Rebuilding the team - discuss the future of the Eagles (orig post Sept 2020)

[Road to Victory]

The future is pretty bleak right now. This is a team with very few young, cheap talented players and is filled with older, overpaid veterans. On top of that they are way over the cap next year and will need to cut several players including Jeffery and DJax, potentially Graham, Barnett and Malik Jackson, while potentially trading Ertz. While most of those guys are on the decline, they are still valuable starters on this team. 
 

With no cap space, they will need to draft well which they haven’t done well with Howie. Next year, they might be worse then this year because of the lack of the talent. I’m sure they’ll be transitioning to coaching and front office changes as well. I hope Lurie sees what’s going on and makes the necessary changes in the Front Office to be successful again. The first thing they need is a real GM who has the final say on personnel decisions. 
 

[EagleJoe8]

Until Lurie makes the obvious decision regarding Howie, what we see is what we’ll continue to get. 

[20dawk4life]

I'm not too worried about the cap space. When Paco posted that thread the other day I did some research and we can get to 20 million under with like 5 moves or something. 

I agree we need a rebuild. Peters needs to go, he's just being abused. Where's Driscoll? He got hurt during the skins game and I haven't heard anything. 

The WRs need time to grow, learn, and build chemistry with Wentz. We knew that would be hard for rookies this year. 

Sanders is star. 

Ertz still has it and Goedert is a good TE but gets banged up a decent amount. 

The defense blows. 

[Traveler Vic]

1 hour ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Until Lurie makes the obvious decision regarding Howie, what we see is what we’ll continue to get. 

Howie has to go back back to accounting, where he came from. We need a new GM!

[EagleJoe8]

5 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

Howie has to go back back to accounting, where he came from. We need a new GM!

Howie just needs to go away altogether. He’s terrible or over rated in every aspect of his job. He used to be a "cap guru”.  He’s not that anymore. 31 other teams manage to field teams within the cap, and a number of those are good to great teams consistently. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

The way I look at it... What players on this roster would we absolutely want to keep?

For me... Sanders, Slay (though for decent trade value given where this teams at I would not rule it out) and Lane. Oh Reagor too and then Seumalo, Pryor and Driscoll because they are solid enough and are young. Perhaps Wallace because he is a young guy. 

Other than that though I don't think any other player is a must keep. Simply because no other player is that good. Every other player should be on the trade block to see what we can get for them. 

Ertz is absolutely one we have to trade. I'd argue Cox too although not sure anyone is going to trade for him. 

This team is in a cap hole yet doesn't have the talent to reflect that. 

[JetroLot]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The way I look at it... What players on this roster would we absolutely want to keep?

For me... Sanders, Slay (though for decent trade value given where this teams at I would not rule it out) and Lane. Oh Reagor too and then Seumalo, Pryor and Driscoll because they are

The entire season you've been telling people how much Slay sucks. As of 9/21 you still weren't sure about Slay as a player and criticizing him. Now he's an "absolute keeper" huh? 

Just hilarious watching you flip flop. In three weeks he's gone from being garbage to you're not sure to now he's an absolute keeper. No, he's been outstanding all season. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 minutes ago, stinkfist said:

The entire season you've been telling people how much Slay sucks. As of 9/21 you still weren't sure about Slay as a player and criticizing him. Now he's an "absolute keeper" huh? 

Just hilarious watching you flip flop. In three weeks he's gone from being garbage to you're not sure to now he's an absolute keeper. No, he's been outstanding all season. 

What? I haven't been saying how much he sucks. I think he's missed some plays and a couple on potentially big moments but I haven't been really critical of him. 

[PaulyB384]

7 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Howie just needs to go away altogether. He’s terrible or over rated in every aspect of his job. He used to be a "cap guru”.  He’s not that anymore. 31 other teams manage to field teams within the cap, and a number of those are good to great teams consistently. 

I agree & disagree- Howie is a pretty good cap manager. & he is good with dealing for FAs The problem is the team gets overly sentimental on certain players and keeps them too long. And that is directly and indirectly related to not drafting well to replenish the roster. We need a GM that knows how to evaluate talent.

