2 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

In my opinion, Hurts has to take another step forward or I’m looking for another option next off-season. He needs to get 3600+ yards passing, 20+ tds, 15- int, but more important than just the numbers, he’s got to look better doing it. He’s got to play with better anticipation, see receivers wide-open down field and be able to attack ALL areas of the field with success.

If not, I’d trade draft capital to move up in the draft or get a proven vet for 2023.

Absolutely. I give him lots and lots of crap, but if he upped his anticipation game to adequate, he'd get far less crap 

11 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

You can do this if you’re trying to decide what level of qb play you deem acceptable for the team, but not to evaluate the qb.

If the Eagles decide to go old school and invest heavily on defense moving forward and in say a year or two they get to the point that we have a true lock-down, suffocating defense… but Hurts doesn’t show any improvement. If the defense is holding other teams to less than 7 points a game… does that mean Hurts is a top 5 qb? No, but maybe you find him acceptable since he’s controlling the clock and putting points on the board.

Or not, which was the case in a lot of games this past year.

9 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Above average backup arm talent, good back up decision making, rookie level hesitation.  I think 4k and nearing 30tds is an absolutely insane jump and shouldn't be counted on...but I would love to eat that plate of crow at the end of the season.  17th best is about where I have him right now when you add the legs....that's the problem though. Those ahead of him won't be easy to overcome and then next year's draft will probably put 2-3 more ahead of him. Luckily there is one definitely retiring so maybe he hold top twenty for one more year

Nothing should be counted on, but if Hurts stays healthy I'd be surprised if he didn't get close to 4000 yards. He did 3,150 yards in 15 games. So 17 games he would be just short of 3600. Then you add in AJ Brown. Should be comfortable even if Hurts doesn't progress much. Remember the jump McNabb took when he had TO?

Just now, ManchesterEagle said:

Nothing should be counted on, but if Hurts stays healthy I'd be surprised if he didn't get close to 4000 yards. He did 3,150 yards in 15 games. So 17 games he would be just short of 3600. Then you add in AJ Brown. Should be comfortable even if Hurts doesn't progress much. Remember the jump McNabb took when he had TO?

People act like adding AJ Brown is just going to add production.  Have you ever stopped to think that it may cut into Smith and Goedert's production, while not adding at all to Hurts passing production ??

10 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Nothing should be counted on, but if Hurts stays healthy I'd be surprised if he didn't get close to 4000 yards. He did 3,150 yards in 15 games. So 17 games he would be just short of 3600. Then you add in AJ Brown. Should be comfortable even if Hurts doesn't progress much. Remember the jump McNabb took when he had TO?

I also remember McNabb changing his style completely to what the rest of the winning QBs were doing. Also....McNabb was a deep playoff QB already and a ridiculous win/loss record. Mcnabbs second season was great for that era. Mcnabbs only issue ever was consistent accuracy. Man gets talked about like he was only good... McNabb was pretty Fing amazing overall

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... there is a good chance that Hurts can be pretty much the same as he was this past year and can't win fewer than 7 games.  

I agree. I think he takes a step forwards this year (I think he's got a better supporting cast) but do I think he can be a top 10-12 QB? I have my doubts. 

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

People act like adding AJ Brown is just going to add production.  Have you ever stopped to think that it may cut into Smith and Goedert's production, while not adding at all to Hurts passing production ??

I'm completely open to what happens with Hurts. I have no idea how it will go. But I fully expect the Eagles to pass more given that they now have Smith, Goedert and Brown. And you are getting a borderline top 10 receiver replacing a bottom 5 receiver. Eagles should pass more and Brown could open things up for Smith/Goedert. 

If Hurts doesn't improve much, he should still get close to 4,000 just because of the big upgrade at receiver.

29 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Hurts was generally ranked around 17 in starting QBs by most analysts last year. So to say that you hope he can reach the level of above average backup is just wrong. He is already an average to below average starting QB. 

Agreed. When I look around the league I see a lot of pretty bad starting QBs. 2 of them are in our division. 

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Agreed. When I look around the league I see a lot of pretty bad starting QBs. 2 of them are in our division. 

Guessing Wentz and Jones are the two, but I'm pretty sure as a QB, hurts is 3rd in this division until proven otherwise. Hurts is about middle of the pack NFC and low tier AFC atm 

29 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Nothing should be counted on, but if Hurts stays healthy I'd be surprised if he didn't get close to 4000 yards. He did 3,150 yards in 15 games. So 17 games he would be just short of 3600. Then you add in AJ Brown. Should be comfortable even if Hurts doesn't progress much. Remember the jump McNabb took when he had TO?

Making better pre-snap reads could get him 4-5 more completions a game. That could be 40-50 more yards a game… that’s 700+ yards over the course of a season. It’s not impossible, but he’s got to PROVE he can do it.

27 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Agreed. When I look around the league I see a lot of pretty bad starting QBs. 2 of them are in our division. 

Having one of the QBs that isn't good enough isn't a real selling point for me.

