Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[jsb235]

7 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

16 passing TDS in 15 games.  We can all agree Davis Mills in Houston is a fringe type starter I'm the NFL and he had the same amount of passing TDs in FOUR less games. Also had a higher completion percentage. He had more games of 300 yards passing, had one less multiple touchdown game with FOUR less starts on a far worse team. I'm not making the fringe part up. He is closer to falling out of the top twenty than making it into the top ten right now. That's fringe starter.

And the same amount of turnovers in four less games, and 60 fewer total yards per game and fewer passing yards a game. 

Hurts is closer to Josh Allen than Mills is to Hurts. 

[Shalodeep]

6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I find it hard to understand how you can cast Hurts in such a negative light but at the same time admit that only an established top 10 qb would be an upgrade. 

It seems hard to reconcile, and the fact that he is as good or better than any number of recent first-round picks, including one the team wanted, should have an impact on your opinion of him. 

In my last post I said he is capable of running a safe offense without turning over the ball.  That works for now until something much better comes along. He is a good place holder for the price. I stated that already. Also, he is closer to Mills than Allen. The drugs you are on or the drugs you need are hella strong if you believe that. Mills was a real rookie, not a second years rookie with 100 built in excuses

[Shalodeep]

19 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

And the same amount of turnovers in four less games, and 60 fewer total yards per game and fewer passing yards a game. 

Hurts is closer to Josh Allen than Mills is to Hurts. 

Also...total yards again...I was talking about QB, not RBs. Keep up 

Mills was only 5 yards a game below jalen in the air and didn't have Dallas or devonta to toss the ball too. 

Mills passing numbers if stretched to 17 games is 24.7 TDS.... We will see who wins the air game between the two, but they should NOT be close with all the talent Hurts was given 

If both stay healthy, I say he ends up closed to Mills numbers than Allen. 

[The Blackfish]

13 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

And the same amount of turnovers in four less games, and 60 fewer total yards per game and fewer passing yards a game. 

Hurts is closer to Josh Allen than Mills is to Hurts. 

 I’ve posted this once already, please stop saying Hurts is closer to Allen than yada yada yada, he isn’t, it’s embarrassing enough FFS.  
 

Hurts can’t even dream about that throw, no one in the NFL can, except for maybe Mahomes…., maybe. 

[jsb235]

7 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

In my last post I said he is capable of running a safe offense without turning over the ball.  That works for now until something much better comes along. He is a good place holder for the price. I stated that already. Also, he is closer to Mills than Allen. The drugs you are on or the drugs you need are hella strong if you believe that. Mills was a real rookie, not a second years rookie with 100 built in excuses

Based on last year's stats, here are each qbs projections over a 17 game season. 

Allen averages about 300 total yards a game, scores 40 TDs and turns the ball over 18 times. 

Hurts averages about 260 yards a game, averages 30 TDs and 13 turnovers. 

Mills averages 220 yards a game, 23 TDs and 16 turnovers. 

Also, you made a math mistake in your calculations. Mills played the equivalent of 12 games last year. Hurts played 15 games. So Mills played in 3 less games, not 4.

[Shalodeep]

2 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Based on last year's stats, here are each qbs projections over a 17 game season. 

Allen averages about 300 total yards a game, scores 40 TDs and turns the ball over 18 times. 

Hurts averages about 260 yards a game, averages 30 TDs and 13 turnovers. 

Mills averages 220 yards a game, 23 TDs and 16 turnovers. 

Also, you made a math mistake in your calculations. Mills played the equivalent of 12 games last year. Hurts played 15 games. So Mills played in 3 less games, not 4.

XD and still got spanked in passing touchdowns and completion percentage by a 3rd rounder on a crap team. Not proving much by adding 1 game. 

[jsb235]

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

XD and still got spanked in passing touchdowns and completion percentage by a 3rd rounder on a crap team. Not proving much by adding 1 game. 

The Texans and Eagles had the same number of wins in 2020. The win difference between the 2 teams in 2021 was heavily impacted by qb play. More yards, more TDs and fewer turnovers. 

You may not like that fact, but your opinion isn't relevant. 

[Shalodeep]

39 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The Texans and Eagles had the same number of wins in 2020. The win difference between the 2 teams in 2021 was heavily impacted by qb play. More yards, more TDs and fewer turnovers. 

You may not like that fact, but your opinion isn't relevant. 

Neither is yours asshat. If you think the Texans and Philly were that close of teams going into last year, you know nothing about football...I mean I have seen your post so I would lean that direction anyway 

[eglz1]

47 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The Texans and Eagles had the same number of wins in 2020. The win difference between the 2 teams in 2021 was heavily impacted by qb play. More yards, more TDs and fewer turnovers. 

You may not like that fact, but your opinion isn't relevant. 

You know you're comparing a 1st year Rookie (you know, an ACTUAL rookie) with a 2rd year "rookie", right?