[EagleJoe8]

12 minutes ago, PaulyB384 said:

I agree & disagree- Howie is a pretty good cap manager. & he is good with dealing for FAs The problem is the team gets overly sentimental on certain players and keeps them too long. And that is directly and indirectly related to not drafting well to replenish the roster. We need a GM that knows how to evaluate talent.

Definitely agree on being too sentimental and the draft. I think his cap prowess has been overstated though and it looks like it’ll be hitting us hard next year. 

[Thrive]

This current team looks completely different with a QB playing at a high level.

Ignoring all the background noise going on behind the scenes, Carson Wentz is the problem with this team. I hate to admit it but it’s the truth. I think the rest of our team has played bad enough for us to have at least two wins so far. 

The task for the offseason is to fix the QB situation.

[PaulyB384]

6 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Definitely agree on being too sentimental and the draft. I think his cap prowess has been overstated though and it looks like it’ll be hitting us hard next year. 

Agree 

[LacesOut]

If the QB was playing well, they would be 2-1.  Not saying this team is built to win a SB, but they were built to win a Division and be in the playoffs.

The injuries really really hurt too. 

[EagleJoe8]

4 minutes ago, LacesOut said:

If the QB was playing well, they would be 2-1.  Not saying this team is built to win a SB, but they were built to win a Division and be in the playoffs.

The injuries really really hurt too.

That’s been too common a theme. 

[SBorBust]

16 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Until Lurie makes the obvious decision regarding Howie, what we see is what we’ll continue to get. 

A Super Bowl?

[NOTW]

They won the SB and made the playoffs 2 years in a row after that, so they don't think there's a problem yet.  Last year they started to realize they needed youth and speed so they started letting older players go.  They are like the Reid years when he would say they're just a hair off.  They think they need tweaks, but they need to rebuild.

They have regressed since the Super Bowl.  Winning was amazing and a great year.  I understand them thinking they could recapture with some tweaks the following year but last season showed how flawed they were.

They did shake things up with offensive coaches and got new leadership over conditioning and medical.  None of that has worked.  They did draft some speed and traded for Slay.  But there are gaping holes and injuries are plaguing this team for about 4 years in a row now.  Poor drafting, bad contracts, low confidence, erratic QB play from "the franchise", poor decision from the coaches...things went from bad to much, much worse very quickly.

They will think all they need to do is retool not blow it up and rebuild and they will continue to have 6-8 wins at best for a couple seasons if they don't make major changes. 

[EagleJoe8]

4 minutes ago, SBorBust said:

A Super Bowl?

We got that because Howie hit free agency out of the park that year. It’s clearly not a sustainable way to do business. 

[Madriver]

6 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

We got that because Howie hit free agency out of the park that year. It’s clearly not a sustainable way to do business. 

Exactly, and not only that but teams have wised up to Howie's ways. We screwed over Miami and couple of times in trade deals, for instance, only to have that team sink lower. Howie wants us to be a QB factory but nobody is willing to deal with him anymore because he's too much of a shark.

[NOTW]

Step 1: Fire Howie. 

No, don't keep him to do contracts.  Then they can just fire the next GM and hand it back to Howie.  Nope, get him out of the organization.

There are other teams in the league with success managing the cap, negotiating contracts and making trades with other teams.  Howie USED to be good at those, but then he started making bad trades, bad contract extensions that have hurt the cap and his terrible drafting hurts the team more than his cap managements helps.  He has absolutely no business being over the draft which is the primary way to build the team.  He succeeded at buying a championship with some good free agent and trade moves and they were able to catch lightning in a bottle with Foles playing well and the team rallying around the underdog mantra.

Then they got cocky and kept believing their own hype.  The team is not hungry anymore.  Some guys are lazy, some are entitled, some are just collecting a paycheck.  It stands out when you see young guys like Sanders, Ward, Goedert giving a lot of effort and making plays.  I will credit Brandon Graham, he gave a lot of effort yesterday and made plays.  Kelce always gives 100% too.  But overall the team isn't hungry anymore.  Even Lane Johnson was getting beat a lot yesterday and has had injury concerns.  

Time for change and it starts with the GM.  

Step 2: Get voices outside the organization to help you pick a proper GM.

