. No one is saying that we should be a 11-5 team but damn not a 3 win team. 

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

For many reasons.

Smith was playing fine that season, but Kaepernick was better. 

Smith was playing so well that the Niners got good trade value from KC. 

Wentz would be benched here for awful play and would not have the benefit of a change of scenery. 

That's fair enough.  At least you come back with well-though out responses in this thread.  (One of the few). 

6 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

He had 2 horrible playoff games that the D kept us in( Falcons and Saints) 1 average game at best against the Bears and 2 great games against the Vikings and Patriots. Hardly an amazing playoff record. 

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response it's so bad.

 

25 minutes ago, RLC said:

If Wentz plays average this year, we're what....6-6? This is not a bottom 10 roster. This is a team that is killed by historically bad QB play. 

So what you are saying if the quarterback who is part of the roster plays better it's a better roster? 

And if some of the rest of the roster played better it would also be a better roster,  correct?

Which makes it a bad roster. This whole Fing team sucks bro. And you can count on almost every player to screw up just at the right time to cost us games.

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response it's so bad.

 

Not surprised. Hard to see anything from the view below Doug’s balls. 

11 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

You need glasses if you think Foles mechanics and feet look anywhere near what Wentz' look like.  If you would like, I could recommend an ophthalmologist. 

 

His mechanics weren't perfect in 2017 but they were better than they are now.  (According to @Bacarty2 his mechanics were fine in 2017 under DeFilippo)  So which one is it?

And he got away with a lot of those bad habits prior to his injury. 

How many times do I need to watch it?

I keep seeing the same thing

Just look at the first few plays, he looks left, shifts his body to the middle of the field, then throws right

A couple highlights later he is sliding to his left and throws down the middle of the field, his front foot is pointing to the sidelines.

Over and over again.  You guys need to find something else to complain about. 

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

How many times do I need to watch it?

I keep seeing the same thing

Just look at the first few plays, he looks left, shifts his body to the middle of the field, then throws right

A couple highlights later he is sliding to his left and throws down the middle of the field, his front foot is pointing to the sidelines.

Over and over again.  You guys need to find something else to complain about. 

I don't have time now because I'm at work.  I can maybe do a few screenshots when I get home.  But the reality is, even if I do that, most of the Wentz apologists will somehow find a way to disagree with it, with no rationale behind it.  

It's really starting to get stale in here with that stuff.

 

4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

How many times do I need to watch it?

I keep seeing the same thing

Just look at the first few plays, he looks left, shifts his body to the middle of the field, then throws right

A couple highlights later he is sliding to his left and throws down the middle of the field, his front foot is pointing to the sidelines.

Over and over again.  You guys need to find something else to complain about. 

Don’t even bother. He can’t see any facts. Just has a blind hate for Wentz. 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

I don't have time now because I'm at work.  I can maybe do a few screenshots when I get home.  But the reality is, even if I do that, most of the Wentz apologists will somehow find a way to disagree with it, with no rationale behind it.  

It's really starting to get stale in here with that stuff.

 

Kettle meet pot when you talk about howie and doug.... the irony in this statement is amazing. 

1 hour ago, phil77 said:

 

It's Schwartz scheme that constantly has guys with their back to the ball or playing so far off they have zero chance of making a play on the ball 

Xavier howard has 8 INTs this year, the eagles team has 3.

What's the point of dropping 7 in coverage every play if none of them are playing the ball???

It's a pathetic safe defense that is bend don't break that is broke.

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

I don't have time now because I'm at work.  I can maybe do a few screenshots when I get home.  But the reality is, even if I do that, most of the Wentz apologists will somehow find a way to disagree with it, with no rationale behind it.  

It's really starting to get stale in here with that stuff.

 

Well off you go. Go cheer for Foles the excellent starting QB of the Jags. Oh wait he lost that to good ol Gardner Minshew. Go cheer for the bears, Foles can surely beat out Trubisky. Oh wait...

6 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

Not surprised. Hard to see anything from the view below Doug’s balls. 

Doug Pederson and the coaching staff share the blame for the offense's struggles.  I've said that on "repeat mode" in here.

 

That said, this is the only thread in the Universe that seems to think that Wentz's mechanics are fine and that he has little to do with the problems of the offense this year.  It's beyond comical and borderline disturbing.

 

 

 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

I don't have time now because I'm at work.  I can maybe do a few screenshots when I get home.  But the reality is, even if I do that, most of the Wentz apologists will somehow find a way to disagree with it, with no rationale behind it.  

It's really starting to get stale in here with that stuff.

 

Same here

The difference is that Foles was comfortable, had confidence, and was familiar with the playcalls and the personnel around him.

Thats the biggest difference.  Has nothing to do with where their foot is placed.

