Rebuilding the team - discuss the future of the Eagles (orig post Sept 2020)

[NOTW]

Salary cap issues, age and injury means you have to get rid of some of these guys even who are performing well.  Ertz, Cox, Graham, McLeod, Brooks, Jeffrey, DeSean Jackson, Peters, Malik Jackson, maybe more.

[CaliEagle]

45 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Salary cap issues, age and injury means you have to get rid of some of these guys even who are performing well.  Ertz, Cox, Graham, McLeod, Brooks, Jeffrey, DeSean Jackson, Peters, Malik Jackson, maybe more.

If we are bad with those guys, then it makes it easier to move on from them.  But, yep, most of those guys, if not all, will probably be gone.  Obviously, you would start with Graham, McLeod, Jeffery, both Jacksons and Peters. But, Graham is approaching his mid 30s, so even though it is hard...he needs to go.  I would try to restructure Cox and see if you can get a deal done with Ertz, provided Ertz plays this year at a high level.  But, even then, it's not out of the question that both Cox and Ertz could be gone, too.  Maybe see what you can get in a trade soon.

[Road to Victory]

12 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The way I look at it... What players on this roster would we absolutely want to keep?

For me... Sanders, Slay (though for decent trade value given where this teams at I would not rule it out) and Lane. Oh Reagor too and then Seumalo, Pryor and Driscoll because they are solid enough and are young. Perhaps Wallace because he is a young guy. 

Other than that though I don't think any other player is a must keep. Simply because no other player is that good. Every other player should be on the trade block to see what we can get for them. 

Ertz is absolutely one we have to trade. I'd argue Cox too although not sure anyone is going to trade for him. 

This team is in a cap hole yet doesn't have the talent to reflect that. 

Slay is good now but when the Eagles are ready to compete in a few years he’ll be 32 years old. Not sure you want to count on a 32 year old CB as part of your rebuilding process. 

[NOTW]

4 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Slay is good now but when the Eagles are ready to compete in a few years he’ll be 32 years old. Not sure you want to count on a 32 year old CB as part of your rebuilding process. 

https://overthecap.com/player/darius-slay/2358/

 

[kentwo]

Don't forget Goedert. 

He's worth keeping. 

[GeorgeM37]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Well Doug called 47 plays on offense for Wentz to throw the ball to only 24 called rushing plays.  I'd argue the opposite where the playcalling isn't helping Wentz is as much a factor as Doug’s lack of trust him him.  It isn't as though we were in some huge hole most of the game warranting the need to go pass heavy.  Plus Sanders was electric earlier in the 1st half when he got his touches - why adjust away from the run?  And in week 1 where we saw the same lack of balance it made no sense to throw so much when Washington was teeing off on Wentz all day long.  

That is what had me scratching my head bald....Sanders was averaging almost 10 yds per carry and then you just pull him? For who, for what??

[EagleMatt]

0-2-1 baby!!

[birdgang]

Don't you guys think we need a legitimate talent evaluator for college players? I know howie has final say on who the draft picks are but who puts together the board? Maybe bringing in some guys who actually know how to evaluate college talent and advise howie could be the cure

[Road to Victory]

9 minutes ago, NOTW said:

https://overthecap.com/player/darius-slay/2358/

 

Well that answers that. When Slay’s 32 he will not be here with a $20m cap figure unless of course, Howie is still GM. Then he might pull another restructure like Jeffery and be here forever. 
 

It looks like basically a two year deal. Two years that the Eagles will really suck.

[PoconoDon]

Rebuilding this team into a true dynastic championship team, is a fantasy as long as Howie Roseman is in place. The probability of Jeffrey Lurie parting ways with Howie is extremely low. The probability of Howie accepting that he needs to step aside because he harms the team through the draft and kicking the cap can down the road is 0. We look to be stuck in a rut, from which escape is unlikely. Replacing Howie is step 1. I suspect the Eagles never take step 1, so the rebuild never truly happens.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

36 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Slay is good now but when the Eagles are ready to compete in a few years he’ll be 32 years old. Not sure you want to count on a 32 year old CB as part of your rebuilding process. 

Then you trade him if the value is half decent? Which is what I said...

[Road to Victory]

9 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Rebuilding this team into a true dynastic championship team, is a fantasy as long as Howie Roseman is in place. The probability of Jeffrey Lurie parting ways with Howie is extremely low. The probability of Howie accepting that he needs to step aside because he harms the team through the draft and kicking the cap can down the road is 0. We look to be stuck in a rut, from which escape is unlikely. Replacing Howie is step 1. I suspect the Eagles never take step 1, so the rebuild never truly happens.

I’m afraid you’re right but hoping you’re wrong. Lurie’s shocked us before when he took banished Howie to the basement and gave Chip full control. Then he shocked us again by firing Chip soon after. 
 