🤣 🤣

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

You know you're comparing a 1st year Rookie (you know, an ACTUAL rookie) with a 3rd year "rookie", right?

🤣 🤣

A 1st year rookie who was not intended to be the starter.

A 2nd year rookie who took every offseason snap as the unquestioned starter.

Yeah, sounds the same to me.

[KDUB1510]

40 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The Texans and Eagles had the same number of wins in 2020. The win difference between the 2 teams in 2021 was heavily impacted by qb play.

You're kidding right? The 2020 texans had Watson who threw for 4800 yards, 33/7 while completing 70% of his passes and they only won 4 games. They're just a trash team. Not comparable to the 2020 eagles who were riddled with injury along the offensive line and got possibly the worst QB play in the league from Wentz. Eagles got average QB play in 2021 and went back to being the 9 win football team they've been since the Super Bowl

[eglz1]

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

16 passing TDS in 15 games.  We can all agree Davis Mills in Houston is a fringe type starter I'm the NFL and he had the same amount of passing TDs in FOUR less games. Also had a higher completion percentage. He had more games of 300 yards passing, had one less multiple touchdown game with FOUR less starts on a far worse team. I'm not making the fringe part up. He is closer to falling out of the top twenty than making it into the top ten right now. That's fringe starter.

But Mills was an actual ...... wait for it ..... ROOKIE! He didn't have a year with the team with 4 starts plus a full offseason. That might make a difference.

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

16 passing TDS in 15 games.  We can all agree Davis Mills in Houston is a fringe type starter I'm the NFL and he had the same amount of passing TDs in FOUR less games. Also had a higher completion percentage. He had more games of 300 yards passing, had one less multiple touchdown game with FOUR less starts on a far worse team. I'm not making the fringe part up. He is closer to falling out of the top twenty than making it into the top ten right now. That's fringe starter.

Your definition of a QB is a guy that leads a passing attack. My definition is a guy that leads an offense.

Texans' ranks offensively:

Yards: 32

1st downs: 32

Scoring percentage: 31

Net yards per drive: 31

Average points per drive: 30

 

Eagles' ranks offensively:

Yards: 14

1st downs: 14

Scoring percentage: 10

Net yards per drive:  7

Average points per drive: 12

 

When it comes to Mills, I haven't studied him, nor have I made a conclusion about my perception of him as a player. I'll probably notice him more if his team starts winning games and isn't constantly playing from behind. I couldn't care less about total passing yards or passing TDs when my offense is ranked in the top half of almost every category related to total offense. Troy Aikman never had to lead the NFL in passing or TDs to put together a HOF career managing his team's offense on the way to success. 

 

In my definition of "fringe starter" ---  it would be a player that struggles to retain a starting job at his position. It certainly wouldn't describe a player that improved from his first year to 2nd year as a team's starter. Minshew would be a good example. He's currently a backup on his team, but he is capable of starting if a team needed him to. I realize in your little world, Hurts hasn't met your expectations as a passer. But he is proving to be an effective leader/offensive game manager regardless of how little that matters to you. It's a team sport and it's the team's success that matters, not the QB's passing stats. 

 

 

[Shalodeep]

Davis Mills last five games aka got a few games under his belt. 9tds/2ints. No game under 63.3% completion percentage 

Jalen's last five games this year 3tds/4ints. 3 games under 60% completion percentage... You may wanna back out of this conversation 

[Shalodeep]

5 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Your definition of a QB is a guy that leads a passing attack. My definition is a guy that leads an offense.

Texans' ranks offensively:

Yards: 32

1st downs: 32

Scoring percentage: 31

Net yards per drive: 31

Average points per drive: 30

 

Eagles' ranks offensively:

Yards: 14

1st downs: 14

Scoring percentage: 10

Net yards per drive:  7

Average points per drive: 12

 

When it comes to Mills, I haven't studied him, nor have I made a conclusion about my perception of him as a player. I'll probably notice him more if his team starts winning games and isn't constantly playing from behind. I couldn't care less about total passing yards or passing TDs when my offense is ranked in the top half of almost every category related to total offense. Troy Aikman never had to lead the NFL in passing or TDs to put together a HOF career managing his team's offense on the way to success. 

 

In my definition of "fringe starter" ---  it would be a player that struggles to retain a starting job at his position. It certainly wouldn't describe a player that improved from his first year to 2nd year as a team's starter. Minshew would be a good example. He's currently a backup on his team, but he is capable of starting if a team needed him to. I realize in your little world, Hurts hasn't met your expectations as a passer. But he is proving to be an effective leader/offensive game manager regardless of how little that matters to you. It's a team sport and it's the team's success that matters, not the QB's passing stats. 

 

 

Can you name the starting receivers or running back in Houston from last year? Without the controversy, would you of been able to name the coach? Mills did it with nothing, and shown the last five games he is a real threat at QB... It doesn't take seasons to see growth.. but keep waiting for him to become an average passer....