45 minutes ago, downundermike said:

People act like adding AJ Brown is just going to add production.  Have you ever stopped to think that it may cut into Smith and Goedert's production, while not adding at all to Hurts passing production ??

I think it removes the question mark behind our wr group. If hurts can’t get it done with this group, it’s on him, not a lack of talent around him.

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Having one of the QBs that isn't good enough isn't a real selling point for me.

And I'm certainly not going to argue that bud. I have hope but not expectation.

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I agree. I think he takes a step forwards this year (I think he's got a better supporting cast) but do I think he can be a top 10-12 QB? I have my doubts. 

 

1 hour ago, MidMoFo said:

Making better pre-snap reads could get him 4-5 more completions a game. That could be 40-50 more yards a game… that’s 700+ yards over the course of a season. It’s not impossible, but he’s got to PROVE he can do it.

 

1 hour ago, MidMoFo said:

I think it removes the question mark behind our wr group. If hurts can’t get it done with this group, it’s on him, not a lack of talent around him.

Hurts was always viewed as a developmental QB. He took a clear step up from year 1 to year 2, particularly in completion percentage and protecting the football. He now has a legitimate top 5 set of skill weapons around him. I expect him to improve with a stronger supporting cast and another year in the system (he's never had two years in the same system). 

The legitimate question is whether he can improve sufficiently to justify a second contract. He has this year. Neither Minshew or Strong are competition at this stage. If he can't show enough, the Eagles will find a new guy next year, probably in the draft. 

13 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I don't expect his rushing to stay as outrageous as they were last year and put up those numbers just to clarify. Him getting 10 rushing touchdowns again are very unlikely. Only one QB has ever gotten more than one season of that many rushing touchdowns and it's who I think Hurts is a worse version of, and that's Cam Newton. I think 22/12 if he throws more a game and under 600 rushing with 4-5tds. The starting running back got zero TDs on the ground this year. That definitely doesn't occur again without some noise being made. If 3500 21/8 at 63% is the amazing jump he needs to be the guy for you, awesome..

But I don't measure qbs by their rushing stats because they aren't sustainable and are what makes you one dimensional in stress situation . Just because you can run doesn't mean you should. Hurts is a free style dancer back there running from his shadow and pulling the ball from his RB hands and calling his own number too often for anything to last more than a few years. My guess is his goes 3200 63% and 21/12 with 600 rushing 5 TDS equating to the same touchdowns. I think you'll see frustration from the fan base and calling for his head week 10ish but they will ride it out, take the Ls and Howie will claim Hurts is the guy until draft day and then say Howie things 

I'll just point this out, Russell Wilson in season 2 of his career went 3357, 63% completion 26TD's and 9 picks plus  539 Rushing and 1TD, season 3 of his career went 3475, 63% completion 20TD's and 7 Picks and 845 Rushing with 8 TD's. He went to the pro bowl both years.

So tell me again that 3500 at 62% 21 TD's 9 Picks and 600 rushing with 5TD's isn't good enough to save Jalen Hurts job and the organisation would be kidding itself, or better still just say you want a new QB regardless and save yourself a lot of arguing back and forth.

28 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'll just point this out, Russell Wilson in season 2 of his career went 3357, 63% completion 26TD's and 9 picks plus  539 Rushing and 1TD, season 3 of his career went 3475, 63% completion 20TD's and 7 Picks and 845 Rushing with 8 TD's. He went to the pro bowl both years.

So tell me again that 3500 at 62% 21 TD's 9 Picks and 600 rushing with 5TD's isn't good enough to save Jalen Hurts job and the organisation would be kidding itself, or better still just say you want a new QB regardless and save yourself a lot of arguing back and forth.

Think it would heavily depend on how those numbers are obtained overall. Does he still strike out against playoff teams? Is he compiling a bunch of stats when the other team is already asleep? Can he win a playoff game, Etc. 

He would need to leave no doubt that he's worth a big extension, because that time is approaching.

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'll just point this out, Russell Wilson in season 2 of his career went 3357, 63% completion 26TD's and 9 picks plus  539 Rushing and 1TD, season 3 of his career went 3475, 63% completion 20TD's and 7 Picks and 845 Rushing with 8 TD's. He went to the pro bowl both years.

So tell me again that 3500 at 62% 21 TD's 9 Picks and 600 rushing with 5TD's isn't good enough to save Jalen Hurts job and the organisation would be kidding itself, or better still just say you want a new QB regardless and save yourself a lot of arguing back and forth.

21 TDS ranked 16th this year (Ryan Tannehill)

3500 yards 18th  (Carson Wentz)

63% 25th (Andy Dalton )

So middle of the pack again with those improved numbers with a ridiculously talented offense and looking for crazy money.  I want someone who doesn't equate to average and below average QB and I definitely don't want to pay them 30 million plus 

 If he gets lots of junk time stats again and only pulls up to that....yes, I am going to want to move on yesterday. The love for being mediocre in this fan base is awful. Like it's why I truly don't like the eagle fan base most days. Not being top 15 in ANY stat as a QB with all those weapons means it would be easy to see he isn't the guy. Give year 3 Russ this talent and line and he would of been a 4k, 28td kinda guy on accident.

