Ja'Marr Chase (LSU WR) -- DRAFTED BY CINCINNATI #5

[Godfather]

With Smith balling out and Chase not playing, he might push him down a bit. I'll take either

[Infam]

Honestly, I think Chase may well be fools gold. I too was like: Oooohhh, damn! when I first saw him, but let's face it: He is only 6"0, he doesn't catch with his hands, is not fast and hasn't played for a year. He would just be the kind of pick Roseman goes for, just for everyone to be very disenchanted with...

[PoconoDon]

6 hours ago, Infam said:

Honestly, I think Chase may well be fools gold. I too was like: Oooohhh, damn! when I first saw him, but let's face it: He is only 6"0, he doesn't catch with his hands, is not fast and hasn't played for a year. He would just be the kind of pick Roseman goes for, just for everyone to be very disenchanted with...

I think he's the real deal. At 19 years of age he was the most physical receiver in the Championship game by far. He catches a great deal with his hands (check the highlights below), he doesn't get caught from behind, and showed no lasting effects from his knee injury a while back. To me he looks like a dominant and fearless WR. If there was a great CB in the draft, I'd probably say get that guy, but there isn't one. THAT guy is coming out in 2022 (Stingley JR.) coincidentally also from LSU.

 

[Alphagrand]

16 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

I think he's the real deal. At 19 years of age he was the most physical receiver in the Championship game by far. He catches a great deal with his hands (check the highlights below), he doesn't get caught from behind, and showed no lasting effects from his knee injury a while back. To me he looks like a dominant and fearless WR. If there was a great CB in the draft, I'd probably say get that guy, but there isn't one. THAT guy is coming out in 2022 (Stingley JR.) coincidentally also from LSU.

 

I think WR might have to be the pick in the first round again.  Wentz needs to get back on the beam again in 2021, there will be no Jeffery, Jackson, or Ertz.  JJAW will be cut.

The Eagles are 11th in total defense and 27th in total offense — the offense is preventing the Eagles from winning games.  The best OT is Sewell and he’ll be gone at #3 to CIN to protect Burrow from another injury.

If the Eagles don’t win the division they’ll likely be picking somewhere between #4 and #7.  That will put them in range to select Chase, Waddle, or Rondale Moore.  Chase seems like the most pro-ready of the group.

For those who lamented the Eagles passed over Justin Jefferson for Reagor — Chase was better in the LSU offense than Jefferson was.  Do you dare leave them both on the board in consecutive years?

[Ray75]

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think WR might have to be the pick in the first round again.  Wentz needs to get back on the beam again in 2021, there will be no Jeffery, Jackson, or Ertz.  JJAW will be cut.

The Eagles are 11th in total defense and 27th in total offense — the offense is preventing the Eagles from winning games.  The best OT is Sewell and he’ll be gone at #3 to CIN to protect Burrow from another injury.

If the Eagles don’t win the division they’ll likely be picking somewhere between #4 and #7.  That will put them in range to select Chase, Waddle, or Rondale Moore.  Chase seems like the most pro-ready of the group.

For those who lamented the Eagles passed over Justin Jefferson for Reagor — Chase was better in the LSU offense than Jefferson was.  Do you dare leave them both on the board in consecutive years?

Yep! Will be a waisted pick if CW doesn’t climb out of that big hole he’s in.

Ask yourself the question; who’s fault is it that the offense is total trash? Doug’s playcalling, CW’s horrible play or our WR’s? IMO the latter is least to blame. I bet you Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes or Wilson in combination with better playcalling would make this offense dangerous..

So what good is using a high draft pick on a WR in yet again a loaded class if both your playcaller and triggerman are garbage and we still can’t see light at the end of the tunnel?! Tell you ine thing; Chase won’t solve that!

Would I be mad if they pick him?! Not at all! Every team could use a stud like that! Do I think we’ll go back to back WR in the first?! No, I don’t!

[Alphagrand]

4 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Ask yourself the question; who’s fault is it that the offense is total trash? Doug’s playcalling, CW’s horrible play or our WR’s? IMO the latter is least to blame.

Wentz’s horrible play is the end result of many different causes; think of it the same way you would if worked for the NTSB investigating a plane crash —  it isn’t one thing.  The answer is not that he’s a bad player; he was arguably NFL MVP in his second season before his injury.

