39 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

If anyone watching that game last night still think that one day, Hurts could get anywhere close to that level..... Must be have screw loose. 

 Chiefs vs Bills made it pretty clear, we are a long way away including the QB position

Crystal clear.  He's just a place holder, while the team looks for the next franchise QB.  There is zero chance that he is ever Josh Allen's level.

And I agree...he's not the only issue that needs fixed to just compete with the teams that played over the weekend.

1 minute ago, greend said:

And if seeing the areas of concern lead you to be negative about his existence on the roster?

I've got no problem with him being on the roster.   My issue starts and ends with him being the QB that they are thinking about building around.  A passing QB that can run can win in the NFL.   A running QB that can't pass can't win in the NFL.  The weak schedule this year has led many to believe that they can win with Hurts.  And they can... as long as they play the bottom 10 teams of the NFL.

 

The Eagles' wins came against (by record) #31, #30, #29, #27, #25 (x2), #23, #22, and #18 (and they only beat #18, because they were starting a QB that led them to a 0-4 record in games he started).   Their losses came to (by record): #2, #3, #4, #10, #12, #15, and #30.   Bit of a disparity.

 

40 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Crystal clear.  He's just a place holder, while the team looks for the next franchise QB.  There is zero chance that he is ever Josh Allen's level.

And I agree...he's not the only issue that needs fixed to just compete with the teams that played over the weekend.

Also bills have one of the best defenses in the league and they still got torched. Having a better defense will help win games obviously but, even really good ones get torched, so you are going to need a QB that can put up the big scores pretty regularly. 

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

If anyone watching that game last night still think that one day, Hurts could get anywhere close to that level..... Must be have screw loose. 

 Chiefs vs Bills made it pretty clear, we are a long way away including the QB position

And their skill players.

Gabriel Davis had an NFL record 4 TDs in a playoff game and over 100 yards. He was a 4th round pick in 2020, when Reagor was a 1st round pick. His contribution to our playoffs was a muffed punt.

The talent is coming out of college and Howie sucks at drafting. 

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I say again, go back and watch Josh Allen's first 2 seasons and see if you think Josh Allen could reach Josh Allen's current level. I know this board like to think there are always flashes, but his first 20 games there wasn't many flashes at all. Josh Allen is a throw back to when teams drafted guys and let them take their lumps early career in the hope they develop and it's paid off big time.

Maybe Hurt's doesn't get near that level, maybe he does, the fact is after one season as starter you wouldn't have known with either, and no amount of watching games with a beer on your couch makes you a QB prognosticator worth a toot on a tin whistle.

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I've got no problem with him being on the roster.   My issue starts and ends with him being the QB that they are thinking about building around.  A passing QB that can run can win in the NFL.   A running QB that can't pass can't win in the NFL.  The weak schedule this year has led many to believe that they can win with Hurts.  And they can... as long as they play the bottom 10 teams of the NFL.

 

The Eagles' wins came against (by record) #31, #30, #29, #27, #25 (x2), #23, #22, and #18 (and they only beat #18, because they were starting a QB that led them to a 0-4 record in games he started).   Their losses came to (by record): #2, #3, #4, #10, #12, #15, and #30.   Bit of a disparity.

 

Building around Hurts and Building the team is essentially the same thing. Eagles have holes all over the roster and pretty much no young talent on D. We can't afford a trade for one of the big QBs with our cap space and need for young talent.

Eagles could draft someone, but they'd be better picking up an extra first or second for next year, which is meant to be a much stronger class, while giving them another year to look at Hurts.

It's not like the Eagles have extended Hurts (they can't yet anyway). It would be really easy to move on from Hurts, but the Eagles don't need to be in a hurry to do so. 

When I came to this board this morning after watching that exhilarating offensively explosive Chiefs/Bills game last night, I felt immediately depressed. 

Pat Mahomes!  Wholly crap!

Josh Allen!  Wholly toledo!

Jalen Hurts...wholly...???  

If you watched these playoffs and didn't feel extremely inadequate at quarterback, then I fear you're stuck in a completely outdated way of thinking about football.  We aren't good enough, he is definitely not good enough. 

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Building around Hurts and Building the team is essentially the same thing. Eagles have holes all over the roster and pretty much no young talent on D. We can't afford a trade for one of the big QBs with our cap space and need for young talent.

Eagles could draft someone, but they'd be better picking up an extra first or second for next year, which is meant to be a much stronger class, while giving them another year to look at Hurts.

