2023: Continued dead cap hell (Currently $54 Million)

[Iggles_Phan]

41 minutes ago, paco said:

I thought we had 18, but whatever.  Dead cap hit is 35 million.  Would have been nice to have 55 million to help rebuild the team.

Name	Cap Number
Malik Jackson	$9,033,000
Derek Barnett	$7,248,800
Alshon Jeffery	$5,435,706
Zach Ertz	$3,548,000
Anthony Harris	$2,408,000
Rodney McLeod	$2,140,000
Joe Flacco	$1,940,000
Steven Nelson	$1,508,000
Eric Wilson	$1,372,000
Ryan Kerrigan	$1,140,000
Rick Lovato	$375,000
John Hightower	$150,026
TOTAL	$36,454,161

Table source OTC

The contributions from Malik Jackson, Alshon Jeffery, Joe Flacco, Eric Wilson and Ryan Kerrigan on the 2021 season cannot be measured.  So, carrying over money from last year to this year absolutely is a great move by Howie.  He's playing 4D chess.  That $18M spent last year but carried forward to 2022 absolutely made a difference for this team, and it will continue to carry forward into 2022.  

[NOTW]

12 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The contributions from Malik Jackson, Alshon Jeffery, Joe Flacco, Eric Wilson and Ryan Kerrigan on the 2021 season cannot be measured.  So, carrying over money from last year to this year absolutely is a great move by Howie.  He's playing 4D chess.  That $18M spent last year but carried forward to 2022 absolutely made a difference for this team, and it will continue to carry forward into 2022.  

"Cap genius"

[Bwestbrook36]

So is the hell still hidden or has it been unleashed?

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

So is the hell still hidden or has it been unleashed?

Well considering the Eagles cap situation really killed any chance of them really being in the mix for Wilson, Rodgers, and Watson, because they can’t pay those guys the 40-45 mil a year contracts they want or even leave them the ability to sign anyone else afterwards, I’d say it’s been unleashed for sometime now. Heck they have been in this mess basically since 2018. Funny how Howie got out of some of those bad contracts Chip Kelly had only to plunge himself into worse contracts just a few years later. 

[EazyEaglez]

18 hours ago, paco said:

I thought we had 18, but whatever.  Dead cap hit is 35 million.  Would have been nice to have 55 million to help rebuild the team.

Name	Cap Number
Malik Jackson	$9,033,000
Derek Barnett	$7,248,800
Alshon Jeffery	$5,435,706
Zach Ertz	$3,548,000
Anthony Harris	$2,408,000
Rodney McLeod	$2,140,000
Joe Flacco	$1,940,000
Steven Nelson	$1,508,000
Eric Wilson	$1,372,000
Ryan Kerrigan	$1,140,000
Rick Lovato	$375,000
John Hightower	$150,026
TOTAL	$36,454,161

Table source OTC

Didn’t the Eagles make a contract adjustment to the Brooks contract to give them more money after his retirement?

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Well considering the Eagles cap situation really killed any chance of them really being in the mix for Wilson, Rodgers, and Watson, because they can’t pay those guys the 40-45 mil a year contracts they want or even leave them the ability to sign anyone else afterwards, I’d say it’s been unleashed for sometime now. Heck they have been in this mess basically since 2018. Funny how Howie got out of some of those bad contracts Chip Kelly had only to plunge himself into worse contracts just a few years later. 

Meh, if Howie really wanted to find that money he could. They were in worse shape going into last year and then ended up in the positive. 

[Iggles_Phan]

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Meh, if Howie really wanted to find that money he could. They were in worse shape going into last year and then ended up in the positive. 

Sure were, by pushing money to this year.  And they were able to target studs like Eric Wilson, Ryan Kerrigan and Joe Flacco in free agency.  All 3 one year deals, that some how will cost money for 2022.

 

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Sure were, by pushing money to this year.  And they were able to target studs like Eric Wilson, Ryan Kerrigan and Joe Flacco in free agency.  All 3 one year deals, that some how will cost money for 2022.

 

I know I know, I'm going to get out of this conversation, let you dorks have fun with it lol. 

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

I know I know, I'm going to get out of this conversation, let you dorks have fun with it lol. 

Dorks?  Did the calendar flip back 30 years?

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Dorks?  Did the calendar flip back 30 years?

Yes! Lol 

[paco]

9 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

So is the hell still hidden or has it been unleashed?

The fact that d they ended up within 9 million of the number I quoted 2 years ago (and pushed more into the future), yes?  
 

Calling out this hit was kind of the exact point of this thread. 

 

Edit: As @EazyEaglez pointed out Brandon Brooks wasn't accounted for, so the end # of dead cap was only $2 million off from the original post.  

