Ongoing Ertz discussion thread (orig 9/15)

[nipples]

7 minutes ago, Portyansky said:

I think if they were gonna trade him it would have been done by now. He's still under contract and I don't he is the type of player to sit out.

I think they didn’t want to trade him because they were hoping to get him on a semi-reasonable contract, but from the sound of it he’s pretty much wanting to be the highest paid TE in the league. 
 

I would not be the least bit surprised if he’s traded mid-season, especially if they keep struggling and are sitting there 2 or more games under .500 by the trade deadline. 

[EagleVA]

9 hours ago, Portyansky said:

The problem is, Ertz wants WR money. Imo until we can prove he is not our best WR, he deserves it. Doesn't mean I think we should give it to him, simply he keeps us moving and has been our #1 WR. With that said. He is still under contract. Maybe they should just tell him they will work something out in the off season to keep him happy. 

Just because he has the numbers to indicate that he's our best receiver doesn't make it true, as far as I'm concerned it's more of a case where he's Wentz's security blanket so he gets more targets, give some of those targets to others and compare the production.

Time is running out on this trade, I suggested they pull the trigger two years ago but as usual, whoever is making the decisions doesn't have a clue that the trade is in the best interest of the team.

[EazyEaglez]

25 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Just because he has the numbers to indicate that he's our best receiver doesn't make it true, as far as I'm concerned it's more of a case where he's Wentz's security blanket so he gets more targets, give some of those targets to others and compare the production.

Time is running out on this trade, I suggested they pull the trigger two years ago but as usual, whoever is making the decisions doesn't have a clue that the trade is in the best interest of the team.

Honestly I wonder how much value Ertz really has. I don’t think he’s going to get a kings ransom. Many teams don’t even use their TEs as much as the Eagles do and teams that do already have that guy. He’s nearing 30 and thinks he should be paid like the best, but frankly he’s not as complete of a TE as those guys. I don’t think his value is as great as we all think it is.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

The Eagles used to get rid of guys before they fell off a cliff. They remind me of how the Phillies held onto their start for too long still trying to create old magic. They keep telling us they’re trying to get younger, but they keep giving contracts to older guys. 

Exactly. I mean the BG extension... JP a couple of years ago. Now Ertz. They aren't getting better that's for sure. 

[toolg]

I don't blame Ertz looking for a big payday. He's still playing under the contract he signed in 2016, where some other players at his ability just recently signed for quite a bit more money than he's getting. He's at the part of his career where he signs one of his last big contracts. So it's time for him. I don't blame the Eagles for holding steady. They have Goedert coming up in Ertz's footsteps. I don't think they can throw a ton of money at both of them. Goedert is younger, so he can give them similar production over a longer period. As much as I like Ertz and I want him to stay in Philly, it makes business sense to let him go and test the market. The Eagles don't have to rush to trade him because they will get draft compensation if they lose him in FA. (ie. They'd have to get better than a 3rd round pick in a trade.)

[Portyansky]

3 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Just because he has the numbers to indicate that he's our best receiver doesn't make it true, as far as I'm concerned it's more of a case where he's Wentz's security blanket so he gets more targets, give some of those targets to others and compare the production.

Time is running out on this trade, I suggested they pull the trigger two years ago but as usual, whoever is making the decisions doesn't have a clue that the trade is in the best interest of the team.

He has been our best WR you can not prove otherwise. He gets targets bc he gets open, something our WRs have been poor at.

[nipples]

2 minutes ago, Portyansky said:

He has been our best WR you can not prove otherwise. He gets targets bc he gets open, something our WRs have been poor at.

Yes you can say otherwise. There’s a BIG difference in who is covering the tight end vs who is covering the wideouts. Ertz is typically covered by a safety or even a linebacker. Huge difference compared to having an NFL CB covering like the wide receivers have. 

[weko]

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

To me I think this one is actually one of the easier and more straight forward decisions that Howie needs to make. 

Trade Ertz. 

We all love Ertz and he is a Philly legend but the time has come. Not because he's on the decline. Not because of one bad game. But because he wants top TE money and we simply don't have the cap space to do it. And right now he holds value that will decrease in a year's time. 

Right now Ertz has no leverage. He's being paid well, he's got 2 years left on his deal and he's fast approaching 30. The team also has a seemingly ideal replacement already lined up. And that replacement just had a huge game when Ertz actually let the team down a little. 