I also don't want to have the "look! He improved again! Wait til next year!" Mentality with this collection of talent. Other than secondary and QB, this may be a Superbowl contending quality team. 

He will get the Dak treatment this year. Here's the world, make it go. Everyone screams Dak is extremely overrated,..well Daks numbers would make eagle fans scream up and down to keep him by your responses to my numbers lol 

 

 

15 hours ago, downundermike said:

People act like adding AJ Brown is just going to add production.  Have you ever stopped to think that it may cut into Smith and Goedert's production, while not adding at all to Hurts passing production ??

Not really, but I do think the trade cuts into Reagor's production. I expect both Smith and Goedert to see an increase in production.

15 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Not really, but I do think the trade cuts into Reagor's production. I expect both Smith and Goedert to see an increase in production.

Me getting off my couch cuts into Reagor production

13 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Not really, but I do think the trade cuts into Reagor's production. I expect both Smith and Goedert to see an increase in production.

Brown will out produce Reagor, Smith and Goedert will out produce what they did last year... and all of this will happen with Jalen Hurts at QB?   Wow.  I guess they will have to expect that he won't be the team's leading rusher this year for that to happen.  

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

 The love for being mediocre in this fan base is awful. Like it's why I truly don't like the eagle fan base most days.

Everybody wants players to be great and to be tops at their positions. But what's funny to me is that so many people have short memories. The 2017 Eagles team was chalk full of mediocre. But they were a team in a team sport. They were the best team that season. 

The part of the fan base you hate isn't demanding mediocre football. They are actually rooting for the team, rooting for the players to improve and to make plays that help the team win games. You seem to have developed some kind of warped perspective where supporting players that have not yet established themselves as elite is somehow cancerous to the team. I guess your version of being a fan is the only proper and acceptable way. If only that "right way" made a difference. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Brown will out produce Reagor, Smith and Goedert will out produce what they did last year... and all of this will happen with Jalen Hurts at QB?   Wow.  I guess they will have to expect that he won't be the team's leading rusher this year for that to happen.  

Hurts wouldn't have been the leading rusher last year if Sanders could stay healthy. But, unlike you, I expect Hurts to continue to improve in areas and fully expect the team to pass for more yards than last year. 

14 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

He had 3200 yards because the first 5-6 games Sirianni tried to be the 2013 Broncos.

Once NS realized Hurts stunk, and running the ball...a lot... was key, Hurts averaged ... wait for it.. 14 completions for 177 yards. 

Think about that, in his first 5 games he had 1365 yards, was 2-5. in his last 10 games he had 1779

 

By the way... 177 x 17 game full season is 3000 yards. 

Great. So Hurts only needs to get 18-19 completions per game to break 4000 yards. It seems reasonably obtainable to me. 

13 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

He had 3200 yards because the first 5-6 games Sirianni tried to be the 2013 Broncos.

Once NS realized Hurts stunk, and running the ball...a lot... was key, Hurts averaged ... wait for it.. 14 completions for 177 yards. 

Think about that, in his first 5 games he had 1365 yards, was 2-5. in his last 10 games he had 1779

 

By the way... 177 x 17 game full season is 3000 yards. 

Fair point to a degree, but the Eagles didn’t trade for Brown to just block.

I fully expect a more balanced offense this year. We have the weapons now, need to see what Hurts can do.

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Everybody wants players to be great and to be tops at their positions. But what's funny to me is that so many people have short memories. The 2017 Eagles team was chalk full of mediocre. But they were a team in a team sport. They were the best team that season. 

The part of the fan base you hate isn't demanding mediocre football. They are actually rooting for the team, rooting for the players to improve and to make plays that help the team win games. You seem to have developed some kind of warped perspective where supporting players that have not yet established themselves as elite is somehow cancerous to the team. I guess your version of being a fan is the only proper and acceptable way. If only that "right way" made a difference. 

Not the case at all. We have all had players we liked and defended in spite of their on field performance. Difference for me now is understanding that I can't **** at Howie for drafting overachievers and fantasizing how it will all work out when he really is just playing to what his fan base is in love with. Howie is even learning you want a better product, buy from the better stores. 

63.7%  3035 yards 20 tds 6ints  pro bowl

61.7% 3023 yards 17 TDS 6 ints 

62.6% 2799 yards 14tds 4ints

This happened to the Bills not too long ago. A guy with a similar skill set and lovability as Hurts was given the keys and ended up a pro bowler. Fans excited couldn't wait for year two. Team couldn't wait for next season because they got their leader! They got their guy! Next year he regressors a little bit, but his legs keep collecting numbers so they feel okay about it but some fan base starts to question what happens if he regresses again....then the last year as the starter he regresses a little further yet again despite having his first winning record...the team decided to move on. The reality is the legs made him miss games and the league began breaking down films and the experiment was over.  As a fan of the sport before I am of any team, I could recognize this pattern and I'm like oh ish