Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[Astampf9]

Hurts looked better when he was in then Wentz did, why was that? He had the same personnel, I think Wentz is overrated. He had a great stretch a couple years ago then he got hurt and hasn't quite been the same since. Even when he had that MVP calibur season, that team was LOADED had a great offensive line, solid weapons, good defense, it was hard to fail with that kinda team. When Foles stepped in, he did even better then Wentz did. It's time for Wentz to go, also, why draft Hurts in the second round if you never intended to start him? Wentz had to play AWFUL for them to make that move, and even after Hurts played pretty well now there talking about him being benched AGAIN. 

[ShutDownDB]

41 minutes ago, Astampf9 said:

Hurts looked better when he was in then Wentz did, why was that? He had the same personnel, I think Wentz is overrated. He had a great stretch a couple years ago then he got hurt and hasn't quite been the same since. Even when he had that MVP calibur season, that team was LOADED had a great offensive line, solid weapons, good defense, it was hard to fail with that kinda team. When Foles stepped in, he did even better then Wentz did. It's time for Wentz to go, also, why draft Hurts in the second round if you never intended to start him? Wentz had to play AWFUL for them to make that move, and even after Hurts played pretty well now there talking about him being benched AGAIN. 

He didn't play well though. All people see is him running around and say "wow he looks amazing." In reality his record as a starter is 1-3 with his 1 win that came against a Saints team that hadn't played a QB like him all year and was missing Brees.

How did Hurts look in the second half of those games? It was more than a defense adjusting, his passes were awful...as bad as Carson. At least Carson has shown he can play at a high level.

[NOTW]

On 1/26/2021 at 10:31 AM, philafan4o8 said:

This guy is so mentally weak. Do fans even want him back? I dont!

He is acting like he was the starting QB for a superbowl winning team...

What is all that based on?  What makes you say Wentz is mentally weak?  And how is he "acting?"

Wentz had a terrible year performance wise.  If you dismiss the TMZ gossip and "reports" that have no way of knowing if they're valid, here's what we know:

• Wentz has always been considered a high character person, there have been many coaches and players say this about him.
• Wentz has been considered a good teammate.  Taking his lineman and receivers hunting, supporting Foles and Hurts when he was injured or benched, etc.
• Wentz never threw anyone under the bus for his poor performance.  He took ownership.  My issue with him is that he kept saying he won't change how he plays and I think when you're playing that bad you have to be humble and be open to coaching and changes.  We'll see how he responds after being benched.
• Wentz was seen on camera and talked about by teammates as helping Hurts with recognizing defensive looks and talking through what Hurts was seeing on the field.  He was helpful to the guy who took his job.

There's a lot of "reports" around this team about various things.  Hard to know what's true and what isn't.  Some people jump all over the negative reports whether they have any evidence or not.  Unnamed sources, or even pure speculation from reporters creates a narrative and people run with it.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

6 hours ago, kentwo said:

To justify a second round pick he had better.

 

Only in a few peoples' minds.  He's a Taysom Hill....a RB who throws.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

What is all that based on?  What makes you say Wentz is mentally weak?  And how is he "acting?

Wentz had a terrible year performance wise.  If you dismiss the TMZ gossip and "reports" that have no way of knowing if they're valid, here's what he know:

• Wentz has always been considered a high character person, there have been many coaches and players say this about him.
• Wentz has been considered a good teammate.  Taking his lineman and receivers hunting, supporting Foles and Hurts when he was injured or benched, etc.
• Wentz never threw anyone under the bus for his poor performance.  He took ownership.  My issue with him is that he kept saying he won't change how he plays and I think when you're playing that bad you have to be humble and be open to coaching and changes.  We'll see how he responds after being benched.
• Wentz was seen on camera and talked about by teammates as helping Hurts with recognizing defensive looks and talking through what Hurts was seeing on the field.  He was helpful to the guy who took his job.

There's a lot of "reports" around this team about various things.  Hard to know what's true and what isn't.  Some people jump all over the negative reports whether they have any evidence or not.  Unnamed sources, or even pure speculation from reporters creates a narrative and people run with it.

