Just now, downundermike said:

Solution is to have a QB first and foremost.  You are not going to even compete in a game like that with Hurts.  It may not always go your way, but you do not stand a remote chance without a top 10 QB in that game.

I agree.   Now, where do you find that QB right now? 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I agree.   Now, where do you find that QB right now? 

You trade for one if available, you try to find one in the draft, bottom line, Jalen Hurts does not have the skillset needed to win in the playoffs.

Just now, downundermike said:

You trade for one if available, you try to find one in the draft, bottom line, Jalen Hurts does not have the skillset needed to win in the playoffs.

Never thought he was.   But I am pro-defense in this draft.    There can be a nuanced position between the extremes.  

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

You didn't say anything.  You don't win arguments with NOTHING.

I’m not trying to win an argument.  I’m just hoping my team can get competitive again.  
 

If you believe that, there is no debate.  We live in different worlds where different laws of physics apply.  
 

In my world, the sky is usually blue, Earth is round, and masses exert gravitational pull, which is downwards on the surface of a large planet.

One of us lives in some sort of matrix.  Maybe it’s me.  
 

So there is no point in trying to win an argument here.

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

Agreed, good point.  Building around the QB means you are going to style the playbook after his strengths and get players that fit those strengths.  Does Hurts affect the type of O linemen they draft?  Receivers?

Building the team means building the type of roster you want, that have the skills to run the plays you want to run in your playbook.  Coaches always say they will adjust the playbook to the players they have, but the decision the Eagles face is do they want to keep things as they are and go with a dual threat QB who isn't very accurate, doesn't read defenses well, doesn't go through reads and misses open receivers?  Do they structure an offense around a 1 read QB who will run or scramble if the first guy isn't open?

I think it's overstating it somewhat. As it is, the line they have are better at run blocking than pass blocking. 

If the team "builds around Hurts" what really changes? Ultimately the draft should be pretty much all about the D this year if they don't give up picks for a QB. Hurts does not affect that. Apart from that, we need a WR2, ideally a veteran and potentially a Kelce replacement. That would be the same with or without Hurts.

The Eagles are not committed to Hurts, nor should they be. If they don't see another viable option at QB this year, then they can build the team and still easily move on from Hurts in 2023 if he can't show enough this year. 

25 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I think it's overstating it somewhat. As it is, the line they have are better at run blocking than pass blocking. 

If the team "builds around Hurts" what really changes? Ultimately the draft should be pretty much all about the D this year if they don't give up picks for a QB. Hurts does not affect that. Apart from that, we need a WR2, ideally a veteran and potentially a Kelce replacement. That would be the same with or without Hurts.

The Eagles are not committed to Hurts, nor should they be. If they don't see another viable option at QB this year, then they can build the team and still easily move on from Hurts in 2023 if he can't show enough this year. 

Was agreeing with Iggles Phan's highlight of the different approaches.  I already said what could change regarding the type of players they get to complement Hurts' play style, plus how the QB limits the playbook not just draft.

 

 

9 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I say again, go back and watch Josh Allen's first 2 seasons and see if you think Josh Allen could reach Josh Allen's current level. I know this board like to think there are always flashes, but his first 20 games there wasn't many flashes at all. Josh Allen is a throw back to when teams drafted guys and let them take their lumps early career in the hope they develop and it's paid off big time.

Maybe Hurt's doesn't get near that level, maybe he does, the fact is after one season as starter you wouldn't have known with either, and no amount of watching games with a beer on your couch makes you a QB prognosticator worth a toot on a tin whistle.

The issue I have with this is that it completely ignores the raw tools Allen had. Yes, there was a lot of doubt about whether Allen could ever put it all together but he always had that tantalising upside if he ever did, right from Day 1. There is a reason he was drafted top-10 despite being such an inaccurate QB when he first got in the league. If you want a comparison to Allen from recent drafts, its Trey Lance not Hurts.

We don't go around comparing Minshew or Lock to Josh Allen, and we shouldn't compare Hurts to him either. Night and day difference. Hurts may well improve but he will look like quite a different QB to Josh Allen.

1 hour ago, kiwieagle said:

The issue I have with this is that it completely ignores the raw tools Allen had. Yes, there was a lot of doubt about whether Allen could ever put it all together but he always had that tantalising upside if he ever did, right from Day 1. There is a reason he was drafted top-10 despite being such an inaccurate QB when he first got in the league. If you want a comparison to Allen from recent drafts, its Trey Lance not Hurts.

We don't go around comparing Minshew or Lock to Josh Allen, and we shouldn't compare Hurts to him either. Night and day difference. Hurts may well improve but he will look like quite a different QB to Josh Allen.