 

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I know I know, I'm going to get out of this conversation, let you dorks have fun with it lol. 

I prefer nerd 

[paco]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Didn’t the Eagles make a contract adjustment to the Brooks contract to give them more money after his retirement?

Yes.  Give me an hour or so to get the details for you.  Right now I’m playing cups on the floor with baby girl so I kinda need to keep an eye on her

[paco]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Didn’t the Eagles make a contract adjustment to the Brooks contract to give them more money after his retirement?

Ok, did a quick lookup:

 

 

As usual with these things, that's not the whole story:

 

 

TL:DR;  The converted his base salary to a signing bonus prior to the 2021 season calendar ending.  This will then allow them to break up his dead cap hit via a post June 1st designation (same reason we still have Alshon and Malik on the books, he will be on the books in 2022 and 2023)

 

Being that said, you made a very nice catch.  These moves have not been reflected on that table yet, bringing the total dead cap up from $36,454,161 to $43,454,161

 

[Bwestbrook36]

44 minutes ago, paco said:

The fact that d they ended up within 9 million of the number I quoted 2 years ago (and pushed more into the future), yes?  
 

Calling out this hit was kind of the exact point of this thread. 

 

Edit: As @EazyEaglez pointed out Brandon Brooks wasn't accounted for, so the end # of dead cap was only $2 million off from the original post.  

 

I prefer nerd 

Unleash the fury Mitch unleash the fury!

[EazyEaglez]

22 minutes ago, paco said:

Ok, did a quick lookup:

 

 

As usual with these things, that's not the whole story:

 

 

TL:DR;  The converted his base salary to a signing bonus prior to the 2021 season calendar ending.  This will then allow them to break up his dead cap hit via a post June 1st designation (same reason we still have Alshon and Malik on the books, he will be on the books in 2022 and 2023)

 

Being that said, you made a very nice catch.  These moves have not been reflected on that table yet, bringing the total dead cap up from $36,454,161 to $43,454,161

 

Over 43mil in useless money. Wow.

[paco]

35 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Over 43mil in useless money. Wow.

Yup.

 

Howie had basically two choices with the 2021 cap (that dropped due to COVID) and this hit for 2022:  Take your medicine in the 2021 offseason and blow up as much as possible or stagger the hits and make a few moves so that 2020 and 2021 are softened but you still play catch up for a few more years.  Howie did the latter. 

There really isn't a "right" decision.  I personally was a fan of trading away vet players for draft picks (2022 draft in particular) and taking the entire hit last year while surviving through the season.  Howie instead wanted to stay competitive, pushed some money to the future and signed a bunch of one year deals (COMP PICKZZZZZZZ).  In that regard, I think he did well.  But we will have another $30-$31 million in dead cap next year as well.  (My hope is that he stays reserved in FA, fills the gaps from the 1 year deals lost via the draft, and we roll over as much cap space from this year to next as possible to offset the hit.  Do that, then our cap situation is effectively reset.)

[Procus]

I'm old enough to remember when the Eagles were called a cheap organization for always having cap space

[paco]

13 minutes ago, Procus said:

I'm old enough to remember when the Eagles were called a cheap organization for always having cap space

Are you referring to back in the early 2000's?

 

I never bought into that narrative and honestly believe a LOT of that was due to a lack of information.   We didn't have nearly the access to the contract numbers that we do today.  Banner had a philosophy that you draft well and lock up your players early to strike the most equitable deal.  Before free agency and the draft started we often saw a number (eagles are X under) and after the dust settled we saw a "final" number usually around the start of training cap.  Focus then shifted and we went through the rest of the season thinking "man, the Eagles are 25 million under AGAIN".  But then like clockwork, as they played out the season, key players would be locked up long term with front loaded contracts but the new cap numbers were never discussed.  Usually by the end of the year the Eagles were right up to the cap with maybe a few million in reserve, but new cap numbers were not reported.  (remember, there was no cap roll over back then)

 

It's just my theory, I could be way off, so take that with a grain of salt.

[pallidrone]

6 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Well considering the Eagles cap situation really killed any chance of them really being in the mix for Wilson, Rodgers, and Watson, because they can’t pay those guys the 40-45 mil a year contracts they want or even leave them the ability to sign anyone else afterwards, I’d say it’s been unleashed for sometime now. Heck they have been in this mess basically since 2018. Funny how Howie got out of some of those bad contracts Chip Kelly had only to plunge himself into worse contracts just a few years later. 

The Packers are over the cap by $45 million, yet they are signing Rodgers to the richest contract in the league and also putting a franchise tag on Davante Adams with an immediate cap charge of $20 million.

