5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I just provided you a ton of facts.  Hurts is a running QB and Steve Young and Russell Wilson are not.  

As I just showed, Hurts has 3 x as many rushing yards per game as Young, and more than 2x as many as Wilson.

 

What facts would you like next.

You provided no facts. Steve Young absolutely ran and so does Wilson. You show me stats of Wilson and Young never running. I’ll wait. 

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

You provided no facts. Steve Young absolutely ran and so does Wilson. You show me stats of Wilson and Young never running. I’ll wait. 

All depends on what is meant by run I guess? Does Wilson gain a lot of yards on the ground with his feet? The stats suggest not. But he absolutely uses his feet to run around and extend plays.

6 minutes ago, Swoop said:

As a starter, Jalen Hurts in his 6 games has rushed for 416 yards. In his entire rookie season (all 16 games) Wilson ran for 489. His first six, he ran 109 yards.

Steve Young ran for 257 in his first 6 starts.

You mind showing where you got this from? 

7 minutes ago, Swoop said:

As a starter, Jalen Hurts in his 6 games has rushed for 416 yards

Those 416 yards in 6 starts are more than Wilson ran for in 16 games in 2016, 2018, 2019.

Steve Young only eclipsed that number in 3 seasons, 425 yards in 14 starts in 86, 537 yards in 16 starts in 92, 454 yards in 15 starts in 98.

 

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

You mind showing where you got this from? 

Profootballreference 

If you're looking at Hurts, simply go to his career splits and scroll down after clicking. It'll post his stats as a starter. 

For Wilson you can simply look at his rushing totals for the year (he started all 16). For the first 6, scroll down and click on his rookie year and check the box scores. They show all of his stats accumulated in each game.

Ditto Steve Young.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Those 416 yards in 6 starts are more than Wilson ran for in 16 games in 2016, 2018, 2019.

Steve Young only eclipsed that number in 3 seasons, 425 yards in 14 starts in 86, 537 yards in 16 starts in 92, 454 yards in 15 starts in 98.

 

Yes.

Regardless, even after the "first six" argument, Hurts ran about twice as much as Young and four times as much as Wilson.

8 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

You mind showing where you got this from? 

Jalen Hurts rushing yards in his starts.

106 vs New Orleans

63 vs Arizona

69 vs Dallas

34 vs Washington

62 vs Atlanta

82 vs 49ers

That adds up to 416 yards, divided by 6 equals 69.3 rushing yards per game.

That is almost 3 times as much as Steve Youngs 25.1 yards per game, and more than double Russel Wilsons 31 yards per game.

 

 

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

All depends on what is meant by run I guess? Does Wilson gain a lot of yards on the ground with his feet? The stats suggest not. But he absolutely uses his feet to run around and extend plays.

The issue is we are dealing with sample sizes here. Donovan McNabb ran a lot more earlier in his career than he did as his career went on, because he evolved as a player (and they got him better weapons) but that doesn’t mean he’s not capable of using his legs to help him win games. There’s no such thing as a quarterback who only runs or can’t throw. For the record there are planets of stand up quarterbacks who really are a liability with the legs that didn’t have elite arm strength, but were successful in the NFL. Conversely there have been guys with big arms who failed too. 

10 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Profootballreference 

If you're looking at Hurts, simply go to his career splits and scroll down after clicking. It'll post his stats as a starter. 

For Wilson you can simply look at his rushing totals for the year (he started all 16). For the first 6, scroll down and click on his rookie year and check the box scores. They show all of his stats accumulated in each game.

Ditto Steve Young.

Yes.

Regardless, even after the "first six" argument, Hurts ran about twice as much as Young and four times as much as Wilson.

So are you telling me that Russell Wilson and Steve Young only compare to pocket passers and that their numbers rushing should be comparable to those only? 

@EazyEaglez, now that we have established that Hurst runs for 64.3 yards per game in his starts, he would rank #2 all time in yards rushing per game by a QB.  Almost 30 yards more per game than the 10th ranked QB.  HE IS A RUNNING QB.

Edited due to my error that @Swoop pointed out @EazyEaglez, Hurts is actually #1 in rushing yards per game at 69.3, not the 64.3 I posted.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Those 416 yards in 6 starts are more than Wilson ran for in 16 games in 2016, 2018, 2019.

Steve Young only eclipsed that number in 3 seasons, 425 yards in 14 starts in 86, 537 yards in 16 starts in 92, 454 yards in 15 starts in 98.

 

You should add that Wilson and Young also throw/threw to all 3 sides of the field and also threw to all 3 sides in short, intermediate, and deep throws.  Hurts has yet to display this ability.  I'm waiting to see him throw over the middle of the field into tight windows where there's only 1-2 seconds where the receiver is open to catch the pass.  We supposedly have 2 good TEs, one of whom runs very good routes and the other who can get YAC, plus WRs who can run drag/crossing routes who can either get separation by running precise routes or are quick/fast.  Why are we not utilizing the middle of the field?  I'll wait, but until I see Hurts using the ENTIRE field then I have to discern that he's limited in his ability to either pass the ball or process enough of the field to make quick decisions where to go with the ball, which is the #1 priority for the QB position.  He hasn't sold me yet, but I'm not going to dismiss him yet, either.  I can wait for more games and a larger sample size, but if the trend continues then we all know (well, anyone capable of being objective) that there's a big problem.

BTW, Wilson and Young are/were both top 5 passers during their playing time, they just happen to both be very mobile with the ability to either scramble or pickup yards when the pass play broke down after going through their reads and seeing nothing available to them.  Young was much better at breaking off the occasional long run and breaking/eluding tackles.  But he was a passer first.  Wilson is also a passer first who can use his legs to either extend the play or pickup yards.  Neither is/was a one read then tuck and run QB.  IMO, comparing their rushing stats is a fool's errand.