Goedert is the future. He actually has a higher ceiling than Ertz. Goedert is a better blocker, is more dynamic and can get YAC.

The team have to pay one of them, they can't really pay both and so that is a no brainer. You pay the younger guy who as a TE is a better all around player. 

That's it

[315Eagles]

17 hours ago, Dwide Schrude said:

Before I get into this topic, I want to be clear I’m not hitting a panic button on the season or advocating that we should trade Ertz mid season or after the season. When Philly drafted Goedert in 2018 and with his proven talent, we all knew the day would come when we’d have to discuss which TE to keep, who goes, or is there a way to keep both? 
So TATE please don’t crucify me too bad for this topic lol.

Ertz has been in my opinion, the clear best offensive weapon on the Eagles since Shady/Maclin/D Jax days. He is also one of my personal favorite players. 
Goedert is clearly a good TE, and I think has the potential to join the Kittle/Kelce/Ertz tier. He’s young, amazing after the catch, reliable, consistent. While I’d prefer to keep both TE, Goedert’s presence is the only reason I would be ok with trading Ertz from a team building perspective, depending on the trade value of course. 
That’s the next question, what would Ertz value be for a trade? 
You look at the Hayden Hurst trade earlier this year first, who Baltimore shipped out along with a 2020 4th for a 2020 2nd & 2020 5th. I won’t even compare stats of Hurst & Ertz, everyone who follows the NFL knows Ertz is several tiers above Hurst. So Ertz should at least net a high second, anything less and Eagles would lose that trade. But after comparing Ertz’s production last 5 years vs Stefon Diggs last 5, I was surprised to find out they had fairly similar production. 

Ertz (GP/Rec/yards/TD)

2019: 15/88/916/6

2018: 16/116/1163/8

2017: 14/74/824/8

2016: 14/78/816/4

2015: 15/75/853/2

Diggs (GP/Rec/yards/TD)

2019: 15/63/1130/6

2018: 15/102/1021/9

2017: 14/64/849/8

2016: 13/84/903/3

2015: 13/52/720/4 

So, Stefon Diggs I would argue has been a tad bit more productive but not by much. Factor in Diggs is 26 & Ertz is 29, also there is the position difference. Even though to me Ertz is more like a WR than a TE. Stefon Diggs was traded for a 2020 1st, 5th, 6th & 2021 4th. Is it really that far fetched that Ertz could land Eagles a 1st? Trading Ertz mid season could severely damage locker room & signal to us that Eagles folded for the year. But do you pass on an extra 1st, when you still have Goedert to keep that TE position stable? Who would make the trade? A few teams come to mind, Saints just lost Michael Thomas for most of season & are clearly in win now mode. Jets desperately need help for Darnold, have an extra first, and the Joe Douglas connection. Patriots have the history of valuing TE, and probably would like to give Cam some help. 

thoughts??
 

 

I like Ertz but you say he's been clear the best offensive weapon on the Eagles since Shady, Djax, Maclin.  Ertz is basically a possession TE.  Can get you catches, create some space in tight spaces vs LBs and catch over smaller CBs.  But he doesnt give you much after the catch.  

If he's been our best weapon since 2013 then that's not good enough.

[Captain F]

16 hours ago, FitzIsAtTheAirport said:

Great, so Howie can draft more Dillards/Agholors/Barnetts/Wentzs

Fyp

[Talonblood]

The argument with the GM, in FRONT of the team- may have caused irreversible damage for Ertz.  A GM isn't going to allow himself to be upstaged or embarrassed by a player. I was hoping they took care of Ertz as his career winds down, but it's now looking like a "C ya later" after that encounter. Ertz never could control his emotions much, and sometimes that can come back to bite you in the as**, like it may have here. 

[wtfcares]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Honestly I wonder how much value Ertz really has. I don’t think he’s going to get a kings ransom. Many teams don’t even use their TEs as much as the Eagles do and teams that do already have that guy. He’s nearing 30 and thinks he should be paid like the best, but frankly he’s not as complete of a TE as those guys. I don’t think his value is as great as we all think it is.

This. Ertz value is equal to approximately what we paid for Slay. Both top 5 in their position. Both around same age, both needed to be paid. We got Slay for a 3rd and conditional 5th. No one is giving a 1st for Ertz. 
 

