Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, EagleVA said:

The chicken before the egg question when it comes to QBs is does the QB make the WRs or does the WRs make the QB?

While we know it's some of both I lean towards the WRs make the QB, Dan Marino showed me that, once he lost Duper and Clayton he was nothing more than a JAG.  

I think that may be Carson's best excuse, the Eagles had better select Scary Terry if he's available in round 2.

You can also look at that as overall the player deteriorating. Some of these quarterbacks today are modern day marvels. Most guys back in the day hit their 30s and began to decline. These guys today are playing into their 40s. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yeah this is only a 4 win team that just fired their coach. No big deal at all. Carson just played like a bottom five quarterback in the league but every thing is peachy cream....

You are just constantly pivoting around to the same old tired concepts.  No one single poster claims Wentz is free and clear of blame or that Doug is 100% the reason for failure, but keep trying to sell your BS.  

[EazyEaglez]

14 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

You are just constantly pivoting around to the same old tired concepts.  No one single poster claims Wentz is free and clear of blame or that Doug is 100% the reason for failure, but keep trying to sell your BS.  

I’m pretty clear actually. No coach, or other player makes a quarterback suddenly stink other than something wrong with that player. No coach made Carson throw into triple coverage. No coach made Carson take bad sacks. To act like it’s everyone else and make Carson blameless is a joke. Carson is 90% his own problem. Humor me. Tell me how common it is in the NFL for a veteran quarterback to fall into a bottom five to suddenly become a top five quarterback staying with one team. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m pretty clear actually. No coach, or other player makes a quarterback suddenly stink other than something wrong with that player. No coach made Carson throw into triple coverage. No coach made Carson take bad sacks. To act like it’s everyone else and make Carson blameless is a joke. Carson is 90% his own problem. Humor me. Tell me how common it is in the NFL for a veteran quarterback to fall into a bottom five to suddenly become a top five quarterback staying with one team. 

Who says Carson is blameless?  I have yet to see that take, but I am sure that you have a list.

[EazyEaglez]

4 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Who says Carson is blameless?  I have yet to see that take, but I am sure that you have a list.

I asked you a question and you didn’t answer it. Not surprised, because there isn’t an answer for it. Knowing this why should everyone be so happy? 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

I asked you a question and you didn’t answer it. Not surprised, because there isn’t an answer for it. Knowing this why should everyone be so happy? 

I don't have an answer to your question, but I guess that through your copious amounts of research that you have identified that it is "none".  BTW, I think Wentz will be gone before next season.  I believe that his poor performance paired with the myriad of other issues within this organization will end up with him moving on.

I also don't see all the happiness that you do, but my imagination isn't quite as vivid as yours.

Now, let's hear about a few of the idiots that you have identified that hold Carson blameless.  I have never seen those posts, but you patrol the boards looking for disagreement more than I do.

 

[EazyEaglez]

11 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't have an answer to your question, but I guess that through your copious amounts of research that you have identified that it is "none".  BTW, I think Wentz will be gone before next season.  I believe that his poor performance paired with the myriad of other issues within this organization will end up with him moving on.

I also don't see all the happiness that you do, but my imagination isn't quite as vivid as yours.

Now, let's hear about a few of the idiots that you have identified that hold Carson blameless.  I have never seen those posts, but you patrol the boards looking for disagreement more than I do.

 

So you whined and complained about people negative, but you have ZERO REASON WHY PEOPLE SHOULD BE POSITIVE. Good day. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

So you whined and complained about people negative, but you have ZERO REASON WHY PEOPLE SHOULD BE POSITIVE. Good day. 

LOL.  Another no substance pivot.  Good day.

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

LOL.  Another no substance pivot.  Good day.

I’m still waiting for substance from you. Nothing but hot garbage. Good day. 

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Carson is going to be the guy, this hire was for that reason. For how long is up to Wentz. There is no mystery here. I don’t agree with it should be open competition IMO, maybe a minority opinion but whatever. So Carson will be out of excuses, if he plays good due to this it’s a win.  It’s up to him how this goes. 

[macgregor]

Quote

The dead money would increase to $74,220,611 by releasing Wentz after March 19 because the fully guaranteed $15 million from 2022 would accelerate onto Philadelphia's 2021 salary cap. Releasing Wentz with a Post-June 1 designation before March 19 or the third day of the league year wouldn't be near as cap prohibitive for Philadelphia. Wentz would essentially be $29.6 million better off from the extension than playing out his rookie contract since he wouldn't have played any of the new contract years, which run from 2021 through 2024.

Does this mean what I think it does? If he's not restructured come March 19th, and no team has made an offer, he'll be released. We have no choice. He sucks. We have a good young QB already on the payroll. He's just not Carson Wentz.