 

For example, Wentz' underthrow to Goeddert the other night....he didnt see it until late and ends up throwing a duck on the run.  He should have known Goeddert was going to break free, gathered himself, and fired it downfield.

You guys ses his poor form, I see a QB that is not comfortable and is only reacting and not anticipating.  His form is a symptom, not the cause.  

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, there are 2 premises those moves are built on that you conveniently ignored: 

1 - There would be new people in place making the decisions on draft day. 

2 - The younger OL would offer continuity and end the carousel of different personnel groupings each and every week.

 

But, the last piece is likely the most important... you said, 'take 2 All Pro players' off the line.   Sure.  There's no guarantee that either Brooks or Johnson ever approach 'All-Pro' level ever again.  If I could be certain that Brooks and Johnson return to their 2015-2018 form... then I absolutely leave them in place and pay them what they are making.  But, there is absolutely no assurance of that.  The younger players behind them aren't as good as Brooks and Johnson once were... but then again, the current versions of Brooks and Johnson are also very unlikely to be as good as Brooks and Johnson once were as well.  

Disagree with last part. Lane was still terrific when he played this year. And while I get they are in their 30’s that isn’t a death sentence for athletes anymore. If Brooks & Johnson performed like Jackson and Jeffrey.... sure get rid of them. Also understand "well they get hurt”, but again who on our current roster doesn’t? The younger guys get hurt just as much as the old men if not more. Plus, we all know how important Oline is ... if we get a great offer sure I’d entertain it. But, I’m not trading those guys for some mid rd draft pick. Just can’t do it. 

2 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

Well off you go. Go cheer for Foles the excellent starting QB of the Jags. Oh wait he lost that to good ol Gardner Minshew. Go cheer for the bears, Foles can surely beat out Trubisky. Oh wait...

If Foles was playing, of course I would want him to do well after everything he accomplished here.  What Eagles fan wouldn't (Unless he was playing the Eagles)? 

The only ones that would want Foles not to have success are the Wentz apologists who seem to think that Foles' not having success will somehow "prop Wentz up".

Well, I have news for you: Whether or not Foles has success in other places has zero to do with what Wentz does in Philadelphia. Zero.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

It's Schwartz scheme that constantly has guys with their back to the ball or playing so far off they have zero chance of making a play on the ball 

Xavier howard has 8 INTs this year, the eagles team has 3.

What's the point of dropping 7 in coverage every play if none of them are playing the ball???

It's a pathetic safe defense that is bend don't break that is broke.

The other issue with the eagles is they are giving up way too many big plays over the last 4 weeks. They have given up 17 20+ yard plays over the time. They have also given up 12 30+ yard plays. 7 40+ plays. And 3 50+ yard plays. They have allowed opponents to March 99 yards on 7 plays. 82 on 7 plays. 66 on 7 plays. And 68 on 8 plays over the last two weeks. There’s more if you go back the bye it’s been about 2 drives per game just like this. 

The problem with the offense this year is the OL. Sure, there are other issues, but when you play 11 combinations in 12 games, lose two pro bowl starters, your 1st rd pick who you groomed to start this year, your LG for half the season, what do you expect? Mailata has been a bright spot, Peters a black hole, Herbig up and down, Driscoll is a promising young guard playing RT, and Pryor has played his way off the roster next year. What QB could succeed in this situation? Look at Dalton struggling in Dallas with great skill people b/c their OL imploded.

Now there are other issues, Wentz has regressed, some due to bad coaching, a lot due to playing behind this line.

The WRs are inexperienced and play like that, Ertz and Goedert have collectively missed over half the games, precluding last year's offense.

Pederson has done an awful job of playcalling and scheming, you avoid slow developing plays when you can't pass block and your young WRs can't sell a double move.

So if you're looking toward 2021, first thing is to fix the OL, changing QBs when you haven't fixed this mess is a waste of time. Which is why you keep Brooks and Lane, the cap savings don't justify thinning out OL depth. This allows you to work in your young OL and transition to 2022 when Kelce, Brooks and Lane, or 2 of 3, are probably gone.

And you try to fix Wentz, by the way, as Chris Simms pointed out, Hurts needs a lot of work on his throwing mechanics, he's not pretty either - and that's a serious coaching (as well as Covid, no OTAs) issue. So better off working with both in 2021 before investing big assets into another QB.

8 years later and the "Foles vs x" debate rages on. My god. 

22 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response it's so bad.

 

Why.  He did not play well in those games.

Carson Wentz, who you say is playing like the worst QB in the NFL has a QBR of 49.2.

Nick Foles v Saints in playoff game referenced had a QBR of 42.4

Nick Foles v Falcons in playoff game referenced had a QBR of 45.8

This must be why you did not want to respond.