The point is more that it's possible for a player to develop from unpromising beginnings, also I think it's fair to acknowledge that you don't get to be starting QB at 2 elite college programmes if you're as devoid of talent as this board likes to pretend Hurts is.

5 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Ok.  So what's the solution then?   Sometimes you just lose, even with the best roster.  And sometimes the way you CALL THE GAME, not the personnel, is the bigger problem.   The Bills had everything in place to win and CHOKED.  

 

Yeah, the defense lost that game. You just can't allow 45 yards in 13 seconds. It doesn't matter if it's Mahomes.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The point is more that it's possible for a player to develop from unpromising beginnings, also I think it's fair to acknowledge that you don't get to be starting QB at 2 elite college programmes if you're as devoid of talent as this board likes to pretend Hurts is.

The things that gets me is so many on this board are swearing that Hurts is terrible. Can't pass, can't read a defense, no arm. Yet he completed 61% of passes. Not great in this modern era, but not awful. 

And that's from a QB who was always viewed as developmental and not NFL ready. In his first year of starting and first year with a new head coach. Surely it's not out of the realms to suggest he might improve by a couple of % in the following year? After all he was at 52% last year. What about his weapons. Devonta Smith is a rookie, so surely he can improve on an impressive rookie year? Reagor probably won't, but what if they do us all a favour and sign a decent veteran WR. That could add another couple of percent as well right?

So would 65% completion plus 700 yards rushing be a decent QB?

Hurts could get better. We don't know, but there are a lot of benefits to giving him another year.

40 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yet he completed 61% of passes. Not great in this modern era, but not awful. 

If that completion percentage puts you in the bottom 4 of an entire league that is the definition of being awful or really freaking close to it.  Especially when the 4 behind you are 2 actual rookies Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield who has been the best QB the browns have had in a long ass time and they are about done with him too. 

Short and white = Drew Brees

Short and black = Russell Wilson

Can't throw for sheet = Josh Allen. 

 

 

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

The things that gets me is so many on this board are swearing that Hurts is terrible. Can't pass, can't read a defense, no arm. Yet he completed 61% of passes. Not great in this modern era, but not awful. 

And that's from a QB who was always viewed as developmental and not NFL ready. In his first year of starting and first year with a new head coach. Surely it's not out of the realms to suggest he might improve by a couple of % in the following year? After all he was at 52% last year. What about his weapons. Devonta Smith is a rookie, so surely he can improve on an impressive rookie year? Reagor probably won't, but what if they do us all a favour and sign a decent veteran WR. That could add another couple of percent as well right?

So would 65% completion plus 700 yards rushing be a decent QB?

Hurts could get better. We don't know, but there are a lot of benefits to giving him another year.

I agree with you on the extremes. He's not terrible. Everyone that knows him talks about work ethic, leadership, etc.

 He made improvements this year. He had made some passing plays, he's not "just a running QB."

But, we've seen repeatedly not going through reads and missing open receivers. The arm & accuracy just aren't there. He can make improvements but not really enough to be that playoff winning guy to put the team on his back and carry them to deep playoff runs.

We may be wrong. He may take that leap. And barring something dramatic, he'll be the starter next year so he'll have another year to make his case for being long-term. And unless they really like someone in the draft, I think it makes sense for the front office to build other positions and roll with Hurts next year. Can always change after next year.

A difficult yet necessary watch & while I am hopeful Hurts can make substantial improvement this offseason, he simply cannot come out next year playing anything like this.
 

 

The upside is that if they can add a legit FA wideout to team with Smith & Watkins, these guys could have some real fun...but Hurts has to make that leap.

7 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I agree with you on the extremes. He's not terrible. Everyone that knows him talks about work ethic, leadership, etc.

 He made improvements this year. He had made some passing plays, he's not "just a running QB."

But, we've seen repeatedly not going through reads and missing open receivers. The arm & accuracy just aren't there. He can make improvements but not really enough to be that playoff winning guy to put the team on his back and carry them to deep playoff runs.

We may be wrong. He may take that leap. And barring something dramatic, he'll be the starter next year so he'll have another year to make his case for being long-term. And unless they really like someone in the draft, I think it makes sense for the front office to build other positions and roll with Hurts next year. Can always change after next year.

After the playoff game, I think the optimists will find things to be optimistic about and the pessimists will find reasons to do their thing. 

The title of the video is about Quez, but the video shows the biggest area of concern with Hurts currently. I'm not really worried about his accuracy. I just want him to improve his vision and decisiveness. I think progress was made as a QB, but he needs to take another big step in year 3.

