Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Swoop]

7 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You are correct.  That's one.  

Is it, though? He didn't pass for a ton of yards, that's true. Having said that, he was 14th in passing TDs, 13th in INT percentage, 6th in QB rating and had 3 game winning drives (only 8 players had more, but he was tied with a bunch). He also won the Super Bowl and led yet another game winning drive to beat an amazing offense and future Hall of Famer.

By comparison, Hurts also didn't throw for a ton of yards. He was 23rd in passing TDs, 13th in INT percentage, 22nd in QB rating and had 14 QBs with more game winning drives (again, tied with a bunch). In the playoffs he was hot garbage and embarrassed himself.

So I suppose you could use Brady as an example, but it's a bit of a stretch, IMO. Regardless, Brady led the league in TDs his following year iirc. Regardless of what anyone wants to believe, I think many of us would be beyond thrilled if Hurts can do the same (or close to it).

[Nivraga]

I've only read the last couple pages - I don't want to quote a bunch of people because I see valid arguments on both sides. I'm just going to add my dime (use to be 2 cents but ya know ... inflation) and get out. 

It's a very complicated scenario that I'm going to try to keep simple. The last we saw of Hurts, he "LOOKED" like a Running Back playing QB - much better than Brian Mitchell but still. Anyone who won't admit that is just being stubborn. (Makes them feel like they're conceding the argument I guess) I believe Hurts can make the leap that very few QBs have been able to make. However I certainly get why others don't. Otto Graham was a running back before he became a QB - and anyone who wants shout that it was a way way way different league then, you would be correct - but make no mistake - Otto was a passer - still holds the NFL record for career yards per attempt. 

Most importantly for Hurts this season is passing the eyeball test. He needs to look like a QB and play well. Stats are important but not nearly as important as how he gets them. He needs to show that the game has slowed down for him - that he has command of the playbook and sees the whole field. Watched "Hustle" a few weeks ago and Sandlers character made a comment that a lot of us know as an old truth - "good players always know where they are on the court (field). Great players know where everyone is on the court (field)."

Using McNabb as a bench mark. First - the obvious - McNabb had an absolute howitzer for an arm. That's something Hurts will never have. At the top of his game (it appeared that) McNabb knew the offense as well as anyone. I don't see any impediment for Hurts there. I don't think McNabb had superior spacial awareness. The biggest reason that McNabb and Fredex didn't mesh is because Freddie liked to freelance. McNabb didn't throw it to him because Freddie wasn't where he was suppose to be and McNabb either didn't know where he was or trust that he was open. 

Last year there was a play (don't remember the specific game) near the goal line where Hurts threw ball out the back of the endzone when he had a receiver wide open on his right. On the play, Hurts dropped back looking left and then straight forward before he unloaded. I can't remember if he was throwing to a receiver in tight coverage or just threw it away but he missed an easy TD if he had just looked to his right. Post game coach was asked and the excuse was that the receiver in question was like 4th or 5th on his progression and he just didn't have time. Now, the reason you have 4th and 5th progressions even though there isn't ever time is to give the defense something to do. It was a blown coverage and my argument against the progression excuse was that the defender that was suppose to be covering the guy on the right was standing in the middle of the field. The QB (not just Hurts) is suppose to recognize when a defender isn't where he suppose to be which in this case would have prompted a peak to the right and  - viola - easy touchdown. There were too many examples of wide open receivers that didn't get a look last year. 

Unlike most of his critics, I think Hurts arm is good enough now and he can improve it. What I think is most pivotal for Hurts future here will be his ability to read the defense pre snap, understand where all of his players are suppose to be and more important where the defense is suppose to be. He has to get to his 2nd and 3rd progression when necessary and put the ball where it needs to be. He doesn't need to look like Peyton Manning in his 10th season. Just enough for us to think --- that's a Quarterback. If he shows that kind of development in any substantial way, he'll get a long term offer.

 

What won't be at all ironic or coincidental is that if Hurts is able to do what I outlined above, the stats will be there.

 

[Infam]

4 hours ago, Swoop said:

By comparison, Hurts also didn't throw for a ton of yards. He was 23rd in passing TDs, 13th in INT percentage, 22nd in QB rating and had 14 QBs with more game winning drives (again, tied with a bunch). In the playoffs he was hot garbage and embarrassed himself.