They had the right idea hiring Joe Douglas, it just didn't work out but keep that philosophy:  look at guys from successful organizations that draft well and have a solid philosophy.  Then EVERYTHING you do is filtered through that philosophy.  Hiring coaches, scouts, personnel evaluators, the players you draft and sign and trade for, the conditioning, the way you practice, the scheme, the play calling, everything.  They have to stop changing their identity based on who the coach is.  Yes, they should be innovative and continue to grow and evolve but within the guidelines of the philosophy.  For example, you can value building both lines and having strong defense but still adapt scheme and players to the changing landscape of the NFL.

Step 3: Coaches

A new GM might want to clean house.  But I would say Doug has earned at least another year or two to work within a new structure.  Doug needs to have an OC to call plays and he can game manage and be aggressive.  You want to keep Fipp, Stoutland and probably Duce.  Schwartz' contract is up and he'll be gone anyway so a new DC can hire new coaches.  I'd also be ok if a new GM wanted Doug gone to start over.

Step 4: Purge the personnel department

Blow it up, rebuild it.  Bring in staff from other teams.  They need better scouts and a new structure where the GM has final say on the draft but is someone knowledgeable to make those decisions, and a solid team building their draft board. Utilizing analytics is great but you need a balance of "the football guy" who just knows what works and doesn't.  No team drafts perfect and there are always hits and misses but this team cannot draft.  The only good draft picks they seem to make are the guys that everyone including fans know they're going to be a good player. Case in point, they draft Sanders who everyone thought would be a good RB and they draft JJAW in the same round while passing on other better WR options.

Step 5: Purge the roster

Salary cap issues, injuries, and age aside, complacency and laziness have also set in.  They need to start this now by having a fire sale before the trade deadline.  Collect draft picks, dump salaries and at the end of the season release players or let walk in free agency and get those comp picks.  People will debate Wentz but contract wise you have to keep him for now.  You may want to bench him and see what you have in Hurts but the next GM will decide the QB position for the future.

You probably keep most rookies and 2nd year players to see how they do in camp next year (but JJAW should be cut like yesterday).  Their contracts are not a problem anyway and can always be cut if better players are selected next season.  But of the core guys you keep:

Offense:  Sanders, Scott, Goedert, Reagor, Ward, Kelce, Lane.  You need replacements for Kelce and Lane to develop as they don't have as much time left.  

Defense: Slay, Hargrave...honestly they do have to keep some defenders just to have bodies but there's not much else worth mentioning.  Need a total rebuild of the defense.  Cox and Graham have been good but salary and age means they have to go. 

Step 6: Medical and conditioning

They hired new directors over these areas and injuries are just as much a problem as before.  They need to really rethink this and analyze it.  Are they scouting players with injury history or poor conditioning or from "weak" conferences with "soft" players?  Revisit the Chip Kelly era where despite anything else you didn't like about him the team was healthy.  Players said they felt well conditioned as the season went on.  Find what was working well and implement major changes.  The injuries are just at an absurd level at this point.

 

[pallidrone]

2 hours ago, Thrive said:

This current team looks completely different with a QB playing at a high level.

Ignoring all the background noise going on behind the scenes, Carson Wentz is the problem with this team. I hate to admit it but it’s the truth. I think the rest of our team has played bad enough for us to have at least two wins so far. 

The task for the offseason is to fix the QB situation.

This 100%

The problem is the QB and the biggest quandary for the team. They gave him a big contract and put all their eggs in his basket. Now he is playing bad and that is reverberating down to the rest of the team. The defense is playing bad because they are either on the field all the time or in short field situation due to turnovers. The play calling is suffering because the HC cant trust his QB to execute properly. You have to hope that he starts playing better because you can't put in the rookie. Once you do that and if the backup plays any better then your 'franchise' QB will completely lose the locker room.

He is just playing terribly right now and I don't know if he has the fortitude to pull himself out of this.

[time2rock]

8 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

This 100%

The problem is the QB and the biggest quandary for the team. They gave him a big contract and put all their eggs in his basket. Now he is playing bad and that is reverberating down to the rest of the team. The defense is playing bad because they are either on the field all the time or in short field situation due to turnovers. The play calling is suffering because the HC cant trust his QB to execute properly. You have to hope that he starts playing better because you can't put in the rookie. Once you do that and if the backup plays any better then your 'franchise' QB will completely lose the locker room.

