Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[highboy]

34 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I never said he sucks, he needs to improve as a passer.  52% is not good enough.  Dropping to 47% in the second half is not good enough.  Not being able to throw the deep ball without a perfect base is not good enough.  Not using the entire middle of the field is not good enough.

Currently, he is a runner who needs to become a significantly better passer.

The next QB who wins a Super Bowl with running being his best skill will be the first.

I won't even disagree with this. I would say he's shown he's a better passer than you're giving him credit for, his flaws are very fixable. But it is what it is. He definitely needs to be better. I think it's processing faster myself but it's never one thing. 
 

Regardless I think he's shown enough to warrant the full season before an evaluation is made. A lot of people on here feel differently

[highboy]

2 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Sure he is getting the yards throwing but, he isn't getting then efficiently... Right now after 6 games he is throwing at a 56% completion percentage... Last season it was 52%. This year he had the big game against Atlanta then came back down to  another 52% completion percentage against the niners. When half your passes are going incomplete I don't give a sheet how many yards you have when it takes you 25 completions on 50 throws to get you to 300 yards it's a problem. 

He won't have any consistency if he completes passes at such a low percentage. 

This is inarguably true. I'm a fan of Hurts, I think his flaws are fixable, but only time will tell. But this is definitively the situation. 

[Bwestbrook36]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

I didn't cherry pick anything.  He has the highest career average rushing yards of all QB's.  He has the second most rushing  yards through 6 starts of all QB's.

 

While not throwing passes to 32% of the field.

I actually like Hurts and was head over heals for him after Atlanta. Then his accuracy and trouble getting the ball where it needs to go showed up like last year. He won't stay on the field long with that passing percentage against tougher defenses. 

[highboy]

Just throwing this out there: More than one thing can be true at the same time

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, highboy said:

I won't even disagree with this. I would say he's shown he's a better passer than you're giving him credit for, his flaws are very fixable. But it is what it is. He definitely needs to be better. I think it's processing faster myself but it's never one thing. 

It is not a processing issue IMO, it is an arm strength issue.  The ball he under threw to Smith, he should have thrown it on the move.  Instead he had to try and get set, and still underthrew the ball.  I am not expecting him to be Pat Mahomes, but Gardner Minshew can make that throw.

4:20 mark of this video, 51 yards on the move.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGGBi5POIg&t=260s

 

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, downundermike said:

It is not a processing issue IMO, it is an arm strength issue.  The ball he under threw to Smith, he should have thrown it on the move.  Instead he had to try and get set, and still underthrew the ball.  I am not expecting him to be Pat Mahomes, but Gardner Minshew can make that throw.

4:20 mark of this video, 51 yards on the move.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGGBi5POIg&t=274s

 

He shouldn't have even been moving he had a clean pocket and threw it sooner. He can make up for a weaker arm if he makes decisions quicker. He rolled.out and was clean but, then saw Smith and decided to run over that way and just was awkward as hell trying to get it there. he was late because he was to busy running in a clean pocket. 

Brian Westbrook broke it down and that play he was most frustrated with because he said Hurts wasted a lot of time moving around in a clean pocket. 

[MillerTime]

29 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Sure he is getting the yards throwing but, he isn't getting then efficiently... Right now after 6 games he is throwing at a 56% completion percentage... Last season it was 52%. This year he had the big game against Atlanta then came back down to  another 52% completion percentage against the niners. When half your passes are going incomplete I don't give a sheet how many yards you have when it takes you 25 completions on 50 throws to get you to 300 yards it's a problem. 

He won't have any consistency if he completes passes at such a low percentage. 

Well it was 12-23 for 190 yards against the 49ers. Reagor runs his route correctly and it’s 13-23 and putting him right around his 250 mark. He isn’t taking 50 throws to get to 300.    

I agree with you though. He needs to be more efficient. The numbers show though that IF he develops and becomes more efficient then he has the talent to be a top QB in the league. We are 6 games in, it could go either way. 

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, MillerTime said:

Well it was 12-23 for 190 yards against the 49ers. Reagor runs his route correctly and it’s 13-24 and putting him right around his 250 mark. He isn’t taking 50 throws to get to 300.    

I agree with you though. He needs to be more efficient. The numbers show though that IF he develops and becomes more efficient then he has the talent to be a top QB in the league. We are 6 games in, it could go either way. 

I know he isn't taking 50 throws I'm just giving an example of him only completing closer to just half his passes. Those are ugly completion percentages.

1 pass that Reagor screwed up shouldn't change the stats that dramatically and you could just as easily say if it wasn't for that 1 pass to Watkins his numbers are abysmal. I'm not taking out passes or putting in passes to fit an agenda. His numbers are as is. 

[MillerTime]

8 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I know he isn't taking 50 throws I'm just giving an example of him only completing closer to just half his passes. Those are ugly completion percentages.