 

Just now, Green_Guinness said:

You should add that Wilson and Young also throw/threw to all 3 sides of the field and also threw to all 3 sides in short, intermediate, and deep throws

3 sides of the field? Last time I checked there were only 2 sides... Left and right...

😁

These Hurts humpers will realize sooner or later that Hurts arm is weak and he can't read the middle of the field. This guy has yet to throw into the middle of the field in tight windows. He's had guys open for gains but instead tucks it and runs

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

3 sides of the field? Last time I checked there were only 2 sides... Left and right...

😁

Got me on a technicality.  Well played, good sir.  I should have said 3 PARTS.  Left, Middle, and Right.  Well done.

 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

@EazyEaglez, now that we have established that Hurst runs for 64.3 yards per game in his starts, he would rank #2 all time in yards rushing per game by a QB.  Almost 30 yards more per game than the 10th ranked QB.  HE IS A RUNNING QB.

 

😂🤣😂 According to this John Wolford is number 2 with one game under his belt. We really establishing what Hurts is after five starts??? What a joke. How about you attempt to "establish something off your own bs rather than trying desperately to piggy back of someone else. 

2 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

You should add that Wilson and Young also throw/threw to all 3 sides of the field and also threw to all 3 sides in short, intermediate, and deep throws.  Hurts has yet to display this ability.  I'm waiting to see him throw over the middle of the field into tight windows where there's only 1-2 seconds where the receiver is open to catch the pass.

Check out these Gardner Minshew videos.  Makes all the throws that Hurts wont even attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmKbf29wc4&t=351s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGGBi5POIg

4:20 mark of the above video, throws the same ball that Hurts had  to stop, set up for, then underthrow.  Minshew does it on the move and throws a dime.

 

6 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

Got me on a technicality.  Well played, good sir.  I should have said 3 PARTS.  Left, Middle, and Right.  Well done.

 

Sorry I don't mean to be that petty idiot but... Well I'm that petty idiot.

8 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

😂🤣😂 According to this John Wolford is number 2 with one game under his belt. We really establishing what Hurts is after five starts??? What a joke. How about you attempt to "establish something off your own bs rather than trying desperately to piggy back of someone else. 

Was so glad you noticed that, and it makes it worse for you.  So we remove Walford as 1 game does not tell you anything.  So Jackson and Hurts are the only QB's averaging over 43 yards rushing per game, at 64.6 and 64.3 yards per game.

And I am not piggy backing anyone.  You came up with the nonsense that Hurts runs for 29.3 yards per game, when it is actually double that.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Check out these Gardner Minshew videos.  Makes all the throws that Hurts wont even attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmKbf29wc4&t=351s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGGBi5POIg

4:20 mark of the above video, throws the same ball that Hurts had  to stop, set up for, then underthrow.  Minshew does it on the move and throws a dime.

 

He will be a great backup for Hurts this year and next year.

And Flacco can move on next year.

11 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

So are you telling me that Russell Wilson and Steve Young only compare to pocket passers and that their numbers rushing should be comparable to those only? 

I'm saying that not all mobility is the same. Those two are an example of that. They are QBs that worry about running as a last result. If a team were to focus on shutting their running down, they would destroy you with their passing.

Can the same be said about Hurts? If his running was completely taken away would you really trust him to sit in the pocket and beat a team with his arm? I wouldn't. 

That's why we've been saying there is a difference between a QB that runs and a QB that can run. One is reliant on it, the other is not.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Was so glad you noticed that, and it makes it worse for you.  So we remove Walford as 1 game does not tell you anything.  So Jackson and Hurts are the only QB's averaging over 43 yards rushing per game, at 64.6 and 64.3 yards per game.

And I am not piggy backing anyone.  You came up with the nonsense that Hurts runs for 29.3 yards per game, when it is actually double that.

Actually, he'd be number 1. His average is 69.3

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Check out these Gardner Minshew videos.  Makes all the throws that Hurts wont even attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmKbf29wc4&t=351s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGGBi5POIg

4:20 mark of the above video, throws the same ball that Hurts had  to stop, set up for, then underthrow.  Minshew does it on the move and throws a dime.

 

I watched the videos you posted in The Blog, and not just the parts you mentioned, but most of each one and I saw some solid NFL QB throws to all parts of the field.  Put a gun to my head right now and I'd say Minshew is a better QB than Hurts.  He played for an ishy Jags team which I'd guess their OL was probably bottom third of the league and their skill players were probably bottom half of the league and he put up solid respectable numbers passing the ball.  Solid Comp% and good TD vs INT ratio.  Dude can play.

I'd prefer a strategic field general with ample firepower to a coffee bean 10 times out of 10.  Again, not writing Hurts off yet, but he needs to show much more than he has to this point.  I'll give him more time, but if they continue to neglect the middle of the field with the WRs/TEs we have then something is very wrong.

 

@EazyEaglez, time to give it up.  Here are the facts.  Career rushing yards per games as a starter.

Jalen Hurts 69.3

Russel Wilson 31

Steve Young 28.1

Jalen Hurts is a running QB, the other two are not.

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Sorry I don't mean to be that petty idiot but... Well I'm that petty idiot.

It's all good, mate.  Even from a (former?) Man United supporter.    Anyone who likes craft beers and isn't a Cowgirl fan is OK by me.

 

5 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Actually, he'd be number 1. His average is 69.3

Good catch.

If you want to see Hurts in a whole other category of bad qbs, go ahead and look up ratio of running yards to passing yards and see what kind of company he is in…