Classified documents being kept in Pop Pop's garage.  But Trump...

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Considering where you get your news information, I hope you have malware protection and a good anti-virus program.

No doubt sources with links to the official government information are concerning to people who wish to remain ignorant.  Like you.

Quote

 

Reports compiled by the conservative watchdog group National Legal and Policy Center (NLPC) from disclosures to the Department of Education showed that Penn collected more than $67.6 million in donations and contracts from China between 2013 and 2019. The vast majority of that money, $47.7 million, flowed during the three years Biden was employed by the university, the records show.

The Chinese money poured in most rapidly in the four months after Biden opened the center in February 2018, a period during which nearly $20 million came through, including a $14.5 million anonymous gift on May 28, 2018, according to a complaint the NLPC filed with the U.S. government in 2020. 

 

 

10 hours ago, lynched1 said:

How do you tell a fraudulent, disabled president that he won't be seeking a second term without telling him he won't be seeking a second term.

This is just a nudge. I hope he holds out.

He does not want a second term

It's unfortunately fairly common for classified documents to be misplaced. Document control exists as a thing because of it. 

It's not a new problem: https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2012/05/wnrc_missing/

In the minds of right wingers, this narrative has been constructed that any and all classified documents that end up in possession of "average citizens" would mean they get locked up in perpetuity. And that's just stupidity.

Document control exists to minimize document loss as much as possible, and part of that process is that when documents are discovered outside of proper custody they are to be returned expeditiously to the archives and an investigation is performed to determine as much as possible how the documents were misplaced and if a chain of custody can be established.

In the case of Biden, they discovered some and followed protocol: they returned the documents immediately and began looking for any additional documents that may not have been returned. There has been nothing revealed to date that suggests the removal of the documents was intentional, and the office they were found hasn't been used by the president since before he started his campaign.

In the case of Trump, he knowingly took these documents. If he had returned them immediately when the archives requested them, it would have been a non-story. Yeah it would have been reported on probably, but if he took them because he thinks he owns everything but corrected that error quickly and returned documents in good faith nobody would give a crap. 

But that's not what he did. He fought the archives for months (or maybe over a year, I forget the timeline but it was a while) and even after his lawyers signed off on all documents being returned it was uncovered he was still holding on to some. So the raid was the result of Trump's refusal.

And even then he's not being considered for prosecution for possessing these documents, but for obstructing the investigation into returning them. 

There is zero equivalence between these two situations in scale (number of classified documents), intent, or in disposition. 

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

It's unfortunately fairly common for classified documents to be misplaced. Document control exists as a thing because of it. 

It's not a new problem: https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2012/05/wnrc_missing/

In the minds of right wingers, this narrative has been constructed that any and all classified documents that end up in possession of "average citizens" would mean they get locked up in perpetuity. And that's just stupidity.

Document control exists to minimize document loss as much as possible, and part of that process is that when documents are discovered outside of proper custody they are to be returned expeditiously to the archives and an investigation is performed to determine as much as possible how the documents were misplaced and if a chain of custody can be established.

In the case of Biden, they discovered some and followed protocol: they returned the documents immediately and began looking for any additional documents that may not have been returned. There has been nothing revealed to date that suggests the removal of the documents was intentional, and the office they were found hasn't been used by the president since before he started his campaign.

In the case of Trump, he knowingly took these documents. If he had returned them immediately when the archives requested them, it would have been a non-story. Yeah it would have been reported on probably, but if he took them because he thinks he owns everything but corrected that error quickly and returned documents in good faith nobody would give a crap. 

But that's not what he did. He fought the archives for months (or maybe over a year, I forget the timeline but it was a while) and even after his lawyers signed off on all documents being returned it was uncovered he was still holding on to some. So the raid was the result of Trump's refusal.

And even then he's not being considered for prosecution for possessing these documents, but for obstructing the investigation into returning them. 

There is zero equivalence between these two situations in scale (number of classified documents), intent, or in disposition. 

Whatever you need to cope.  And the gross difference between Trump and Biden does not excuse Biden for breaking laws regarding control of classified information. 

 

Biden gets up to 5 years and Trump gets more for his obstruction. 

6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

It's unfortunately fairly common for classified documents to be misplaced. Document control exists as a thing because of it. 

It's not a new problem: https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2012/05/wnrc_missing/

In the minds of right wingers, this narrative has been constructed that any and all classified documents that end up in possession of "average citizens" would mean they get locked up in perpetuity. And that's just stupidity.