Unless one of our young WRs really steps up his game this season and proved he can be a go to receiver, no way is it worth it to trade our best pass catcher for a 3rd and 5th. If you don’t want to pay to extend him, let him play out his contract next 2 years, then walk and we likely get a 4th round comp pick. 

[EazyEaglez]

16 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

This. Ertz value is equal to approximately what we paid for Slay. Both top 5 in their position. Both around same age, both needed to be paid. We got Slay for a 3rd and conditional 5th. No one is giving a 1st for Ertz. 
 

Unless one of our young WRs really steps up his game this season and proved he can be a go to receiver, no way is it worth it to trade our best pass catcher for a 3rd and 5th. If you don’t want to pay to extend him, let him play out his contract next 2 years, then walk and we likely get a 4th round comp pick. 

The danger to that is I could easily see Ertz go to a divisional opponent. You let him walk and he will stay in the NFC East due to familiarity and the chance of revenge. If you trade him it’s most likely he resigns with that team. I don’t think Howie can figure out a way to keep Ertz and Goedert. He has two years to figure it out. If Ertz is willing to take less he can get what he wants and that’s to retire as an Eagle. 

[EagleVA]

3 hours ago, Portyansky said:

He has been our best WR you can not prove otherwise. He gets targets bc he gets open, something our WRs have been poor at.

Let's say he has been our best WR with the WRs we've had, currently we have 3 new WRs (4 including DJ) where that shouldn't be the case, not unless of course he's still Wentz's security blanket with the upgrades talent at the position.

Take away Wentz's security blanket and he may grow as a QB.

[EagleVA]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Honestly I wonder how much value Ertz really has. I don’t think he’s going to get a kings ransom. I don’t think his value is as great as we all think it is.

I'd let him go for a 3rd in a heartbeat, or even a head-up trade for a promising tackle or LB, the idea is to get something and move on, it's not like we don't have another TE and other  promising WRs on the team.

[DeathByEagle]

Based off TE trades in the past he has a 2nd round value with something on the back end like a depth player or late pick. Sadly I dont want picks though as I cant trust them drafting esp in 2021 with pretty much no real college season.

Id be more inclined to take 2022 picks or a younger player. Id even give up Ertz and a pick or two to get a solid younger player that can be our future in another position. I just dont trust them drafting and esp with the scouting being more limited this year. They have struggled when they had no limitations. 

[wtfcares]

26 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The danger to that is I could easily see Ertz go to a divisional opponent. You let him walk and he will stay in the NFC East due to familiarity and the chance of revenge. If you trade him it’s most likely he resigns with that team. I don’t think Howie can figure out a way to keep Ertz and Goedert. He has two years to figure it out. If Ertz is willing to take less he can get what he wants and that’s to retire as an Eagle. 

I don’t think a lot of players care about revenge or familiarity. He’ll go wherever he gets paid the most or has the best chance to succeed.

 

10 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

I'd let him go for a 3rd in a heartbeat, or even a head-up trade for a promising tackle or LB, the idea is to get something and move on, it's not like we don't have another TE and other  promising WRs on the team.

Promising is not the same as proven. He’s still our best WR and has the most rapport with Wentz. What are you gonna do with a 3rd round pick? draft another Davion Taylor or Rasul Douglas? Having him here as a weapon for 2 more years is worth way more than a 3rd round pick. Not to mention when he leaves as a FA after we’ll likely get at least a 4th round comp pick. So basically we’d get to keep him for 2 years and get a 4th or we lose him this year and get a 3rd? Not worth. 

[Portyansky]

27 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Let's say he has been our best WR with the WRs we've had, currently we have 3 new WRs (4 including DJ) where that shouldn't be the case, not unless of course he's still Wentz's security blanket with the upgrades talent at the position.

Take away Wentz's security blanket and he may grow as a QB.

Or we will find out what we already know. Our WRs are trash (not sure about this year, except for JJAW currently). And every QB has a favorite target ala WR#1 which happens to be  TE on our team bc he gets open, while our WRs are starring in the sky for butterflies. 

I hate using them as an example. But look at Dak once he got a real #1 WR. 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, wtfcares said:

I don’t think a lot of players care about revenge or familiarity. He’ll go wherever he gets paid the most or has the best chance to succeed.