19 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

After the playoff game, I think the optimists will find things to be optimistic about and the pessimists will find reasons to do their thing. 

The title of the video is about Quez, but the video shows the biggest area of concern with Hurts currently. I'm not really worried about his accuracy. I just want him to improve his vision and decisiveness. I think progress was made as a QB, but he needs to take another big step in year 3.

Needs to be really BIG step next year though. 

One thing I've always heard & read about him is his work ethic and determination. He will put the work in to get better any way he can. Not everyone has that innate drive. 

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

Needs to be really BIG step next year though. 

One thing I've always heard & read about him is his work ethic and determination. He will put the work in to get better any way he can. Not everyone has that innate drive. 

That's one thing everybody should like about him. We'll have to wait and see if it pays off. Next year will be his 3rd NFL season. I don't expect a finished product, but we absolutely need to see signs of him maturing as a passer.

I hope something works out so we can bring in an experienced, vet WR that can help him with his growth a bit. I know there have been some big names thrown around and some talk of using one of our 1st rd. picks on another WR, but I think we have two really good, young WRs in Smith and Watkins and just need somebody that can stabilize the group. JJAW has had 3 seasons and has been a bust. Reagor is entering his 3rd season and hasn't lived up to expectations. I'm not sure who will end up available, but someone that can produce would be a huge upgrade. 

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

After the playoff game, I think the optimists will find things to be optimistic about and the pessimists will find reasons to do their thing. 

The title of the video is about Quez, but the video shows the biggest area of concern with Hurts currently. I'm not really worried about his accuracy. I just want him to improve his vision and decisiveness. I think progress was made as a QB, but he needs to take another big step in year 3.

There was progress, I think we can all agree on that....question is how much progress was made

I'm certainly on the side of the big step in Year 3 needs to be bigger than the progress that was made from the start of the year to the end of the year

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

I agree with you on the extremes. He's not terrible. Everyone that knows him talks about work ethic, leadership, etc.

 He made improvements this year. He had made some passing plays, he's not "just a running QB."

But, we've seen repeatedly not going through reads and missing open receivers. The arm & accuracy just aren't there. He can make improvements but not really enough to be that playoff winning guy to put the team on his back and carry them to deep playoff runs.

We may be wrong. He may take that leap. And barring something dramatic, he'll be the starter next year so he'll have another year to make his case for being long-term. And unless they really like someone in the draft, I think it makes sense for the front office to build other positions and roll with Hurts next year. Can always change after next year.

I agree with most of what you say and I also think he’s probably not the guy.

I do think his short and intermediate accuracy is actually pretty good in most games. He clearly developed later in the year on staying in the pocket, going through reads and throwing to different areas of the field.

But his reads are still not great as you say. My other concerns lie around his deep ball, ability to anticipate receivers open and throwing in the red zone (which brings his reading/anticipation issues to the fore)

But his running ability and improvisational skills are great. Always gives you a chance on third and long.

Big question on whether he can improve his fundamentals enough, but it makes sense to see what he can do for another year.

6 hours ago, NOTW said:

One thing I've always heard & read about him is his work ethic and determination. He will put the work in to get better any way he can

Blah blah blah. I'm sure the majority of the league has a great work ethic you don't get there and stay there without it, unless you have ridiculous natural athletic ability. Even then you don't last long without a strong work ethic. 

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Blah blah blah. I'm sure the majority of the league has a great work ethic you don't get there and stay there without it, unless you have ridiculous natural athletic ability. Even then you don't last long without a strong work ethic. 

If there's a bar that is set by expectations around the league on work effort, the fact that people are praising another player for his effort says a lot. People praised players like Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, and Tom Brady for this very thing.

6 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

If there's a bar that is set by expectations around the league on work effort, the fact that people are praising another player for his effort says a lot. People praised players like Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, and Tom Brady for this very thing.

Now were comparing Hurts to Rice, Payton and Brady?

 

3 minutes ago, Perforator said:

Now were comparing Hurts to Rice, Payton and Brady?

 

Oh no!!!111!!!

19 hours ago, eagle45 said:

In my world, the sky is usually blue, Earth is round, and masses exert gravitational pull, which is downwards on the surface of a large planet.

O-K

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Blah blah blah. I'm sure the majority of the league has a great work ethic you don't get there and stay there without it, unless you have ridiculous natural athletic ability. Even then you don't last long without a strong work ethic. 

You're just a hater! 

Your grouchiness aside, sure pro athletes all need that work ethic or they wouldn't be there. Not everyone has it. I think the fact that his teammates keep talking about it means it stands out to them.