Document control exists to minimize document loss as much as possible, and part of that process is that when documents are discovered outside of proper custody they are to be returned expeditiously to the archives and an investigation is performed to determine as much as possible how the documents were misplaced and if a chain of custody can be established.

In the case of Biden, they discovered some and followed protocol: they returned the documents immediately and began looking for any additional documents that may not have been returned. There has been nothing revealed to date that suggests the removal of the documents was intentional, and the office they were found hasn't been used by the president since before he started his campaign.

In the case of Trump, he knowingly took these documents. If he had returned them immediately when the archives requested them, it would have been a non-story. Yeah it would have been reported on probably, but if he took them because he thinks he owns everything but corrected that error quickly and returned documents in good faith nobody would give a crap. 

But that's not what he did. He fought the archives for months (or maybe over a year, I forget the timeline but it was a while) and even after his lawyers signed off on all documents being returned it was uncovered he was still holding on to some. So the raid was the result of Trump's refusal.

And even then he's not being considered for prosecution for possessing these documents, but for obstructing the investigation into returning them. 

There is zero equivalence between these two situations in scale (number of classified documents), intent, or in disposition. 

but hunter biden....and CHINA! 

4 minutes ago, BBE said:

Whatever you need to cope.  And the gross difference between Trump and Biden does not excuse Biden for breaking laws regarding control of classified information. 

 

Biden gets up to 5 years and Trump gets more for his obstruction. 

Sorry, can't indict a sitting President.  Sucks, but the last Attorney General was clear on that.  But I suppose on January 21st, 2029 they can reconsider.

1 minute ago, BBE said:

Whatever you need to cope.  And the gross difference between Trump and Biden does not excuse Biden for breaking laws regarding control of classified information. 

 

Biden gets up to 5 years and Trump gets more for his obstruction. 

False.

The statute requires that a person knowingly remove classified information with the intention of keeping that material. 

Trump clearly removed classified material knowingly, and intended to keep it. 

There is nothing to indicate Biden intentionally removed this information, and he returned it immediately as he had no intention of possessing or keeping it.

Keep coping.

4 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

False.

The statute requires that a person knowingly remove classified information with the intention of keeping that material. 

Trump clearly removed classified material knowingly, and intended to keep it. 

There is nothing to indicate Biden intentionally removed this information, and he returned it immediately as he had no intention of possessing or keeping it.

Keep coping.

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer-

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

There are other statutes.  And Biden did not make prompt report. 

 

18 u.s.c. 793.

8 minutes ago, BBE said:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer-

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

There are other statutes.  And Biden did not make prompt report. 

 

18 u.s.c. 793.

I say we fine him 10 double scoops of his favorite ice cream and call it a day. This offer is non-negoitable.

He will use this as a way to exclude himself from running again. 

10 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I say we fine him 10 double scoops of his favorite ice cream and call it a day. This offer is non-negoitable.

That could hurt.

6 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

He will use this as a way to exclude himself from running again. 

That is possible.  The real issue is that it creates problems for the special prosecutor because charging Trump creates precedent for violations of the same law.

32 minutes ago, BBE said:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer-

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

There are other statutes.  And Biden did not make prompt report. 

 

18 u.s.c. 793.

That is applicable to national defense information, not all classified material is "national defense". 

6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

That is applicable to national defense information, not all classified material is "national defense". 

Intelligence reports aren't national defense information?  

The excuses lol

 

This is going as expected.

Special Counsel appointed. Good, make it non-political (as much as possible). 

 

RIGGED WITCH HUNT!

Just now, mr_hunt said:

RIGGED WITCH HUNT!

I do wonder if this, while maybe legit in terms of Biden illegally retaining these classified documents, is being brought forward by people in his own party who want to sabotage him for 2024 because they want someone different to run.  

3 hours ago, The_Omega said:

commenting from a position of ignorance is always a good idea.

 

 

Trumpbots: Biden is totes in the pocket of China. It's like we have a Chinese president!

Also Trumpbots: Biden is doing too much saber rattling with China. He should let China have Taiwan to avoid a war with China because they're too scary. 

13 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I do wonder if this, while maybe legit in terms of Biden illegally retaining these classified documents, is being brought forward by people in his own party who want to sabotage him for 2024 because they want someone different to run.  

Don't think it is sabotage as much as he doesn't want to run so a way he can bow out. 

Democrats have cut bait. My guess is someone in control wasn't happy with Pop Pop’s intention to run again. Otherwise, these papers would have been quietly shredded.