It's not like the Eagles have extended Hurts (they can't yet anyway). It would be really easy to move on from Hurts, but the Eagles don't need to be in a hurry to do so. 

Not exactly.  Building around Hurts means you are focusing on a very simple offense with limited reads and limited range.  It means short passes, single reads and more importantly, no precision routes, no timing routes.   It means that they are stuck with the offense that works for Hurts... and then need to later install an offense that works in the NFL.  

 

BTW... I'm not in favor of trading for one of the big QBs... just in keeping it real.  Personally, I'd rather roll with Minshew than Hurts, because he offers them to install a more conventional NFL offense.  (Minshew isn't the answer either). But the piece that would be missing at that point would be the QB.

32 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not exactly.  Building around Hurts means you are focusing on a very simple offense with limited reads and limited range.  It means short passes, single reads and more importantly, no precision routes, no timing routes.   It means that they are stuck with the offense that works for Hurts... and then need to later install an offense that works in the NFL.  

 

BTW... I'm not in favor of trading for one of the big QBs... just in keeping it real.  Personally, I'd rather roll with Minshew than Hurts, because he offers them to install a more conventional NFL offense.  (Minshew isn't the answer either). But the piece that would be missing at that point would be the QB.

I was listening to the ITB pod the other day and this is essentially what Cosell was getting in to. He was saying you don't want to start off needing to constrain yourself. If you have a QB who you need to do that with then you don't have the right one. 

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I was listening to the ITB pod the other day and this is essentially what Cosell was getting in to. He was saying you don't want to start off needing to constrain yourself. If you have a QB who you need to do that with then you don't have the right one. 

I've been thinking about that for awhile. A better version of THIS offense is still wildly inadequate in the long run. It would be Baltimore or Clevelands offense and they are chilling at home just like us. It's funny that more conventional (exception 49ers) stick around until the end. Our offense this year was made to make it through the season. I struggle to believe it has ANY sustainability moving forward

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

I've been thinking about that for awhile. A better version of THIS offense is still wildly inadequate in the long run. It would be Baltimore or Clevelands offense and they are chilling at home just like us. It's funny that more conventional (exception 49ers) stick around until the end. Our offense this year was made to make it through the season. I struggle to believe it has ANY sustainability moving forward

It’s clearly unsustainable. Hurts won’t be here long if the product he put on the field in 2021 is what we can expect going forward. That much is clear.

13 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I've been thinking about that for awhile. A better version of THIS offense is still wildly inadequate in the long run. It would be Baltimore or Clevelands offense and they are chilling at home just like us. It's funny that more conventional (exception 49ers) stick around until the end. Our offense this year was made to make it through the season. I struggle to believe it has ANY sustainability moving forward

 

10 minutes ago, Thrive said:

It’s clearly unsustainable. Hurts won’t be here long if the product he put on the field in 2021 is what we can expect going forward. That much is clear.

 

An elite defense with a game manager is not going to get you to the finish line.  The #1, #2, #5, #6 and #7 scoring defenses have been eliminated the last two weekends.  

Just now, downundermike said:

 

 

An elite defense with a game manager is not going to get you to the finish line.  The #1, #2, #5, #6 and #7 scoring defenses have been eliminated the last two weekends.  

Agreed. Nobody here should want any part of a game manager for the long run. 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

 

An elite defense with a game manager is not going to get you to the finish line.  The #1, #2, #5, #6 and #7 scoring defenses have been eliminated the last two weekends.  

I was discussing it with my friend that defenses now are no longer 1/3 of the battle. It's like 1/6 with special teams being 1/6 and offense 2/3. Sustaining a long drive > defense creating a 3 and out.  

On 1/22/2022 at 9:16 AM, eagle45 said:

I say this respectfully, but your quick analysis is so absurd that it reveals the rest of your perspective on this just isn’t worth discussing.

You didn't say anything.  You don't win arguments with NOTHING.

15 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Heres his rookie heighlights.

out of the 40-50 throws I'd say Hurts could make 1 or 2. 

I mean, Hurts cant even throw to the left hand side of the field. 

Did we think he was going to be what he is today, no. but he had a ton of "flashes"

Yep. 

Now compare that with Hurts who runs....and runs....and runs some more.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not exactly.  Building around Hurts means you are focusing on a very simple offense with limited reads and limited range.  It means short passes, single reads and more importantly, no precision routes, no timing routes.   It means that they are stuck with the offense that works for Hurts... and then need to later install an offense that works in the NFL.  