Nice post.

I can only imagine that the level of Wentz hate in here is similar to the levels of hate within the hack Philly media.  He gets an inordinate amount of rumors and outright lies just to get a reaction. Its a shame.  

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Nice post.

I can only imagine that the level of Wentz hate in here is similar to the levels of hate within the hack Philly media.  He gets an inordinate amount of rumors and outright lies just to get a reaction. Its a shame.  

I agree, but I don't think it's just Wentz.  The local media does it anytime someone doesn't fit what they think belongs in Philly.  Other cities the media just report and analyze.  In Philly and a couple other places, the media are basically fans who happen to get paid to write.  They are so emotional and get upset, they fire unprofessional questions at coaches and players in PCs and they go on TATER style rants and tirades after the games.  It's actually embarrassing.

They have been spinning these stories about Howie and Lurie too this year.  Reports that Lurie wanted them to pick JJAW, reports that the scouts were clamoring for a player but Howie took Reagor instead.  Reports that Doug never wanted Hurts.  Reports that Doug refused to bench Wentz and Lurie made him do it...then reports that Doug wanted Hurts as the future and didn't want Wentz (those last 2 contradict themselves).  Reports Wentz demanded a trade.  Reports Howie dictated to Doug who should dress or be on IR, who should be snaps and start games.  Reports they're going to hire Riley, reports they're close to hiring McDaniels, reports they're...they throw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

There are lots of "unnamed" source type reports about this team.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

10 hours ago, NOTW said:

I agree, but I don't think it's just Wentz.  The local media does it anytime someone doesn't fit what they think belongs in Philly.  Other cities the media just report and analyze.  In Philly and a couple other places, the media are basically fans who happen to get paid to write.  They are so emotional and get upset, they fire unprofessional questions at coaches and players in PCs and they go on TATER style rants and tirades after the games.  It's actually embarrassing.

They have been spinning these stories about Howie and Lurie too this year.  Reports that Lurie wanted them to pick JJAW, reports that the scouts were clamoring for a player but Howie took Reagor instead.  Reports that Doug never wanted Hurts.  Reports that Doug refused to bench Wentz and Lurie made him do it...then reports that Doug wanted Hurts as the future and didn't want Wentz (those last 2 contradict themselves).  Reports Wentz demanded a trade.  Reports Howie dictated to Doug who should dress or be on IR, who should be snaps and start games.  Reports they're going to hire Riley, reports they're close to hiring McDaniels, reports they're...they throw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

There are lots of "unnamed" source type reports about this team.  

Yep.  I never thought of it like that, but it does start when it is determined that someone doesn't deserve to be in Philly.  No one is safe with that ego running wild.

Its just sad how it works..  One of those hacks bangs out a hot take and it is received by the masses that eat it up. Then another hack repeats it and the "where there is smoke, there must be fire " group kicks into overdrive...then the gang mentality kicks in.

[T-1000]

What exactly is a ''Wentz hater,'' for the purposes of clarification.

[ManchesterEagle]

10 hours ago, T-1000 said:

What exactly is a ''Wentz hater,'' for the purposes of clarification.

"Wentz hater" - Everything is Wentz's fault. Make assumptions about his character being poor. Refuse to acknowledge his strong play at times or the difficulties he has with supporting cast/game plan.

"Wentz apologist" - Nothing is Wentz's fault. He doesn't have good enough receivers/line/coaching. Refuse to acknowledge that Wentz is making bad decisions, missing open receivers or holding the ball too long.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

"Wentz hater" - Everything is Wentz's fault. Make assumptions about his character being poor. Refuse to acknowledge his strong play at times or the difficulties he has with supporting cast/game plan.

"Wentz apologist" - Nothing is Wentz's fault. He doesn't have good enough receivers/line/coaching. Refuse to acknowledge that Wentz is making bad decisions, missing open receivers or holding the ball too long.

Spot on.