 

Promising is not the same as proven. He’s still our best WR and has the most rapport with Wentz. What are you gonna do with a 3rd round pick? draft another Davion Taylor or Rasul Douglas? Having him here as a weapon for 2 more years is worth way more than a 3rd round pick. Not to mention when he leaves as a FA after we’ll likely get at least a 4th round comp pick. So basically we’d get to keep him for 2 years and get a 4th or we lose him this year and get a 3rd? Not worth. 

Murray came to the Eagles for some revenge. I’ve seen it happen before and all three divisional opponents could use a TE. 

[time2rock]

3 hours ago, wtfcares said:

Promising is not the same as proven. He’s still our best WR and has the most rapport with Wentz. What are you gonna do with a 3rd round pick? draft another Davion Taylor or Rasul Douglas? Having him here as a weapon for 2 more years is worth way more than a 3rd round pick. Not to mention when he leaves as a FA after we’ll likely get at least a 4th round comp pick. So basically we’d get to keep him for 2 years and get a 4th or we lose him this year and get a 3rd? Not worth. 

I’d feel a whole lot better about how we used any picks we’d potentially get in exchange for trading Ertz (or any other player) if someone other than Howie was making the picks.  

[Dwide Schrude]

2 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I’d feel a whole lot better about how we used any picks we’d potentially get in exchange for trading Ertz (or any other player) if someone other than Howie was making the picks.  

Yeah. I think like others have mentioned, a player for player trade would be most ideal. 

[ManchesterEagle]

Not read all of the thread. But does anybody disagree with any of this?

1) Ertz is a great player and seems like a great guy. Would be a real shame to lose him.

2) Goedert is pretty close to Ertz right now. He has the potential to be better with his superior blocking and is 5 years younger.

3) It's highly unlikely that Goedert would re-sign if Ertz is extended. He wants to be the number 1 here and although they played them both a lot on Sunday, DP has been reluctant to use 2 TE sets as his base package in the past.

4) Ertz won't come cheap and we are short on salary cap space.

5) If we can get a second or more for him after this season then take it, otherwise let him play out his contract and Comp Pickzzzzzzz

[nipples]

21 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Not read all of the thread. But does anybody disagree with any of this?

1) Ertz is a great player and seems like a great guy. Would be a real shame to lose him.

2) Goedert is pretty close to Ertz right now. He has the potential to be better with his superior blocking and is 5 years younger.

3) It's highly unlikely that Goedert would re-sign if Ertz is extended. He wants to be the number 1 here and although they played them both a lot on Sunday, DP has been reluctant to use 2 TE sets as his base package in the past.

4) Ertz won't come cheap and we are short on salary cap space.

5) If we can get a second or more for him after this season then take it, otherwise let him play out his contract and Comp Pickzzzzzzz

They MIGHT be able to get a second if he’s traded mid-season with another year on his contract still. If they go into next offseason with him on the roster still, I’d be happy with a 3rd

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 hours ago, nipples said:

They MIGHT be able to get a second if he’s traded mid-season with another year on his contract still. If they go into next offseason with him on the roster still, I’d be happy with a 3rd

He has 2 years left right? So next year we'd still be able to get something for him but it wouldn't be much as he would only have a year left. Would be much better to trade him now whilst his value will still be pretty high. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

12 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Not read all of the thread. But does anybody disagree with any of this?

1) Ertz is a great player and seems like a great guy. Would be a real shame to lose him.

2) Goedert is pretty close to Ertz right now. He has the potential to be better with his superior blocking and is 5 years younger.

3) It's highly unlikely that Goedert would re-sign if Ertz is extended. He wants to be the number 1 here and although they played them both a lot on Sunday, DP has been reluctant to use 2 TE sets as his base package in the past.

4) Ertz won't come cheap and we are short on salary cap space.

5) If we can get a second or more for him after this season then take it, otherwise let him play out his contract and Comp Pickzzzzzzz

We used 2 TE sets more than anyone in the league last year (40+% of snaps, no other team in the league got much above 30%) and we were pretty much the worst team in the league playing out of 12 personnel. We may improve this year if Goedert has progressed again but it's not the silver bullet people think it is.

The problem is Ertz can get open but isn't great at blocking, he's basically a receiver built like a tank, and Goedert last year was phenomenal at blocking but struggled against man coverage.