I dont think that the cap is what killed their chance of going after a QB. It was more about the cost (draft picks/players) of getting that player and whether that player wants to play here or not.

[paco]

9 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

The Packers are over the cap by $45 million, yet they are signing Rodgers to the richest contract in the league and also putting a franchise tag on Davante Adams with an immediate cap charge of $20 million.

I dont think that the cap is what killed their chance of going after a QB. It was more about the cost (draft picks/players) of getting that player and whether that player wants to play here or not.

I have to disagree.  We are under the cap, but relatively, not a lot.  We (may) have 3 first round picks plus the rest of the draft class to sign.  Plus their are other holes in the roster that may be filled via FA.  That takes us close to 0.

"So shift some money around".  Eh, not realistic either.  We have THE most inflexible cap of ANY team.  Check out this tweet:

  

On 2/24/2022 at 4:02 PM, OCEaglefan said:

Oh

 

(This is why I am so critical about his style.  It leaves you with little flexibility so if an opportunity arises you can't pounce on it)

 

You COULD stretch out every contract and fit one of those guys in, but its really, really, really responsible.  Like maxing out all of my credit cards so I could put a down payment on a Tesla Model Y Plaid.  Yeah, its cool, has 1000 hp and blows away just about anything, but I still need to pay other bills too and will struggle to for years.

 

[Iggles_Phan]

49 minutes ago, paco said:

Yup.

 

Howie had basically two choices with the 2021 cap (that dropped due to COVID) and this hit for 2022:  Take your medicine in the 2021 offseason and blow up as much as possible or stagger the hits and make a few moves so that 2020 and 2021 are softened but you still play catch up for a few more years.  Howie did the latter. 

There really isn't a "right" decision.  I personally was a fan of trading away vet players for draft picks (2022 draft in particular) and taking the entire hit last year while surviving through the season.  Howie instead wanted to stay competitive, pushed some money to the future and signed a bunch of one year deals (COMP PICKZZZZZZZ).  In that regard, I think he did well.  But we will have another $30-$31 million in dead cap next year as well.  (My hope is that he stays reserved in FA, fills the gaps from the 1 year deals lost via the draft, and we roll over as much cap space from this year to next as possible to offset the hit.  Do that, then our cap situation is effectively reset.)

Well, the only reason there was this "the tiger or the tiger choice" is because he painted himself into it pretty tightly with bad contracts with so much money tied up to aging vets (and most of them declining, aging vets).  The deal for Brooks was after the first Achilles and it was while he had 2 years left on his previous contract.  Ironically... the previous deal would have expired at the end of last season.  We'd have been free of that cap hit had Howie let it play out another year.  AND, not only did Howie give him this contract, it was a HUGE contract, making him the highest paid OG in the NFL at the time.  There was no hint of Covid like that in Nov of 2019, so that part can't be a part of the evaluation, however, the injury history of Brooks had already started to build up, so its fair game to call that out for Howie overvaluing his own players.  It was foolish at the time to think that Brooks wouldn't end up missing the end of the deal he signed and it was frankly optimistic to think that he'd actually play at the same level over the next few years that he had in the previous years.  That's just not how it works in the NFL with aging players.  The Jeffery contract is the albatross that they keep wrung around their neck.  He should have never been resigned to the first restructure, let alone restructuring him twice, which then forced the third restructure to kick the can all the way to 2022 to pay it all off.  Trade for and the resign Desean Jackson to a deal that was that lucrative and had that much guaranteed money?  Terrible decision.  And the Eagles actually had more cap space occupied by Desean in 2021 (a team he didn't play for) than the combined total of both teams he played for in 2021 (Rams & Raiders).  Again, Howie overvaluing 'his' players, as Desean was a former Eagles' player.    The list goes on.   And almost all of these bad contracts were Howie bidding against himself.  That can pay off sometimes, but other times can backfire bitterly.   Almost all of these 'proactive' extensions ending up backfiring badly... creating this dilemma of how to properly dig out of it.

 

I was fully on board with the plan to take the medicine in 2020 (only a fool would have believed that there'd be no impact from Covid on the bottom dollar of the league by the time Howie started making moves in that offseason - the other 3 leagues had ALL shut-down with no end in sight... he should have hedged to the conservative, but instead went a little the other way) and 2021 and just cobble together as best they could to dig out.  But, instead of that, Howie is kicking the can into 2022 and 2023.  Not ideal.  But, since we don't have a QB... we have no chance of really competing anyway.