I think we all agree that if this year ends like last year Hurts will most likely be gone. I think it was an achievement we made playoffs last year but one and done with this roster ain’t gonna cut it.

But we were talking about a deep playoff run..

[Swoop]

13 minutes ago, Infam said:

I think we all agree that if this year ends like last year Hurts will most likely be gone. I think it was an achievement we made playoffs last year but one and done with this roster ain’t gonna cut it.

But we were talking about a deep playoff run..

I know..

[Talonblood]

Hurts is an RRR_QB.... RollRightRun™ QB. That better have changed, but he is still doing it- even on 7 on 7's. Football god's help us.

[EazyEaglez]

17 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I can’t accept either.

Then you must be a very frustrated Eagles fan, because the majority of the Eagles quarterbacks in most of their history of average or lower. 

[eglz1]

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Then you must be a very frustrated Eagles fan, because the majority of the Eagles quarterbacks in most of their history of average or lower. 

And the brain trust appears to be on course to get another of those, this one somewhat lower than average (IMO of course).

[EazyEaglez]

Some food for thought for all the people who seem to think elite quarterbacks just grow on trees. Donovan McNabb is the best quarterback in Eagles history and half of you hate the guy. Yes McWormburners is the greatest achievement, but yeah the next guy is gonna be awesome just like Kevin Kolb right? Oh is it okay to write about former quarterbacks? I know how sensitive that topic can be to some of you. 😂🤣😂 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, eglz1 said:

And the brain trust appears to be on course to get another of those, this one somewhat lower than average (IMO of course).

This is the status quo, but remember this brain trust is the only ones that got Philly a championship so good luck telling them they’re doing it wrong. 

[eglz1]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

This is the status quo, but remember this brain trust is the only ones that got Philly a championship so good luck telling them they’re doing it wrong. 

They've been riding that Super Bowl LII horse for a few years now. Where has it gotten them? Not close to the big dance, I think we can agree on that. No 'making the playoffs' as a 7th seed and getting embarrassed doesn't count.

[Shalodeep]

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Some food for thought for all the people who seem to think elite quarterbacks just grow on trees. Donovan McNabb is the best quarterback in Eagles history and half of you hate the guy. Yes McWormburners is the greatest achievement, but yeah the next guy is gonna be awesome just like Kevin Kolb right? Oh is it okay to write about former quarterbacks? I know how sensitive that topic can be to some of you. 😂🤣😂 

The reason that this doesn't work is because hurts isn't equivalent to mcnabb and we are looking for better....he is equivalent to kolb and we are looking for better 

[eagle45]

16 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Then you must be a very frustrated Eagles fan, because the majority of the Eagles quarterbacks in most of their history of average or lower. 

So is that a reason to accept average or lower?

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, eglz1 said:

They've been riding that Super Bowl LII horse for a few years now. Where has it gotten them? Not close to the big dance, I think we can agree on that. No 'making the playoffs' as a 7th seed and getting embarrassed doesn't count.

Same could be said for some of these elite quarterbacks too, because once teams start paying these guys it becomes harder and harder to field a team. How many Super Bowls has Rodgers won since he got paid? Now his best receiver is in Oakland. How does the best quarterback in football get bounced out the playoffs at home after a bye week? The Eagles are in the same boat too. They decided to pay the young guy with potential and it capstrapped their team and they quickly became that wild card team that you’re speaking of. Personally I would rather the Eagles never commit to any quarterback long term for big money again unless that guy is truly elite. 

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

The reason that this doesn't work is because hurts isn't equivalent to mcnabb and we are looking for better....he is equivalent to kolb and we are looking for better 

You can look till you’re blue in the face. Those guys don’t grow on trees especially if they haven’t been developed and groomed. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

So is that a reason to accept average or lower?

All I’m stating is realistically there is less than 5 guys in the league considered elite. Many of those guys don’t win Super Bowls as much as people think. Heck people are now trying to change the narrative that Matt Stafford is elite. He’s not, and the only reason he won was because he was with a great team and coach. I’d rather have a great team than a great quarterback. 

[Shalodeep]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

You can look till you’re blue in the face. Those guys don’t grow on trees especially if they haven’t been developed and groomed. 

