6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I made it overwhelmingly clear I wanted Jefferson, with no if ands of buts about it.

I know @Iggles_Phan was right there with me.  

It was not a minority, there was a bunch of us.

@VaBeach_Eagle how do you go look at your saved old board profile, and can I see all of my posts if it is saved ??

You'd have to go to archive.org to the member list archive ( here ) and search through the list for your profile. You can't click on the page numbers like you normally could if the site was 'live'. You have to right click on the page number and open it in a new tab or a new window, to get to the next page that you want to search. It's a bit tedious, but I suppose it's better than having lost everything. 

I know that I archived the member list on the 30th, within the final hour of the old board being live. But for some reason, the archive only goes to April 28th. 

All of the archives (I think I linked to all of them), are here: 

It that doesn't have all of the archived links, it at least has enough to get you into the old EMB archived "rabbit hole". 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't think that's right.  I think that was his 5th year as a starter (2005), not his 5th year in the league (2004).

If you count 1999 where he basically didn’t play to the end it’s his fifth 

 

27 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Only Mars? 

Until somebody comes up with a definitive process of drafting it will continue to be a crap shoot.

Sure there are ways to increase ones chances and still it's chance not a sure thing 

I guess I could amend my statement and say that Howie has been a poor crapper?

There are teams with a definitive process, though.  DAL came up with a rating system years before other teams did which allowed them to draft better than other teams did.

People refer to the Steelers and Ravens.  This is an interview that Wimp Sanderson did with Ozzie Newsome right after the 2017 draft.  I’d recommend the full listen, but his draft philosophy starts just before the 6:00 mark.  He discusses the basics that most teams follow, but what is really important is the overall philosophy and how closely a successful franchise sticks to it — as well as accountability.

Interesting bit about the deciding factor in the Crimson Tide hiring Nick Saban over Steve Spurrier, as well:

 

13 minutes ago, Utebird said:

So where does that identity come from?

In pitt it comes straight from the top, ownership, as it should.

Ownership in pitt has been clear about what they want the identity of their organization to be and it has led to the most super bowls.

What's the eagles organizational identity under lurie?

I'm not sure he or anyone knows.

Lurie is milquetoast.  

 

It needs to come from the GM.  With the Ravens, it started with Ozzie Newsome.    With the Steelers, I think it really started with Tom Donahoe, but was tailored to fit Bill Cowher's personality.  Donahoe (and Modrak, both of whom have had their roles with the Eagles) really was able to put a sense of identity to the Steelers.. and it sort of went back to the 1970s version started with a tough, hard hitting defense, and an offense that would beat you up as much as the defense.   That has morphed a little, but their defense has always remained the constant.  They've had some down years, but were never an easy game.

 

The Eagles need to find a stalwart personality to build and tailor this thing to.  Doug is wishy washy, Howie is a pencil neck, and Lurie wants to be fashionable (WCO was his hope and dream all along... he wants this team to be flashy offensively... but that's not this city.)

 

 

13 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

His 5th year was 2003

oh man... I can count.... really I can!   lol 

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

I'm all for giving him another chance next year. The O-line is crap and it's not like we're going to the playoffs this year.

32 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Based on a quick look, I say no.  Here are our rankings on return vs capital

2019 - 21st

2018 - 8th

2017 - 27th

2016 - 6th

2015 - 21st

2014 - 30th

So 4 of those 6 years we are 21st or lower.

Not lets look at the two top 10 rankings.

2018 ( 8th ) we have Goedert ( future #1 TE ) Maddox ( what to say ) Sweat ( rotation pass rusher ) Pryor ( back up at best ) and Mailata ( possible future LT )

2018 Cleveland is ranked 26th on the same chart.  They got Mayfield, Denzel Ward, Austin Corbett, Nick Chubb.  You telling me that is 18 spots worse than the Eagles draft class ??

2016 ( 6th ) Wentz, Seamalu and Mills, all starters, the other 5 guys we drafted are not even on the roster.

2016 Tennessee is ranked 18th on that same chart.  6 of the 10 players drafted still on the roster, including pro bowlers Kevin Byard and Derrick Henry and a pretty good LT in Jack Conklin.

This tells me that it is not weighing player production.

 

I have to correct you on this one.😆

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

There are teams with a definitive process, though.  DAL came up with a rating system years before other teams did which allowed them to draft better than other teams did.

People refer to the Steelers and Ravens.  This is an interview that Wimp Sanderson did with Ozzie Newsome right after the 2017 draft.  I’d recommend the full listen, but his draft philosophy starts just before the 6:00 mark.  He discusses the basics that most teams follow, but what is really important is the overall philosophy and how closely a successful franchise sticks to it — as well as accountability.

Interesting bit about the deciding factor in the Crimson Tide hiring Nick Saban over Steve Spurrier, as well:

 

Yeah jimmy johnson came up with the draft value chart that teams still use today when trading picks and players.

Seemed to really help jimmy trade all over the place, they still needed to identify players that fit what they wanted though.

I'll watch the video, maybe howie should🤔

 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I have to correct you on this one.😆

I will add that Vaitai was a great pick in the 5th round that draft.  He was pushed out here by selecting Dillard... but is a starting OL in the league.  The Eagles just didn't have the cap to resign him, along with their high priced right side and 1st round LT.  But without Vaitai, the Eagles don't win the SB.

5 minutes ago, dawkdaballhawk said:

I'm all for giving him another chance next year. The O-line is crap and it's not like we're going to the playoffs this year.

Yeah but Doug needs to go. 
 

It’s never going to workout with him and Doug after this. 