1 pass that Reagor screwed up shouldn't change the stats that dramatically and you could just as easily say if it wasn't for that 1 pass to Watkins his numbers are abysmal. I'm not taking out passes or putting in passes to fit an agenda. His numbers are as is. 

That’s fair. I honestly wasn’t trying to fit an agenda. While I’m excited about watching him develop i recognize the efficiency has to be better and he could just end up being bad. I think it’s 50-50 at this point. But I will say this I don’t think there will be a middle ground with him. I think he is either top 10 or back up when it’s all said and done.

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, MillerTime said:

That’s fair. I honestly wasn’t trying to fit an agenda. While I’m excited about watching him develop i recognize the efficiency has to be better and he could just end up being bad. I think it’s 50-50 at this point. But I will say this I don’t think there will be a middle ground with him. I think he is either top 10 or back up when it’s all said and done.

I can agree with that. It is for the best of everyone that he becomes a good to great player. We have lots of early picks that I would like to see go towards more playmakers especially on defense. I don't want to have to use them all on another damn QB it's getting old lol. 

[highboy]

1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I can agree with that. It is for the best of everyone that he becomes a good to great player. We have lots of early picks that I would like to see go towards more playmakers especially on defense. I don't want to have to use them all on another damn QB it's getting old lol. 

100% this. 

[Green_Guinness]

1 hour ago, MF POON said:

He made that argument too, and it still fails because Wilson, and Jackson have always played in the same passing league. it's not like the league just became this way last season, it's been this way for quite some time now. There's other holes in his argument, but I don't care to be a broken record.

Honestly, the rest of what you're going on about is something we can assess once he plays a full season. We can then go over strengths and weaknesses to point out where he needs to improve.  The guy has played a total of 6 games, and you're already saying "Minshew might be the better option if he doesn't improve by late season,"  and I'm not sure you're even aware of how ridiculous that sounds...  As if we don't have plenty of tape on Gardner Minshew being a failure in Jacksonville. This is the same guy that isn't good enough to be Jax's backup, yet he's somehow worthy of being our starter? 

Also, If we had only given Wentz 14 or so games to prove his worth, he'd have never done what he did in 2017 and he wouldn't have so many homers on this board.

How about not putting words in my mouth?  You said 'option' and 'starter' where I said 'placeholder'.  Difference.  If Hurts doesn't improve and continues to not read enough of the field and tuck and run that's not a viable QB situation.  Time to move on, which means the Eagles will be drafting another QB (unless by some unforeseen turn of events they trade for Watson, though I doubt that).  So in that scenario they'd be better off trading Hurts to some team desperate for a backup and letting Minshew take the helm while they groom the new QB.  That's what I was referring to.  Not that Minshew is going to come in and pull a Foles.

Yes, we have tape of Minshew being able to read a D quicker and deliver the ball where it needs to go better than Hurts has demonstrated to this point.  So he's the more known variable right now.  If Hurts can't reach that level, if he hasn't shown enough improvement to give him even an extension of time to get better (another season), then how can you say Hurts is better?  BTW, Minshew put up good stats (and not all his stats were rung up in 'garbage time' as @downundermike has shown either here or in The Blog, as the majority of the games were 1 score going into the 4th QTR) on a ishy Jags team where it would take a generational talent QB to be successful (thus why they went for Lawrence, though is he really that type of QB?).  As I have said before, their OL probably ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL and their skill players probably in the bottom 1/2.  A bit harsh to call him a failure for being in a bad situation.  And I think it likely that the Jags FO didn't want him there as to give Sunshine a clear path to being 'the guy' in JAX so they got rid of the guy who put a little excitement and charisma into a bad team.  At worst Minshew is probably one of the better backups in the NFL, which is probably why the Eagles traded for him, because Lowie loves to hedge their bets when it comes to their QBs.

The comparison of Wentz to Hurts is a poor one.  Why?  They traded up TWICE to #2 overall (also giving away future 1st Round picks) to get Wentz to be the future franchise QB where they drafted Hurts to be a BACKUP and NOT a franchise starter, but here we are because they totally handled that whole situation like morons.  So of course you're going to give the #2 overall pick more time to develop because you spent more resources to get him.  And they most likely could have taken Hurts in Round 3 instead of Round 2 because who besides Lowie uses a 2nd Round pick on a backup QB?  Outsmarting themselves yet again.

 

[Swoop]

So highboy is a burner/dupe? Find it strange he just joined and immediately came in here to argue. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

So highboy is a burner/dupe? Find it strange he just joined and immediately came in here to argue. 

Very suspect.  

[Random Reglar]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:45 PM, downundermike said:

Jalen Hurts has 416 yards in 6 starts.  If 500 is your cutoff, and it is very uncommon, and at this pace he will run for 1,100 yards, it really does drive my point home that he is a running QB.

At his current pace this year, Russell Wilson will only hit your benchmark in half of his seasons.  

 

 

Yeah,  1 season w/ 500 rushing yards = running QB.

The NFL has had many many many QBs.  There just aren't that many who have hit 500 yards rushing in a season even 1 time.