— OL is a MASH unit.  No QB, and I mean no one, would be having a good season at QB with Dillard and Brooks gone for the season before the season starts, Seumalo missing for half the season on IR, Lane Johnson hobbled for the entire season with his ankle and knee injuries.  That leaves only Kelce, and who knows how his elbow is going forward.  You will never be able to find a QB who’s had a good year with 1/5 of his OL intact

— Doug play calling.  If you watched the first 3 games you saw Wentz holding the ball in the pocket waiting for the WR and TE to come open, and almost invariably getting hit.  I believe Doug has tethered Wentz in the pocket and doesn’t want him moving or scrambling.  Wentz needs to use his legs to be effective.  The Eagles need to be a running offense at least 25-30 carries per game.  Doug habitually abandons the run game, which puts more on the QB to win/lose it.  It’s Doug’s fatal flaw as a HC and OC.  He’s turning Wentz into what Andrew Luck was in 2015.

— No continuity of personnel.  In addition to the OL unit listed above, Ertz has missed significant time, Goedert was on IR, Reagor was on IR, Jackson is now on IR, Jeffery was on PUP and is now useless.  Fulgham became the go-to guy right off the street — because there was literally no one else to go to.

— No OC.  Doug Pederson is not Sean Payton or Andy Reid or Sean McVay.  He absolutely has to have a qualified FT OC to run the offense.  Wentz has gone from Frank Reich in 2017 to Mike Groh to Press Taylor, and now there is Rich Scangarello and Marty Mornhinweg in there PT with their fingers in the pie.  Too many voices and not enough continuity, ability, or accountability.

 

If you have doubts about Wentz’s ability to be a franchise QB, then there are only two real alternatives — get the 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense to win games for him, or get him as many weapons as possible on offense.

[Ray75]

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Wentz’s horrible play is the end result of many different causes; think of it the same way you would if worked for the NTSB investigating a plane crash —  it isn’t one thing.  The answer is not that he’s a bad player; he was arguably NFL MVP in his second season before his injury.

— OL is a MASH unit.  No QB, and I mean no one, would be having a good season at QB with Dillard and Brooks gone for the season before the season starts, Seumalo missing for half the season on IR, Lane Johnson hobbled for the entire season with his ankle and knee injuries.  That leaves only Kelce, and who knows how his elbow is going forward.  You will never be able to find a QB who’s had a good year with 1/5 of his OL intact

— Doug play calling.  If you watched the first 3 games you saw Wentz holding the ball in the pocket waiting for the WR and TE to come open, and almost invariably getting hit.  I believe Doug has tethered Wentz in the pocket and doesn’t want him moving or scrambling.  Wentz needs to use his legs to be effective.  The Eagles need to be a running offense at least 25-30 carries per game.  Doug habitually abandons the run game, which puts more on the QB to win/lose it.  It’s Doug’s fatal flaw as a HC and OC.  He’s turning Wentz into what Andrew Luck was in 2015.

— No continuity of personnel.  In addition to the OL unit listed above, Ertz has missed significant time, Goedert was on IR, Reagor was on IR, Jackson is now on IR, Jeffery was on PUP and is now useless.  Fulgham became the go-to guy right off the street — because there was literally no one else to go to.

— No OC.  Doug Pederson is not Sean Payton or Andy Reid or Sean McVay.  He absolutely has to have a qualified FT OC to run the offense.  Wentz has gone from Frank Reich in 2017 to Mike Groh to Press Taylor, and now there is Rich Scangarello and Marty Mornhinweg in there PT with their fingers in the pie.  Too many voices and not enough continuity, ability, or accountability.

 

If you have doubts about Wentz’s ability to be a franchise QB, then there are only two real alternatives — get the 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense to win games for him, or get him as many weapons as possible on offense.

Sorry to hand it to you but Wilson has been playing behind a bad OL his entire career.

Doug is indeed not Reid or Payton but he has to realise that himself before he’s willing to give up play calling duties to an OC.

CW might be salvageable but this offseason should be all about self awareness and taking responsability for him. Such a smart guy should not be that irresponsable. One can only grow as a human being if he’s open to listen and learn from his mistakes.

Taking an elite receiver won’t save this offense IMO. Better playcalling and CW getting back to his 2017 form will.

And stop using missing DJax and Alshon as an excuse. They’re clearly not the future, haven’t played much the last two seasons and will be gone next year.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, Ray75 said:

Taking an elite receiver won’t save this offense IMO. Better playcalling and CW getting back to his 2017 form will.

But I'm not sure the current offensive personnel are going to get Carson back to his 2017 form either. 

I mean I'm not sure he will ever get back there but he needs help around him. 

Its a very very tricky balance here we all know that. We need talent on defense there is no doubt about that but if the organisation want to turn the QB around they need to help him. 

[Ray75]

24 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But I'm not sure the current offensive personnel are going to get Carson back to his 2017 form either. 

I mean I'm not sure he will ever get back there but he needs help around him. 