[Swoop]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m pretty clear actually. No coach, or other player makes a quarterback suddenly stink other than something wrong with that player. No coach made Carson throw into triple coverage. No coach made Carson take bad sacks. To act like it’s everyone else and make Carson blameless is a joke. Carson is 90% his own problem. Humor me. Tell me how common it is in the NFL for a veteran quarterback to fall into a bottom five to suddenly become a top five quarterback staying with one team. 

Kurt Warner did it somewhat recently.

[kentwo]

12 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Kurt Warner did it somewhat recently.

I'm not saying it will or will not happen, but the context of the season should also be looked at. How common is it for an NFL QB to have 13 different starting Oline combinations? Pretty much only first/second year WRs? Limited run game play calls? 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Exactly, I feel as though I have been middle of the road on this subject of carson all year. As soon as I say something good about him I get sheet for it and as soon as I say something bad about him I get sheet for it. I have not  gone so far one way over the other at all.

Carson can be praised and criticized it doesn't need to be one way or the other. Nobody just sucks and that's it, just like nobody is fantastic and that's it. 

 

And that to me is part of the issue. You try to find a middle ground and one side or the other give you sheet for it. In the end it forces people to take an extreme view one way or the other. It was the same with the Foles vs Wentz argument. If you made an argument for Wentz whilst praising Foles you were called out for hating Foles! It was absurd and in the end forced people to take an extreme view. 

[EazyEaglez]

6 hours ago, Swoop said:

Kurt Warner did it somewhat recently.

Kurt Warner did not stay on the same team. He played for three different teams. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

11 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m still waiting for substance from you. Nothing but hot garbage. Good day. 

That's rich.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And that to me is part of the issue. You try to find a middle ground and one side or the other give you sheet for it. In the end it forces people to take an extreme view one way or the other. It was the same with the Foles vs Wentz argument. If you made an argument for Wentz whilst praising Foles you were called out for hating Foles! It was absurd and in the end forced people to take an extreme view. 

How do we truly define the middle ground?  While yours may be "Wentz stunk and caused too many issues to recover here.  The eye test says Hurts was better anyway and cheaper."  The other side says "Wentz stunk in 2020, but is certainly salvageable and that benefits the team.  He is a franchise QB. The statistics say the Hurts was not as good."  There is agreement that Wentz needs to play better, but everything else is polar opposite....then the overreactiosn start.  It seems that skews heavily to the "Wentz must go" side.  

This is Wentz v. Foles all over again.  It's just Carson Stay v. Carson Go.  Before that we had Agholor stay v. Bustolor go.  All were polarizing arguments with little middle. Back in the day, there were a few maniacs always taking it over the top, ala bobbywizdum or RTK, Morris, etc...and there are a few here today.

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Kurt Warner did not stay on the same team. He played for three different teams. 

Correct.

Kurt Warner was a SB champion and got hurt, so he had to leave STL. He spent a year in New York and then became one of the worst QBs in the league for the Cardinals before regaining form and going to another SB. Twist the argument however you want to for your narrative, there are examples of good/great QBs that have been BAD and turned it around.

Andrew Luck is another example, again somewhat recently.

Here are two statements, pay close attention:

Carson Wentz, for the previous three years was, statistically, a top 10 (roughly) QB.

Carson Wentz in 2020 was one of the worst QBs in football.

Both are factual. 

Why is it then, that there is zero chance that this year was an aberration? 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

How do we truly define the middle ground?  While yours may be "Wentz stunk and caused too many issues to recover here.  The eye test says Hurts was better anyway and cheaper."  The other side says "Wentz stunk in 2020, but is certainly salvageable and that benefits the team.  He is a franchise QB. The statistics say the Hurts was not as good."  There is agreement that Wentz needs to play better, but everything else is polar opposite....then the overreactiosn start.  It seems that skews heavily to the "Wentz must go" side.  

This is Wentz v. Foles all over again.  It's just Carson Stay v. Carson Go.  Before that we had Agholor stay v. Bustolor go.  All were polarizing arguments with little middle. Back in the day, there were a few maniacs always taking it over the top, ala bobbywizdum or RTK, Morris, etc...and there are a few here today.

Ok perhaps middle ground is the wrong term. I think it's possible to think that Wentz is not going to turn things around here in Philly whilst not being a hater. I think it's possible to want to move on from Wentz whilst recognising that Wentz has been, and could be again, a really good nfl QB.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

48 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Ok perhaps middle ground is the wrong term. I think it's possible to think that Wentz is not going to turn things around here in Philly whilst not being a hater. I think it's possible to want to move on from Wentz whilst recognising that Wentz has been, and could be again, a really good nfl QB.