 

BTW... I'm not in favor of trading for one of the big QBs... just in keeping it real.  Personally, I'd rather roll with Minshew than Hurts, because he offers them to install a more conventional NFL offense.  (Minshew isn't the answer either). But the piece that would be missing at that point would be the QB.

EVERYTHING was installed just this year.  New coaches.  

If at some time the Eagles wanted to change the offense,  all they would need to do get get a QB and put in a system that works for him.   It would take less time that this year, where everything was completely new.

Add defense this offseason,  because then you have a better defense for whatever offense you have in the future. 

Hurts is good, cheap, and should be the starter through the end of 2023.  If they have to pay him $40 Million for 2024, think about it then.

2 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Hurts is good, cheap, and should be the starter through the end of 2023.  If they have to pay him $40 Million for 2024, think about it then.

So you are writing off the 2022 & 2023 season already, nice.

15 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

EVERYTHING was installed just this year.  New coaches.  

If at some time the Eagles wanted to change the offense,  all they would need to do get get a QB and put in a system that works for him.   It would take less time that this year, where everything was completely new.

Add defense this offseason,  because then you have a better defense for whatever offense you have in the future. 

Hurts is good, cheap, and should be the starter through the end of 2023.  If they have to pay him $40 Million for 2024, think about it then.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Building around Hurts and Building the team is essentially the same thing.

 

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not exactly.  Building around Hurts means you are focusing on a very simple offense with limited reads and limited range. 

Agreed, good point.  Building around the QB means you are going to style the playbook after his strengths and get players that fit those strengths.  Does Hurts affect the type of O linemen they draft?  Receivers?

Building the team means building the type of roster you want, that have the skills to run the plays you want to run in your playbook.  Coaches always say they will adjust the playbook to the players they have, but the decision the Eagles face is do they want to keep things as they are and go with a dual threat QB who isn't very accurate, doesn't read defenses well, doesn't go through reads and misses open receivers?  Do they structure an offense around a 1 read QB who will run or scramble if the first guy isn't open?

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

Agreed, good point.  Building around the QB means you are going to style the playbook after his strengths and get players that fit those strengths.  Does Hurts affect the type of O linemen they draft?  Receivers?

Building the team means building the type of roster you want, that have the skills to run the plays you want to run in your playbook.  Coaches always say they will adjust the playbook to the players they have, but the decision the Eagles face is do they want to keep things as they are and go with a dual threat QB who isn't very accurate, doesn't read defenses well, doesn't go through reads and misses open receivers?  Do they structure an offense around a 1 read QB who will run or scramble if the first guy isn't open?

Yep, if they build around Hurts strength, when it doesn't work out, you are forced to rebuild again.

28 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

EVERYTHING was installed just this year.  New coaches.  

If at some time the Eagles wanted to change the offense,  all they would need to do get get a QB and put in a system that works for him.   It would take less time that this year, where everything was completely new.

Add defense this offseason,  because then you have a better defense for whatever offense you have in the future. 

Hurts is good, cheap, and should be the starter through the end of 2023.  If they have to pay him $40 Million for 2024, think about it then.

No he isn't.

A quick summary for all the folks who want to put a good defense around a below average / average QB and try to win.

 

The #1 scoring defense in the NFL, had their top 5 in the league QB go 27 of 37 for 329 yards and 4 TD's, 90.3 QBR and 136 QB rating, had no turnovers, allowed 2 sacks, converted 6 of 14 third downs and 4 of 4 4th downs, had 422 yards of total offense and scored 36 points, AND LOST.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

A quick summary for all the folks who want to put a good defense around a below average / average QB and try to win.

 

The #1 scoring defense in the NFL, had their top 5 in the league QB go 27 of 37 for 329 yards and 4 TD's, 90.3 QBR and 136 QB rating, had no turnovers, allowed 2 sacks, converted 6 of 14 third downs and 4 of 4 4th downs, had 422 yards of total offense and scored 36 points, AND LOST.

Ok.  So what's the solution then?   Sometimes you just lose, even with the best roster.  And sometimes the way you CALL THE GAME, not the personnel, is the bigger problem.   The Bills had everything in place to win and CHOKED.  

 

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Ok.  So what's the solution then?   Sometimes you just lose, even with the best roster.  And sometimes the way you CALL THE GAME, not the personnel, is the bigger problem.   The Bills had everything in place to win and CHOKED.  

 

Solution is to have a QB first and foremost.  You are not going to even compete in a game like that with Hurts.  It may not always go your way, but you do not stand a remote chance without a top 10 QB in that game.