Its a very very tricky balance here we all know that. We need talent on defense there is no doubt about that but if the organisation want to turn the QB around they need to help him. 

Look...I don’t have any answers. All I’m saying is that a lot has to change to get back on track. 

CW has to get better one way or another.

The main question is; will Lurie blow it all up or will he give both Doug and Howie a chance to redeem themselves?!

Will adding an elite WR help?! Absolutely! But are Chase, Waddle or Smith franchise altering prospects?! Personally I’m not so sure. Don’t get me wrong, they’re good but are they Julio Jones or Calvin Johnson good?! I don’t think so...

Both haven’t won their franchises SB’s while both had way better QB play during their time btw.

Again...too many variables to just say we need to take a top WR in the upcoming draft. Let’s wait and see what Lurie will do first before we’ll get in heated conversations about what we should or shouldn’t do in the draft.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Ray75 said:

Look...I don’t have any answers. All I’m saying is that a lot has to change to get back on track. 

Oh I absolutely agree with you 100%. This team needs a lot of talent no doubt. I just think you start with trying to fix your QB don't you? Now a lot of that could be scheme and could be coaching but he still needs help around him on the field. 

But it's a very difficult one. 

[Ray75]

50 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh I absolutely agree with you 100%. This team needs a lot of talent no doubt. I just think you start with trying to fix your QB don't you? Now a lot of that could be scheme and could be coaching but he still needs help around him on the field. 

But it's a very difficult one. 

Okay, you’re the new GM, you stick with Doug and Carson but you bring in a new OC.

You have a top 10 pick and the following prospects are all on the board; Chase, Surtain, Davis, Parsons and Paye.

Who would you pick and why?!

[UK_EaglesFan89]

34 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Okay, you’re the new GM, you stick with Doug and Carson but you bring in a new OC.

You have a top 10 pick and the following prospects are all on the board; Chase, Surtain, Davis, Parsons and Paye.

Who would you pick and why?!

I really don't know. It all depends on the draft board, where we think we can add others and where we think we can strike a balance. 

[Ray75]

56 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I really don't know. It all depends on the draft board, where we think we can add others and where we think we can strike a balance. 

Come on, buddy! Just pick one! There’s literally no right or wrong answer here but you have to take the entire class into account.

Deep at all those positions except for DE. There are only two edge rushers I’d pick in the top 15 for example.

[Infam]

6 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

I think he's the real deal. At 19 years of age he was the most physical receiver in the Championship game by far. He catches a great deal with his hands (check the highlights below), he doesn't get caught from behind, and showed no lasting effects from his knee injury a while back. To me he looks like a dominant and fearless WR. If there was a great CB in the draft, I'd probably say get that guy, but there isn't one. THAT guy is coming out in 2022 (Stingley JR.) coincidentally also from LSU.

 

Everyone is entitled to his opinion. Like I said, I was impressed with him at first glance too. Then I watched more and more (WR/RB draft prospects is right up my alley), and I did not see him use his hands much at all. He ran a 4.66 and is expected to run a 4.5, at 6"0, and just because you can look great besides Jefferson, an elite line and a good QB burning third rate CBs doesnt make you a strong prospect for the NFL in my book. Honestly, I don't even think he is the best WR in the draft. I would pick Waddle over him any day, and i feel like when it comes to WRs my track record is flawless so far.

I think Surtain is that elite CB. He's 6"2. can run and tackle, elite level ball skills. I think he is much more likely to be a stud than Chase.

Besides that thinking that there will be a stud a year later never leads to anything. Will we pick in the top5 next year? Who knows, but I for one don't think so. I heard that before with Barkley, too. And we weren't anywhere close to picking him either. We would just end up with second rate CB fixes that don't do the trick at all.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Ray75 said:

Come on, buddy! Just pick one! There’s literally no right or wrong answer here but you have to take the entire class into account.

Deep at all those positions except for DE. There are only two edge rushers I’d pick in the top 15 for example.

I'd probably go... Surtain. I may go Parsons but I think overall either would be a great addition to the defense.

[Ray75]

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'd probably go... Surtain. I may go Parsons but I think overall either would be a great addition to the defense.

Both terrific choices! Any of them would be IMO.

I’m leaning towards Paye. Athletic freak of a pass rusher at 6’4 ft and 270 lbs. Runs a 3 cone drill faster than the majority of DB’s and WR’s. Will blow up the combine...

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Both terrific choices! Any of them would be IMO.

I’m leaning towards Paye. Athletic freak of a pass rusher at 6’4 ft and 270 lbs. Runs a 3 cone drill faster than the majority of DB’s and WR’s. Will blow up the combine...