Howie will have a million excuses such as injuries, no real preseason, less scouting events, etc but he is the cause of this mess. He completely mismanaged the cap, signed the wrong free agents, re-signed his own players that he should’ve let go and missed on the draft year after year. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Howie will have a million excuses such as injuries, no real preseason, less scouting events, etc but he is the cause of this mess. He completely mismanaged the cap, signed the wrong free agents, re-signed his own players that he should’ve let go and missed on the draft year after year. 

He may use those excuses but none of them have any weight. It was the same for every other team and others seemed to find some early success in the draft. The college year was a full go so plenty of time to evaluate players then. 

The injuries? The excuse is wearing thin now. Every team suffers injuries. Do we suffer more than most? Id say we are at the high end of the league yes but our biggest issue is depth. And that's an issue because of poor drafting and wasted resources. 

[time2rock]

1 hour ago, GeorgeM37 said:

That is what had me scratching my head bald....Sanders was averaging almost 10 yds per carry and then you just pull him? For who, for what??

Doug has the same maddening tendencies as the guy who mentored him (Reid).  

[EazyEaglez]

Until they completely remove Howie Roseman from the equation they will be stuck in their current situation. Jeff Lurie needs to end the Howie experience once and for all. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Until they completely remove Howie Roseman from the equation they will be stuck in their current situation. Jeff Lurie needs to end the Howie experience once and for all. 

Amen to the brother! Time for Howie to go. We thank him for the SB.

[GeorgeM37]

19 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Doug has the same maddening tendencies as the guy who mentored him (Reid).  

I couldn't agree with you more.....maddening is an understatement!!

[CaliEagle]

56 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

I’m afraid you’re right but hoping you’re wrong. Lurie’s shocked us before when he took banished Howie to the basement and gave Chip full control. Then he shocked us again by firing Chip soon after. 
 

Howie will have a million excuses such as injuries, no real preseason, less scouting events, etc but he is the cause of this mess. He completely mismanaged the cap, signed the wrong free agents, re-signed his own players that he should’ve let go and missed on the draft year after year. 

Howie banished himself in the basement. Howie wanted to hire Chip because Chip was a hot commodity that had turned down other teams. So, Howie sold Lurie on Chip. Then, Chip ended up wanting personnel control. So, how could Howie suddenly turn against the Chip hire when he was selling Lurie  on him?  He couldn't. So, Lurie, hearing how much of a genius Chip was, gave Chip personnel control...not to punish Howie...but to make Chip happy. So, Howie learned his lesson and he and Lurie hired Doug who is no threat to personnel control. I don't think you will ever see Howie push to hire a HC who wants personnel control. Now, he will look for a "yes, man" so he can keep his job. So, ultimately, Lurie will have to decide when he wants to can Howie and I agree with PoconoDon...I don't see that happening soon.

[NOTW]

9 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Until they completely remove Howie Roseman from the equation they will be stuck in their current situation. Jeff Lurie needs to end the Howie experience once and for all. 

Agree.

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Amen to the brother! Time for Howie to go. We thank him for the SB.

The SB was awesome, and no regime delivered a championship since 1960 before that.  So we'll forever be grateful.

But you have to adapt quickly in the NFL and while they made the playoffs the following 2 years they have been on the decline and drafted terribly.  Just time for a change.  

[EagleJoe8]

Sadly, I fear getting Lurie’s board is going to be a struggle. 

[Diehardfan]

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

Step 1: Fire Howie. 

No, don't keep him to do contracts.  Then they can just fire the next GM and hand it back to Howie.  Nope, get him out of the organization.

There are other teams in the league with success managing the cap, negotiating contracts and making trades with other teams.  Howie USED to be good at those, but then he started making bad trades, bad contract extensions that have hurt the cap and his terrible drafting hurts the team more than his cap managements helps.  He has absolutely no business being over the draft which is the primary way to build the team.  He succeeded at buying a championship with some good free agent and trade moves and they were able to catch lightning in a bottle with Foles playing well and the team rallying around the underdog mantra.

Then they got cocky and kept believing their own hype.  The team is not hungry anymore.  Some guys are lazy, some are entitled, some are just collecting a paycheck.  It stands out when you see young guys like Sanders, Ward, Goedert giving a lot of effort and making plays.  I will credit Brandon Graham, he gave a lot of effort yesterday and made plays.  Kelce always gives 100% too.  But overall the team isn't hungry anymore.  Even Lane Johnson was getting beat a lot yesterday and has had injury concerns.  

Time for change and it starts with the GM.  

Step 2: Get voices outside the organization to help you pick a proper GM.