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Yeah jimmy johnson came up with the draft value chart that teams still use today when trading picks and players.

Seemed to really help jimmy trade all over the place, they still needed to identify players that fit what they wanted though.

I'll watch the video, maybe howie should🤔

 

Just now, dawkdaballhawk said:

I'm all for giving him another chance next year. The O-line is crap and it's not like we're going to the playoffs this year.

There's no reason not to give him another chance.  Ask yourself this.  What quarterback available can be as good as Carson if he plays his best?  The next question is can Carson get back to that level of playing?  I think the team around him and the coaching has totally failed Carson.  He has regressed for sure, there's no denying that.

Look at the support Carson has right now from his teammates.  They are openly criticizing the coaching, Howie and such.  That tells me this mess is above Carson.  Bring in a GM who can draft good players.  Bring in a head coach who can build a playbook and call plays that take advantage of the skillsets of players on the team.

The fact that DP said he is going to call plays to help Hurts rather than do that for Carson was the last straw for me.  You do everything in your power as a coach to try to help your quarterback who hasn't played behind the same offensive line in consecutive games the entire year and has crap to throw to.  

Carson should 100% be back as the starter next year.  

47 minutes ago, RLC said:

He unites the fanbase.

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

Why are there so many injuries year after year?

Who populated the roster with aging, injury-prone veterans?

Who selected the training/conditioning staffs?

 

It's finally getting some recognition nationally at least.  That link to Howie's Long's interview with Cowherd was the first time I've heard someone acknowledge that something is very wrong with our offseason conditioning program, practices, and the way these players take care of their bodies.  Usually, it's looked at as "bad luck," but as we can see and many have pointed out in the blog, something is way way off with these players' train and get themselves ready for games.  

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

Here is a way to look at it that hopefully makes sense to people.

This is going back to 2013.

I would argue we got decent value for Pryor.   Gerry is a strong ST player who should never have been more than a spot reserve.  He played through a core injury last year and had some sort of Achilles injury this year. Your list for not on the roster includes some players that played out their contracts and a few that were traded. A whole lot of day three picks too, some that are still in the league.  Some whiffs, to be sure but that happens with every team.  I am not saying That Howie, Chip or Douglas excelled at drafting. I also believe that Schwartz sucks at evaluating draft choices.  The jury is out on Weidl.  Take Thorson, for example.  Every team in our division has drafted a QB that is not on their roster in the same general time frame and third day.

After the WR's we could have drafted killing us the last two years discussion, just looked into the future to see when the Eagles get a taste of Justin Jefferson.

If the Vikings finish the same spot as the Eagles in the division this year, we would see Jefferson in Minnesota next year, and then in Philly in 2022.

Good thing Jeffery isn't sore anymore and put in a FP. Just gotta get DeSean back in a week or two and this team will really start cooking!

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Good thing Jeffery isn't sore anymore and put in a FP. Just gotta get DeSean back in a week or two and this team will really start cooking!

Oh thank the lord. We should be fine then. 

Any word on Maddox? Has he been a full go?

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh thank the lord. We should be fine then. 

Any word on Maddox? Has he been a full go?

He wasnt on it yesterday or today so he has no injury

43 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup. Seems Howie makes his picks based on a value chart.

He assigns a value to a player and a value to a draft slot, if a player drafted has an assigned greater value than his assigned draft slot Howie counts it as a win.

This is what happens when one puts a bean counter in charge of an nfl draft.

Agree.  Quantitative analysis may have its value.  But using it blindly is a problem.  Drafting is talent evaluation, and we all talk about tangible qualities, on which a number is not an accurate measurement.  Case in point: 40-dash number cannot measure a player's play speed.

Howie needs to pair with a good talent evaluator to do his job, if he still has it. 

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Don’t let Dillard off the hook for being a jello minded weakling. 

I don’t get the Dillard hate.   He looked good at LT when called to sub last year.  Can’t fault him for the injury this year.  Same journalists that were talking down about him during camp were also bashing Mailata.

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

He wasnt on it yesterday or today so he has no injury

Damn. I thought he'd hurt his knee against the Packers and it looked bad at the time. Not that I want any player to be hurt but I wouldn't be complaining if Maddox missed a couple of games. 

37 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup. Seems Howie makes his picks based on a value chart.

He assigns a value to a player and a value to a draft slot, if a player drafted has an assigned greater value than his assigned draft slot Howie counts it as a win.

This is what happens when one puts a bean counter in charge of an nfl draft.

I think every team values picks and players.  I mean that's what draft board is. It is an ordering of players based on where you think they will be drafted. The Eagles have been bad at drafting because there isn't a cohesive theory on player value that he adheres to so he's open to changing his philosophy based on who is in the room, what coaches want, what happened the year before.   There may be an evaluation problem where the scouting department just isn't correctly identifying strengths of players.  The bigger problem seems to be a valuation problem where they have valued players/positions higher than they should have.  I think this is the only explanation for the JJAW and Pumphrey picks.  Then there seems to be this valuing of position problem where the take players or trade up for because they value the position even if the value of the player isn't appropriate. This is the Eagles taking Hurts because they think NE is going to take him. 

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

I don’t get the Dillard hate.   He looked good at LT when called to sub last year.  Can’t fault him for the injury this year.  Same journalists that were talking down about him during camp were also bashing Mailata.

I think there are more questions than answers about Dillard.  I also think his rookie performances even at LT were mixed.  His attitude and performance at RT were problematic.  

6 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Good thing Jeffery isn't sore anymore and put in a FP. Just gotta get DeSean back in a week or two and this team will really start cooking!

Nah... this team is already cooked.