[Iggles_Phan]

6 minutes ago, paco said:

I have to disagree.  We are under the cap, but relatively, not a lot.  We (may) have 3 first round picks plus the rest of the draft class to sign.  Plus their are other holes in the roster that may be filled via FA.  That takes us close to 0.

"So shift some money around".  Eh, not realistic either.  We have THE most inflexible cap of ANY team.  Check out this tweet:

  

 

 

You COULD stretch out every contract and fit one of those guys in, but its really, really, really responsible.  Like maxing out all of my credit cards so I could put a down payment on a Tesla Model Y Plaid.  Yeah, its cool, has 1000 hp and blows away just about anything, but I still need to pay other bills too and will struggle to for years.

 

Yup.  That's the corner he painted himself into.

[pallidrone]

8 minutes ago, paco said:

I have to disagree.  We are under the cap, but relatively, not a lot.  We (may) have 3 first round picks plus the rest of the draft class to sign.  Plus their are other holes in the roster that may be filled via FA.  That takes us close to 0.

"So shift some money around".  Eh, not realistic either.  We have THE most inflexible cap of ANY team.  Check out this tweet:

  

 

 

You COULD stretch out every contract and fit one of those guys in, but its really, really, really responsible.  Like maxing out all of my credit cards so I could put a down payment on a Tesla Model Y Plaid.  Yeah, its cool, has 1000 hp and blows away just about anything, but I still need to pay other bills too and will struggle to for years.

 

If you are trading for QB, some of that draft money is shifted towards the player as they would be used as part of the package. If the Eagles use all three of their draft picks at the position that they are currently at, using last year's numbers, that is a cap hit of $24 million right there, which means it will be higher this year. You can backload a contract as well to make the front-end numbers lower on the sheet. You are really shifting money from one entity to another. You do not have to do much cap manipulation to bring one of them in, especially in year one.

The issue, whether it is this team or any other team, is that when you commit a quarter of your cap to one player, you have to fill a bulk of it with low-end FA, older players and cheap draft picks. This team is not capable of doing that right now.

There was nothing, capwise, stopping them from getting a QB if they wanted one.

[paco]

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, the only reason there was this "the tiger or the tiger choice" is because he painted himself into it pretty tightly with bad contracts with so much money tied up to aging vets (and most of them declining, aging vets).  The deal for Brooks was after the first Achilles and it was while he had 2 years left on his previous contract.  Ironically... the previous deal would have expired at the end of last season.  We'd have been free of that cap hit had Howie let it play out another year.  AND, not only did Howie give him this contract, it was a HUGE contract, making him the highest paid OG in the NFL at the time.  There was no hint of Covid like that in Nov of 2019, so that part can't be a part of the evaluation, however, the injury history of Brooks had already started to build up, so its fair game to call that out for Howie overvaluing his own players.  It was foolish at the time to think that Brooks wouldn't end up missing the end of the deal he signed and it was frankly optimistic to think that he'd actually play at the same level over the next few years that he had in the previous years.  That's just not how it works in the NFL with aging players.  The Jeffery contract is the albatross that they keep wrung around their neck.  He should have never been resigned to the first restructure, let alone restructuring him twice, which then forced the third restructure to kick the can all the way to 2022 to pay it all off.  Trade for and the resign Desean Jackson to a deal that was that lucrative and had that much guaranteed money?  Terrible decision.  And the Eagles actually had more cap space occupied by Desean in 2021 (a team he didn't play for) than the combined total of both teams he played for in 2021 (Rams & Raiders).  Again, Howie overvaluing 'his' players, as Desean was a former Eagles' player.    The list goes on.   And almost all of these bad contracts were Howie bidding against himself.  That can pay off sometimes, but other times can backfire bitterly.   Almost all of these 'proactive' extensions ending up backfiring badly... creating this dilemma of how to properly dig out of it.

 

I was fully on board with the plan to take the medicine in 2020 (only a fool would have believed that there'd be no impact from Covid on the bottom dollar of the league by the time Howie started making moves in that offseason - the other 3 leagues had ALL shut-down with no end in sight... he should have hedged to the conservative, but instead went a little the other way) and 2021 and just cobble together as best they could to dig out.  But, instead of that, Howie is kicking the can into 2022 and 2023.  Not ideal.  But, since we don't have a QB... we have no chance of really competing anyway.

There is not a single point that I disagree with.  You nailed it.  I'm only replying to increase my post count.  

[Vee]

Seems like as good a year as any to go through the cap issues.  I see that he missed a window in 2020, but back then I think Howie was thinking Wentz could explode and play lights out.  COVID could have played itself out where a lesser team could have blown through better, more COVID affected teams.

In any case, like I said, you gotta pay the piper eventually, this is the year to do it.