Too many people just take an extreme view on things and don't recognize any nuance or complicated combination of factors.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

"Wentz hater" - Everything is Wentz's fault. Make assumptions about his character being poor. Refuse to acknowledge his strong play at times or the difficulties he has with supporting cast/game plan.

"Wentz apologist" - Nothing is Wentz's fault. He doesn't have good enough receivers/line/coaching. Refuse to acknowledge that Wentz is making bad decisions, missing open receivers or holding the ball too long.

And there is no middle ground, it seems.

[EagleVA]

4 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

"Wentz hater" - Everything is Wentz's fault. Make assumptions about his character being poor. Refuse to acknowledge his strong play at times or the difficulties he has with supporting cast/game plan.

"Wentz apologist" - Nothing is Wentz's fault. He doesn't have good enough receivers/line/coaching. Refuse to acknowledge that Wentz is making bad decisions, missing open receivers or holding the ball too long.

Another argument for the Wentz Apologists is a not good enough defense.

Having a swiss cheese defense that puts the team behind early and often adds pressure on the offense (QB) to score immediately before falling further behind. 

Some QBs begin pressing (which leads to mistakes and bad judgement) to keep up, others stay calm and confident in their preparation and the game plan. 

Hopefully the game plan and preparation will be better under Sirianni.

#6 Overall - Caleb Farley!!

 

[Ericgt]

I liked Wentz from the start. If he wants to leave or if the Eagles want to get rid of him.  There is now a trade Opportunity if they can put it together:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30794678/deshaun-watson-asked-houston-texans-trade-sources-say   Deshaun Watson wants out, of Texas, they have similar contracts as far as money.  Wentz and the number 6 pick for Watson.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Ericgt said:

I liked Wentz from the start. If he wants to leave or if the Eagles want to get rid of him.  There is now a trade Opportunity if they can put it together:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30794678/deshaun-watson-asked-houston-texans-trade-sources-say   Deshaun Watson wants out, of Texas, they have similar contracts as far as money.  Wentz and the number 6 pick for Watson.

JHC.  Do we have to explain cap hits again ??

CARSON WENTZ COUNTS 34 MILLION AGAINST THE EAGLES CAP WHETHER OR NOT HE IS ON THE ROSTER.

[ShutDownDB]

15 minutes ago, Ericgt said:

I liked Wentz from the start. If he wants to leave or if the Eagles want to get rid of him.  There is now a trade Opportunity if they can put it together:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30794678/deshaun-watson-asked-houston-texans-trade-sources-say   Deshaun Watson wants out, of Texas, they have similar contracts as far as money.  Wentz and the number 6 pick for Watson.

[Bwestbrook36]

6 hours ago, NOTW said:

Spot on.

Too many people just take an extreme view on things and don't recognize any nuance or complicated combination of factors.

That is the way it has been on here every year. As long as Philadelphia Eagles starting QB's have back ups there will always be haters and apologist and like 3 people in the middle. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

That is the way it has been on here every year. As long as Philadelphia Eagles starting QB's have back ups there will always be haters and apologist and like 3 people in the middle. 

I think the problem is there seems to be a real difficulty with a balanced argument. All that happens is people end up picking a side and the click bait out there fuels their argument. The reality is, as normal, the reality lies in the middle. 

[Bwestbrook36]

29 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think the problem is there seems to be a real difficulty with a balanced argument. All that happens is people end up picking a side and the click bait out there fuels their argument. The reality is, as normal, the reality lies in the middle. 

Exactly, I feel as though I have been middle of the road on this subject of carson all year. As soon as I say something good about him I get sheet for it and as soon as I say something bad about him I get sheet for it. I have not  gone so far one way over the other at all.

Carson can be praised and criticized it doesn't need to be one way or the other. Nobody just sucks and that's it, just like nobody is fantastic and that's it. 

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

7 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Exactly, I feel as though I have been middle of the road on this subject of carson all year. As soon as I say something good about him I get sheet for it and as soon as I say something bad about him I get sheet for it. I have not  gone so far one way over the other at all.

Carson can be praised and criticized it doesn't need to be one way or the other. Nobody just sucks and that's it, just like nobody is fantastic and that's it. 