They had the right idea hiring Joe Douglas, it just didn't work out but keep that philosophy:  look at guys from successful organizations that draft well and have a solid philosophy.  Then EVERYTHING you do is filtered through that philosophy.  Hiring coaches, scouts, personnel evaluators, the players you draft and sign and trade for, the conditioning, the way you practice, the scheme, the play calling, everything.  They have to stop changing their identity based on who the coach is.  Yes, they should be innovative and continue to grow and evolve but within the guidelines of the philosophy.  For example, you can value building both lines and having strong defense but still adapt scheme and players to the changing landscape of the NFL.

Step 3: Coaches

A new GM might want to clean house.  But I would say Doug has earned at least another year or two to work within a new structure.  Doug needs to have an OC to call plays and he can game manage and be aggressive.  You want to keep Fipp, Stoutland and probably Duce.  Schwartz' contract is up and he'll be gone anyway so a new DC can hire new coaches.  I'd also be ok if a new GM wanted Doug gone to start over.

Step 4: Purge the personnel department

Blow it up, rebuild it.  Bring in staff from other teams.  They need better scouts and a new structure where the GM has final say on the draft but is someone knowledgeable to make those decisions, and a solid team building their draft board. Utilizing analytics is great but you need a balance of "the football guy" who just knows what works and doesn't.  No team drafts perfect and there are always hits and misses but this team cannot draft.  The only good draft picks they seem to make are the guys that everyone including fans know they're going to be a good player. Case in point, they draft Sanders who everyone thought would be a good RB and they draft JJAW in the same round while passing on other better WR options.

Step 5: Purge the roster

Salary cap issues, injuries, and age aside, complacency and laziness have also set in.  They need to start this now by having a fire sale before the trade deadline.  Collect draft picks, dump salaries and at the end of the season release players or let walk in free agency and get those comp picks.  People will debate Wentz but contract wise you have to keep him for now.  You may want to bench him and see what you have in Hurts but the next GM will decide the QB position for the future.

You probably keep most rookies and 2nd year players to see how they do in camp next year (but JJAW should be cut like yesterday).  Their contracts are not a problem anyway and can always be cut if better players are selected next season.  But of the core guys you keep:

Offense:  Sanders, Scott, Goedert, Reagor, Ward, Kelce, Lane.  You need replacements for Kelce and Lane to develop as they don't have as much time left.  

Defense: Slay, Hargrave...honestly they do have to keep some defenders just to have bodies but there's not much else worth mentioning.  Need a total rebuild of the defense.  Cox and Graham have been good but salary and age means they have to go. 

Step 6: Medical and conditioning

They hired new directors over these areas and injuries are just as much a problem as before.  They need to really rethink this and analyze it.  Are they scouting players with injury history or poor conditioning or from "weak" conferences with "soft" players?  Revisit the Chip Kelly era where despite anything else you didn't like about him the team was healthy.  Players said they felt well conditioned as the season went on.  Find what was working well and implement major changes.  The injuries are just at an absurd level at this point.

 

Great post. Someone like NIck Caserio would be a target to me. He just got extended and has been there forever, but GM would be a promotion. He has language in his contract that prevents him from interviewing, but I'm not sure how. 

[manz2821]

31 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Amen to the brother! Time for Howie to go. We thank him for the SB.

100% we need to clean house. Get a new GM and let him choose his own coach. I mean look where the niners were at the end of the Chip Kelly season. 2-14. They cleaned house. Drafted great and they were in the SB 2- 3 years later. We need something overly drastic like that. Which is good for us as our division is bad and I don't see any team there making it to the SB

[NOTW]

25 minutes ago, manz2821 said:

100% we need to clean house. Get a new GM and let him choose his own coach. I mean look where the niners were at the end of the Chip Kelly season. 2-14. They cleaned house. Drafted great and they were in the SB 2- 3 years later. We need something overly drastic like that. Which is good for us as our division is bad and I don't see any team there making it to the SB

That's a very realistic turnaround if the right moves are made.

Unfortunately, this will continue for at least 2 more years where at best they will win 7 games and claim they're close.

[EazyEaglez]

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

Salary cap issues, age and injury means you have to get rid of some of these guys even who are performing well.  Ertz, Cox, Graham, McLeod, Brooks, Jeffrey, DeSean Jackson, Peters, Malik Jackson, maybe more.

I say move all of them. Trade them and get what you can. It’s time for a full rebuild, but I admit I’m not confident the GM would make good selections even if he had 30 picks in the drafts.

[Road to Victory]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I say move all of them. Trade them and get what you can. It’s time for a full rebuild, but I admit I’m not confident the GM would make good selections even if he had 30 picks in the drafts.

It’s funny that Jacksonville dumped all their top players and I’m not sure we could even beat them right now. 
 

Jacksonville did it the wrong way though, they dumped young Pro-Bowl type players entering free agency.