The category of running QB just isn't as narrow  or thin or sparse as you would like to think.

Russell Wilsons top rushing yards year was 2014,  with 849.

Go make a list of 20 different NFL QBs who had more rushing yards in a season in the NFL than Russell Wilson did
in 2014.

A running QB runs, puts up rushing yards.   I'd say that Russell Wilson is a running QB who is not quite as fast as he was and is no longer quite as capable of putting up the big rushing yards than he once did.

A running QB is just a QB who can do more than a QB who can't run.  

 

[Alphagrand]

23 hours ago, highboy said:

Just throwing this out there: More than one thing can be true at the same time

[KINGnabb]

Well Jalen, you're headed back home to Texas.   Start #3 was in Dallas and now Start #7 is back in Dallas.   Jalen put his best yardage performance against Dallas last year:

 

21/39  342 Yards 1 TD 2 INT

9 Rushes for 69 Yards

 

411 Total yards.

 

Obviously hope he doesn't have to pass this much again but I trust in his ability after this game and Arizona that if we have to do a shoot out, he can handle it.    But I'm looking forward to see how he handle adversity of the loss last week.   Let's ruin their home opener with this W.   Let's go Jalen.   Oh Yeah, that pass last year was just as Epic as the 91 yarder.  It was an 81 Yarder but it was a TD.   So Jalen now has  81 and 91 yard pass in 6 starts.    

 

 

[Swoop]

@downundermike 3 rushing yards for Wilson right now. What a runner, eh?

[eagle45]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:52 PM, Bwestbrook36 said:

He shouldn't have even been moving he had a clean pocket and threw it sooner. He can make up for a weaker arm if he makes decisions quicker. He rolled.out and was clean but, then saw Smith and decided to run over that way and just was awkward as hell trying to get it there. he was late because he was to busy running in a clean pocket. 

Brian Westbrook broke it down and that play he was most frustrated with because he said Hurts wasted a lot of time moving around in a clean pocket. 

Which leads to my question...why are we even doing this?  He can make up for a weaker arm if he makes decisions quicker.  But his other weakness is making those decisions quicker and commanding a game from the pocket.

So basically every meaningful aspect of passing is either a fixed talent weakness or something he needs to work on.  Guys like that don't get starting opportunities.  

[eagle45]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:28 PM, Random Reglar said:

A running QB is just a QB who can do more than a QB who can't run.  

 

And an elite passing QB is a QB who can do more than a QB who runs well and is a mediocre passer.

[Bwestbrook36]

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Which leads to my question...why are we even doing this?  He can make up for a weaker arm if he makes decisions quicker.  But his other weakness is making those decisions quicker and commanding a game from the pocket.

So basically every meaningful aspect of passing is either a fixed talent weakness or something he needs to work on.  Guys like that don't get starting opportunities.  

Agreed, all.his weaknesses and things he needs to work on all showed up in one play where he had plenty of time and a guy open where one of his weaknesses or things he needs to work shouldn't show up but they all still did. It's mind boggling. 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

@downundermike 3 rushing yards for Wilson right now. What a runner, eh?

3 for 7.  Revolutionizing the NFL as a running QB

[Random Reglar]

2 hours ago, eagle45 said:

And an elite passing QB is a QB who can do more than a QB who runs well and is a mediocre passer.

there are very few "elite passing QBs"   there aren't 32 at a time.

Tom Brady falls under the category of "elite passing QB".  He wins a lot of Super Bowls.   I'm not arguing not to get Tom Brady.  

But that guy that someone thinks is like Tom Brady,  isn't Tom Brady.  Teams hit reset on their team,  draft an expensive QB who they are so sure is the next Tom Brady,  and that expensive QB almost always is a failure. 

Most "mediocre" passers today are actually "good" passers.   When the average passer rating goes up and up and up year after year,  todays "mediocre" QB has passing stats like yesterday;s :"good" QB.   Hurts is a top 5 runner.   He has a passer rating of 108 this year.  There seem to be a lot of QBs with high passer ratings this year.  108 is quite good in most every year.

[Random Reglar]

Did you just see what the Fullback for the 9ers just did?

It was what I described - what Logan Thomas did.

They put Trey Lance at QB, shotgun,  put Kyle J in motion,  he went under center, took the snap,  plowed ahead for the first down.

Additionally,  the 9ers just had 4 backs there in the backfield.

[Infam]

7 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Agreed, all.his weaknesses and things he needs to work on all showed up in one play where he had plenty of time and a guy open where one of his weaknesses or things he needs to work shouldn't show up but they all still did. It's mind boggling. 

Only thing mind boggling is that **** narrative that acts like the "elite passing qbs” hit every throw perfectly.

I suggest watching the actual games of Rodgers, Brady and Mahomes and you will see plenty of plays that in isolation would support the argument that they can’t throw it.

Nobody, not even sure-fire HoF’ers will play perfect. They too are only human. Only difference is they get cut a lot more slack because of their past success.