Its not hard to have a balanced position with Carson and reasonable discussion START.  The challenge is now, and always will be, when those in the conversation refuse to acknowledge anything, but the negative fringe position..  Plenty of fair evaluations end up at "you are a Wentz Washer"...and then the gang arrives. 

To add: I have seen very few posters give Carson a completely free  free pass...most lean to the middle.  However, I have seen many posters take the far side of him being a worthless, unsalvageable, waste of money. 

This is alot like politics today.  Its alot like Cancel Culture today.  

[EazyEaglez]

The best part about all of this is the excuses are no more. We can’t blame the coaches anymore for Carson stinking it up. It’s put up or shut up time. On a side note if people think Eagles fans are going to be angry if Wentz steps up and plays well then you’re kind of clueless. All of us want to see the Eagles do well. The Eagles quarterback doing well is good for the Eagles. 

[Bwestbrook36]

9 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Its not hard to have a balanced position with Carson and reasonable discussion START.  The challenge is now, and always will be, when those in the conversation refuse to acknowledge anything, but the negative fringe position..  Plenty of fair evaluations end up at "you are a Wentz Washer"...and then the gang arrives. 

To add: I have seen very few posters give Carson a completely free  free pass...most lean to the middle.  However, I have seen many posters take the far side of him being a worthless, unsalvageable, waste of money. 

This is alot like politics today.  Its alot like Cancel Culture today.  

Completely agree, as I've stated many times this year he deserved to be benched. I have also said that I refuse to believe he is this bad, that is why I wish they benched him sooner so they can go back to him and see if he got his head out of his ass.

Now we have to wait a whole off season to see if he learned anything from being benched and willing to get himself back on track. 

I still like carson and I want him here but, I think the firing of Pederson may have enabled him even further and I'm not sure he can be salvaged here. I'm hoping so, because the eagles are not just going to give up on him, so get behind him getting better or sit there and be miserable about it. 

[NOTW]

4 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The best part about all of this is the excuses are no more. We can’t blame the coaches anymore for Carson stinking it up. It’s put up or shut up time. 

There are always excuses.  New coaches and system, new players, injuries, the WRs, etc.

But I agree with you, Carson needs to use this time to reflect, study film and work on getting back to the basics and also get his mind right.  He needs to go all in this season to accept coaching, learn the new playbook and what's expected of him.  He has to embrace the opportunity for a fresh start.  I believe it's possible but a lot will rely on him.

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Completely agree, as I've stated many times this year he deserved to be benched. I have also said that I refuse to believe he is this bad, that is why I wish they benched him sooner so they can go back to him and see if he got his head out of his ass.

Now we have to wait a whole off season to see if he learned anything from being benched and willing to get himself back on track. 

I still like carson and I want him here but, I think the firing of Pederson may have enabled him even further and I'm not sure he can be salvaged here. I'm hoping so, because the eagles are not just going to give up on him, so get behind him getting better or sit there and be miserable about it. 

If the Eagles win games with Carson I won’t care. If the Eagles win in spite of Carson rather than because of him I will not care. If Carson becomes a game manager and the Eagles win I’m happy, because the Eagles win. Just win. 

[Bwestbrook36]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

If the Eagles win games with Carson I won’t care. If the Eagles win in spite of Carson rather than because of him I will not care. If Carson becomes a game manager and the Eagles win I’m happy, because the Eagles win. Just win. 

You are a bum!! 

[EazyEaglez]

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

There are always excuses.  New coaches and system, new players, injuries, the WRs, etc.

But I agree with you, Carson needs to use this time to reflect, study film and work on getting back to the basics and also get his mind right.  He needs to go all in this season to accept coaching, learn the new playbook and what's expected of him.  He has to embrace the opportunity for a fresh start.  I believe it's possible but a lot will rely on him.

The overall point is Doug has been deemed the number one problem here. Reich actually won the super bowl (according to some) and Doug was just a bystander so now they have the next best thing to Reich. Let’s see it all play out now.