I think DE is a major need for this team. BG is balling out but how much longer can he do that? Barnett is a good player but he isn't a DE #1 so this team needs to add another really top talent and I think Paye could be that guy.

[Ray75]

37 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think DE is a major need for this team. BG is balling out but how much longer can he do that? Barnett is a good player but he isn't a DE #1 so this team needs to add another really top talent and I think Paye could be that guy.

No, no, no...Paye will be the guy if we wind up with a top 5-10 pick. 😁

Listen...took a WR last year, OL the year before, take a pass rusher every 4-5 years, last time they took a CB is almost 20 years ago and haven’t drafted a S or LB in the first in...what?!...before you were even born...

DE is the most plausible selection IMO unless...a new regime with a completely different philosophy has taken over...

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, Ray75 said:

No, no, no...Paye will be the guy if we wind up with a top 5-10 pick. 😁

Listen...took a WR last year, OL the year before, take a pass rusher every 4-5 years, last time they took a CB is almost 20 years ago and haven’t drafted a S or LB in the first in...what?!...before you were even born...

DE is the most plausible selection IMO unless...a completely new regime with a completely different philosophy has taken over...

I think DE could be the selection even if there is a new regime. DE is a really important position and we have a need there. I mean sure if it is a new offensive HC and the GM supports him that offense needs an overhaul then maybe they go a different route? Maybe they even go QB if they are within striking distance of one of the top 2 guys but I can definitely see DE being the pick regardless. Or CB of course. Outside CB is a desperate need.

[Ray75]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think DE could be the selection even if there is a new regime. DE is a really important position and we have a need there. I mean sure if it is a new offensive HC and the GM supports him that offense needs an overhaul then maybe they go a different route? Maybe they even go QB if they are within striking distance of one of the top 2 guys but I can definitely see DE being the pick regardless. Or CB of course. Outside CB is a desperate need.

I’d be happy with any of the guys I mentioned and Paye is not just a man crush. He just makes sense for them in the top 10.

This organisation clearly is uncomfortable using high draft picks on other positions than OL, DL and QB. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Ray75 said:

This organisation clearly is uncomfortable using high draft picks on other positions than OL, DL and QB. 

Let's see if any potential future regime feels the same. 

[Ray75]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Let's see if any potential future regime feels the same. 

Not holding my breath. It’s been that way for decades. It’s in their DNA.

[PoconoDon]

6 hours ago, Infam said:

Everyone is entitled to his opinion. Like I said, I was impressed with him at first glance too. Then I watched more and more (WR/RB draft prospects is right up my alley), and I did not see him use his hands much at all. He ran a 4.66 and is expected to run a 4.5, at 6"0, and just because you can look great besides Jefferson, an elite line and a good QB burning third rate CBs doesnt make you a strong prospect for the NFL in my book. Honestly, I don't even think he is the best WR in the draft. I would pick Waddle over him any day, and i feel like when it comes to WRs my track record is flawless so far.

I think Surtain is that elite CB. He's 6"2. can run and tackle, elite level ball skills. I think he is much more likely to be a stud than Chase.

Besides that thinking that there will be a stud a year later never leads to anything. Will we pick in the top5 next year? Who knows, but I for one don't think so. I heard that before with Barkley, too. And we weren't anywhere close to picking him either. We would just end up with second rate CB fixes that don't do the trick at all.

 

It's all good. We'll know in a few years if any of these guys turn out to be great NFL players. We all feel more strongly about certain guys and we should. That's what makes the conversations worthwhile. I agree that waiting for a guy to fall to you isn't the way to secure a targeted prospect for your team. You have to get in position ahead of time to do that. For Stingley, I would do that without hesitation. I can't see his ceiling because it's so high.

[Infam]

2 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

It's all good. We'll know in a few years if any of these guys turn out to be great NFL players. We all feel more strongly about certain guys and we should. That's what makes the conversations worthwhile. I agree that waiting for a guy to fall to you isn't the way to secure a targeted prospect for your team. You have to get in position ahead of time to do that. For Stingley, I would do that without hesitation. I can't see his ceiling because it's so high.

As much as I like Slay, he will be 30 next season. Might not even be the worst move to get both of them... 😄

[GreenbleedinNC]

1) Twyman-DL  2-Surratt-LB  3) pick a CB OR Terrance Marshall(WR-LSU). He is overshadowed by Chase who should go first ,but why spend a 1 when you can get  a similar guy in the same offense in 3. We can ruin either one easliy lol. I am assuming we pick around 9th-14th and a 6th pick I want(since we have 4 of those) is Zac Thomas QB- Appalachian state