He is just playing terribly right now and I don't know if he has the fortitude to pull himself out of this.

Well Doug called 47 plays on offense for Wentz to throw the ball to only 24 called rushing plays.  I'd argue the opposite where the playcalling isn't helping Wentz is as much a factor as Doug’s lack of trust him him.  It isn't as though we were in some huge hole most of the game warranting the need to go pass heavy.  Plus Sanders was electric earlier in the 1st half when he got his touches - why adjust away from the run?  And in week 1 where we saw the same lack of balance it made no sense to throw so much when Washington was teeing off on Wentz all day long.  

[hoosierdaddy]

If I'm GM'ing this team next year, here's a very topline of how I'd approach the rebuild:

1. I'd realize that we've already taken the most important step. Since I'm the GM, that means Howie no longer has the job. So well done Lurie, you manned up and did what was necessary to turn this embodiment of a school shooting masquerading as a professional football team around.

2. Keep Doug but let him know he's on a short leash. His #1 priority is to find a QB coach who will clean up Carson's mechanics. Fire Schwarz and find a DC who is better at game-planning and who can build a defensive coaching staff who can actually develop talent (it's going to make me sick watching Rasul Douglas flourish in Carolina -- and who knows, Sidney may prove some doubters wrong at some point as well).

3. Start assembling young talent -- that means a few things:

• Some old overpriced talent needs to go.Desean, Alshon, Malik Jackson, McLeod and Peters are no longer Eagles
• I do keep Graham, Ertz, Lane and Kelce as the older well-compensated veteran leaders. If I need to part ways with one of those guys, it's Ertz unfortunately. Definitely don't want to cut bait on Graham. He's a high-character guy who can still make plays at a premium position.
• I approach Cox about a restructured contract. If he doesn't play ball, I'll seriously consider cutting him when it's financially feasible.
• I'm also approaching Brooks about a contract restructure. I make it clear that he's wanted here as he's a talented and high-character guy, but at this point his health is too much of a red flag. I think we're stuck with his contract for another season or two, so if he doesn't agree we just bend over and take it until it's feasible to part ways. If he does agree, I put him in the same veteran leadership group with the guys mentioned above.
• The draft: with our top 10 pick in the first round (man I hope we don't win a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the season and push our pick back to 15ish -- but we probably will...) I'm taking the BPA at O-line or D-line. I don't care about the position, we need to get more talent on both lines.
• I also make sure I leave the draft meeting as much of the following criteria as possible:
  • No fewer than seven picks made. This recent trend of five picks per draft and whiffing on 80% of them is a main reason we're tying Cincinnati at home with a rookie QB
  • At least one start-able LB (which means that's probably our 2nd round selection)
  • At least four total linemen taken (the first rounder, + three others at some point in the draft)
• Free agency -- very little activity. All contracts need to be reasonable which means role players at best. A veteran linebacker, a veteran safety, a #2 RB and veteran possession WR to compliment our young speedsters (of which Howie used 50% of our draft capital on last year)
• Also, I'm showing JJSMFH and Nate Gerry the door within the first hour of accepting the job. Send the team a message right away. 

With all this, we're probably going 6-10 at best in 2021, but at least we'd be starting to head in the right direction.

[Mike030270]

Doug was asked about giving up calling plays. He said no

[pallidrone]

15 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Well Doug called 47 plays on offense for Wentz to throw the ball to only 24 called rushing plays.  I'd argue the opposite where the playcalling isn't helping Wentz is as much a factor as Doug’s lack of trust him him.  It isn't as though we were in some huge hole most of the game warranting the need to go pass heavy.  Plus Sanders was electric earlier in the 1st half when he got his touches - why adjust away from the run?  And in week 1 where we saw the same lack of balance it made no sense to throw so much when Washington was teeing off on Wentz all day long.  

When I say it is suffering, I mean from a creative POV. You cant be creative on offense when you cant execute on the simplest things.

Doug learned from AR who learned from Holmgren, who all believe that if a QB is struggling, don't scale back on throwing the ball, accelerate it.

[EagleVA]

18 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

potentially trading Ertz.

I'm thinking we unload Cox also, we need draft picks to get younger talent, don't wait until he's 35.