 

 

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The other issue with the eagles is they are giving up way too many big plays over the last 4 weeks. They have given up 17 20+ yard plays over the time. They have also given up 12 30+ yard plays. 7 40+ plays. And 3 50+ yard plays. They have allowed opponents to March 99 yards on 7 plays. 82 on 7 plays. 66 on 7 plays. And 68 on 8 plays over the last two weeks. There’s more if you go back the bye it’s been about 2 drives per game just like this. 

Yup. I'd guess most those plays are coming against 4 man rushes with 7 in coverage as well?

If one is continually going to rush 4 and drop 7 then the rush better get there cuz guys can only cover for so long.

Schwartz defense is so predictable and vanilla and when he decides to blitz those are telegraphed and predictable as well.

Schwartz thing is rush 4 drop 7 stop the run and limit the big play, when one is dropping 7 and still giving up big plays something is wrong.

Doesn't help when the only competent player in the back 7 in Slay is struggling hobbling around getting burnt all game.

11 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Same here

The difference is that Foles was comfortable, had confidence, and was familiar with the playcalls and the personnel around him.

Thats the biggest difference.  Has nothing to do with where their foot is placed.

 

For example, Wentz' underthrow to Goeddert the other night....he didnt see it until late and ends up throwing a duck on the run.  He should have known Goeddert was going to break free, gathered himself, and fired it downfield.

You guys ses his poor form, I see a QB that is not comfortable and is only reacting and not anticipating.  His form is a symptom, not the cause.  

Not a Wentz hater.  In fact, I want him to do well as I do every Eagles QB.  There are several problems including OL, WR's etc but the mechanics are just horrible.  Almost every analyst who looks at Wentz's mechanics says the same thing:  too wide of a stance, open hips, foot pointing in the wrong direction restricting motion etc.  

Again, stand up and try a throwing motion like that pictured.  It is so freaking awkward.  

And, yes, Acenova is right.  Foles foot is pointing at his target on a majority of those throws.  So, while I agree that Wentz is not comfortable and not anticipating, he also has very poor mechanics that need to be fixed in order for him to be a more consistent passer of the football.  And it is correctable.    

    

7 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

If Foles was playing, of course I would want him to do well after everything he accomplished here.  What Eagles fan wouldn't (Unless he was playing the Eagles)? 

The only ones that would want Foles not to have success are the Wentz apologists who seem to think that Foles' not having success will somehow "prop Wentz up".

Well, I have news for you: Whether or not Foles has success in other places has zero to do with what Wentz does in Philadelphia. Zero.

It is not about what we want, it is a fact, that we have stated since he left the first time, he has had ZERO success outside of a couple lightning in a bottle situations in Philly.

Even the year he started the season as the Eagles starter he did not play well and then lost his job to benching and then injury.

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The problem with the offense this year is the OL. Sure, there are other issues, but when you play 11 combinations in 12 games, lose two pro bowl starters, your 1st rd pick who you groomed to start this year, your LG for half the season, what do you expect? Mailata has been a bright spot, Peters a black hole, Herbig up and down, Driscoll is a promising young guard playing RT, and Pryor has played his way off the roster next year. What QB could succeed in this situation? Look at Dalton struggling in Dallas with great skill people b/c their OL imploded.

Now there are other issues, Wentz has regressed, some due to bad coaching, a lot due to playing behind this line.

The WRs are inexperienced and play like that, Ertz and Goedert have collectively missed over half the games, precluding last year's offense.

Pederson has done an awful job of playcalling and scheming, you avoid slow developing plays when you can't pass block and your young WRs can't sell a double move.

So if you're looking toward 2021, first thing is to fix the OL, changing QBs when you haven't fixed this mess is a waste of time. Which is why you keep Brooks and Lane, the cap savings don't justify thinning out OL depth. This allows you to work in your young OL and transition to 2022 when Kelce, Brooks and Lane, or 2 of 3, are probably gone.

And you try to fix Wentz, by the way, as Chris Simms pointed out, Hurts needs a lot of work on his throwing mechanics, he's not pretty either - and that's a serious coaching (as well as Covid, no OTAs) issue. So better off working with both in 2021 before investing big assets into another QB.

Who could’ve saw that coming relying on 3 rookie WRs, JJAW, Ward and desean to start the year during a pandemic offseason... 

11 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Kettle meet pot when you talk about howie and doug.... the irony in this statement is amazing. 

Right. Because I haven't literally said," They all share the blame" repeatedly in this thread.  As in just about every conversation I've had on the subject. 

The difference is that you all seem to think it's 90% Pederson/Howie and I think it's much more balanced than that and we can get a better understanding of how much it's Wentz, how much it's Pederson and how much it's the other players (aka Howie) if and when we play another QB in the system.