You certainly can have that opinion.  It does not make you a hater..  Just don't get offended and overeact when others don't agree with you on such a polarizing subject.

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, Swoop said:

Correct.

Kurt Warner was a SB champion and got hurt, so he had to leave STL. He spent a year in New York and then became one of the worst QBs in the league for the Cardinals before regaining form and going to another SB. Twist the argument however you want to for your narrative, there are examples of good/great QBs that have been BAD and turned it around.

Andrew Luck is another example, again somewhat recently.

Here are two statements, pay close attention:

Carson Wentz, for the previous three years was, statistically, a top 10 (roughly) QB.

Carson Wentz in 2020 was one of the worst QBs in football.

Both are factual. 

Why is it then, that there is zero chance that this year was an aberration? 

Luck has never went a low as a bottom five quarterback like Carson has. To answer your question anything is possible, but it would be it isn’t plausible while Carson is still with the same team. Sometimes a player needs a reality check. Staying with the same team after they fired the coach (allegedly for Carson) after the player on numerous occasions made it clear he wasn’t changing isn’t going to be enough to expect him to develop. Carson has declined as a player. I know that 2019 late game push against three bad teams who all fired their coaches had people thinking he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the reality of that season was Carson struggled for much of that year. He’s not consistent, and he doesn’t feel he needs to change. Leaving a place sometimes can give a player a reality check. What has Carson lost? He still got paid, he got a coach fired, and the organization brought in a coach that must work to "fix” him. You look at Carson mechanics and they’re basically the same from his rookie year. Honestly I hope you’re right, but I wouldn’t bet that Carson makes any real change. Go on though and continue to ASSume Carson can do what SB champion Kurt Warner couldn’t do with the same team. 

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Luck has never went a low as a bottom five quarterback like Carson has. To answer your question anything is possible, but it would be it isn’t plausible while Carson is still with the same team. Sometimes a player needs a reality check. Staying with the same team after they fired the coach (allegedly for Carson) after the player on numerous occasions made it clear he wasn’t changing isn’t going to be enough to expect him to develop. Carson has declined as a player. I know that 2019 late game push against three bad teams who all fired their coaches had people thinking he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the reality of that season was Carson struggled for much of that year. He’s not consistent, and he doesn’t feel he needs to change. Leaving a place sometimes can give a player a reality check. What has Carson lost? He still got paid, he got a coach fired, and the organization brought in a coach that must work to "fix” him. You look at Carson mechanics and they’re basically the same from his rookie year. Honestly I hope you’re right, but I wouldn’t bet that Carson makes any real change. Go on though and continue to ASSume Carson can do what SB champion Kurt Warner couldn’t do with the same team. 

In 2015 Luck was 32nd in QB rating. Where would that put him in terms of starting QBs?

And no, I'm not assuming Wentz will do anything. My point was even Hall of Famer Kurt Warner went through a several year stretch of playing terribly before turning it around and being a top QB again while getting to another Super Bowl. Okay, he changed teams. Big deal. Was he as young or early into his contract as Wentz? No.

So there's a Hall of Famer and a would be Hall of Famer (if not for early retirement) within recent history that have done it.

But sure, Wentz is the worst QB in football, has never been good and will be out of the league soon.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Swoop said:

In 2015 Luck was 32nd in QB rating. Where would that put him in terms of starting QB’s

Ouch. Gotta hate it when those pesky facts come up

[manz2821]

16 minutes ago, Swoop said:

In 2015 Luck was 32nd in QB rating. Where would that put him in terms of starting QBs?

And no, I'm not assuming Wentz will do anything. My point was even Hall of Famer Kurt Warner went through a several year stretch of playing terribly before turning it around and being a top QB again while getting to another Super Bowl. Okay, he changed teams. Big deal. Was he as young or early into his contract as Wentz? No.

So there's a Hall of Famer and a would be Hall of Famer (if not for early retirement) within recent history that have done it.

But sure, Wentz is the worst QB in football, has never been good and will be out of the league soon.

Also Roethlisberger in his third season  had a losing record, 18 tds and 23 picks with a rating of 75.  He had a rating of 104 with 32 tds the next year.

[Swoop]

1 minute ago, manz2821 said:

Also Roethlisberger in his third season  had a losing record, 18 tds and 23 picks with a rating of 75.  He had a rating of 104 with 32 tds the next year.

Or Drew Brees, who obviously eventually went to NO, but posted bottom tier numbers his second year starting and followed it up with an amazing year and a good year.

So that's what? 4 Hall of Famers now?