Who said it was easy? How long did buffalo try to replace Kelly? How long did it take for Cincinnati to get the guy? But you don't stop because it's hard.....Jalen has had top coaching since college and still has the worst of habits. He doesn't want to be developed and you can tell that because every time someone ask about his bad habits and changing them. He is dismissive 

[eglz1]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Personally I would rather the Eagles never commit to any quarterback long term for big money again unless that guy is truly elite. 

The rest of the league is going to have to feel the same way. Otherwise you risk your guy going to another team just as he's  maturing into his prime and you become a quarterback farm team. You have to be able to correctly guess when someone is "truly elite" without first having won 2 Super bowls. It's not an easy road to navigate.

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, eglz1 said:

The rest of the league is going to have to feel the same way. Otherwise you risk your guy going to another team just as he's  maturing into his prime and you become a quarterback farm team. You have to be able to correctly guess when someone is "truly elite" without first having won 2 Super bowls. It's not an easy road to navigate.

Teams change mindsets all the time and the league adapts to those teams. If the Eagles are successful with a dominant team, but and average quarterback consistently then teams will change. Heck Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks and none of them were elite. Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer has as many rings as many of these quarterbacks you want to chase after.

[eglz1]

3 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Who said it was easy? How long did buffalo try to replace Kelly? How long did it take for Cincinnati to get the guy? But you don't stop because it's hard.....Jalen has had top coaching since college and still has the worst of habits. He doesn't want to be developed and you can tell that because every time someone ask about his bad habits and changing them. He is dismissive 

Surely not like the object of EasyEaglez hatred? 😀

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, eglz1 said:

Surely not like the object of EasyEaglez hatred? 😀

For the record I don’t hate the Commanders quarterback. He just isn’t as good as we all thought he was, but I do enjoy digging at those who seem still think he is that guy and can’t admit the truth to themselves. 😂

[EazyEaglez]

7 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Who said it was easy? How long did buffalo try to replace Kelly? How long did it take for Cincinnati to get the guy? But you don't stop because it's hard.....Jalen has had top coaching since college and still has the worst of habits. He doesn't want to be developed and you can tell that because every time someone ask about his bad habits and changing them. He is dismissive 

No you build a football team and improve around what you have. Has the Bengals or Bills won a Super Bowl? Heck the Rams just traded for a guy and won a Super Bowl, and two years earlier they went with Goff who everyone says can’t play. 

[Swoop]

23 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Some food for thought for all the people who seem to think elite quarterbacks just grow on trees. Donovan McNabb is the best quarterback in Eagles history and half of you hate the guy. Yes McWormburners is the greatest achievement, but yeah the next guy is gonna be awesome just like Kevin Kolb right? Oh is it okay to write about former quarterbacks? I know how sensitive that topic can be to some of you. 😂🤣😂 

Can we get a list of people on here who hate McNabb or is this more conjecture?

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, Swoop said:

Can we get a list of people on here who hate McNabb or is this more conjecture?

Do I need to list the people who hate McNabb? Is that more or less relevant than the fact he’s the best quarterback in Eagles history while people are assuming that elite quarterbacks grow on trees? 

[eagle45]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

All I’m stating is realistically there is less than 5 guys in the league considered elite. Many of those guys don’t win Super Bowls as much as people think. Heck people are now trying to change the narrative that Matt Stafford is elite. He’s not, and the only reason he won was because he was with a great team and coach. I’d rather have a great team than a great quarterback. 

What about a good team and a bad quarterback?  What are the sb chances there?

[Iggles_Phan]

The Eagles don't need an elite QB... they need a competent passer.  They don't have that right now.  Hurts is a one dimensional QB, who when he tries to pass eliminates roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the field.  The Bucs proved that it was easy to shut him down.  Stack the LOS to contain the running game, and keep him from being able to make easy throws to the flat, and to his right.  The result was an anemic offense for 3 quarters... by which time, the game was over and they were just looking to get it over with and move on to the next round.  This is the same blueprint the Giants used against him in Game 1, and unless he proves that he can do more than he did last year, we'll see more of the same.  The good news is, this schedule might be even weaker than last year's so easy wins will be there for the taking.  The bad news is, this schedule might be even weaker than last year's so easy wins will be there for the taking.