[brkmsn]

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Can you name the starting receivers or running back in Houston from last year? Without the controversy, would you of been able to name the coach? Mills did it with nothing, and shown the last five games he is a real threat at QB... It doesn't take seasons to see growth.. but keep waiting for him to become an average passer....

The texans were 2-3 in the last 5 games. We were 3-1 and then threw the final game to rest our starters. 

LOL @ the idea that young QBs don't continue to grow with each season.

[Shalodeep]

26 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

The texans were 2-3 in the last 5 games. We were 3-1 and then threw the final game to rest our starters. 

LOL @ the idea that young QBs don't continue to grow with each season.

Never said they didn't grow each season. I'm saying his growth at this point is slow as hell versus what Mills did just last year. And he as a starter was 4-1. I won't take that from Hurts and neither should you. Wanna guess the how many of those had winning records and had their starting qb or Jones?

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

Never said they didn't grow each season. I'm saying his growth at this point is slow as hell versus what Mills did just last year. And he as a starter was 4-1. I won't take that from Hurts and neither should you. Wanna guess the how many of those had winning records and had their starting qb or Jones?

You are still living in 2021. Hurts and his teammates have moved on and continue to work on their game. Many players, coaches, and media sources are noticing improvement in Hurts compared to last season. 

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

You are still living in 2021. Hurts and his teammates have moved on and continue to work on their game. Many players, coaches, and media sources are noticing improvement in Hurts compared to last season. 

I've noticed and have given him credit multiple times over some of the positives I've seen....but we can only talk about everything that's happened at this point. What you are doing is speculation. It's a little pie in the sky mentality. I'm comparing what I've seen last with someone who is a fringe QB and he wasn't good in comparison. With this team, all Hurts has to do is play within the system and he should be good enough to get to the playoffs. Problem some of us have seen so far is escaping for no reason and rolling consistently to the right. I did like his usage of the middle of the field and seeing him keep his eyes down field on one of those roll outs. As fans, being critical is part of it. I also have given kudos in his game. I don't care what the paid media does to hype this kid. I care about the product on the field.

[Bwestbrook36]

31 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I've noticed and have given him credit multiple times over some of the positives I've seen....but we can only talk about everything that's happened at this point. What you are doing is speculation. It's a little pie in the sky mentality. I'm comparing what I've seen last with someone who is a fringe QB and he wasn't good in comparison. With this team, all Hurts has to do is play within the system and he should be good enough to get to the playoffs. Problem some of us have seen so far is escaping for no reason and rolling consistently to the right. I did like his usage of the middle of the field and seeing him keep his eyes down field on one of those roll outs. As fans, being critical is part of it. I also have given kudos in his game. I don't care what the paid media does to hype this kid. I care about the product on the field.

Even in practice how many times this year have they reported him rolling right and throwing across his body to the middle of the field? If he is doing it in scrimmages and practice where he can't be touched what is h going to do in real games? 

[Shalodeep]

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Even in practice how many times this year have they reported him rolling right and throwing across his body to the middle of the field? If he is doing it in scrimmages and practice where he can't be touched what is h going to do in real games? 

He will take off in those situations. You know it, I know it 

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Even in practice how many times this year have they reported him rolling right and throwing across his body to the middle of the field? If he is doing it in scrimmages and practice where he can't be touched what is h going to do in real games? 

 

[EazyEaglez]

22 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Even in practice how many times this year have they reported him rolling right and throwing across his body to the middle of the field? If he is doing it in scrimmages and practice where he can't be touched what is h going to do in real games? 

Why does it feel like we over analyze practice for some while under analyzing it for others? Ultimately the preseason doesn’t matter. TC doesn’t matter. Heck practice doesn’t matter. What happens in the games is what matters. Let’s see how things go in games. Right now IMO the excuses are out the door for Hurts. He’s in his second season with the same offense finally, the Eagles surrounded him with weapons on offense and defense, and now he’s in his third season. It’s time to put up this season. 

[MF POON]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:15 PM, The Blackfish said:

 I’ve posted this once already, please stop saying Hurts is closer to Allen than yada yada yada, he isn’t, it’s embarrassing enough FFS.  
 

Hurts can’t even dream about that throw, no one in the NFL can, except for maybe Mahomes…., maybe. 

That throw isn't as dreamy as you think it is. And the comparison to Allen is about whether Hurts can take that leap Josh did, where he's running less and throwing more (while also being more accurate). No one was gushing over Allen in his first two seasons, but now he's rated as one of the best in the league. If Jalen manages to crack top ten, he's worth keeping around.

[TorontoEagle]

On 8/19/2022 at 5:10 PM, MF POON said:

That's not really a knock on Hurts though, that's simply due to us having a quality backup. Similiar to how when we had Wentz/Foles, the dropoff wasn't significant, in fact, many wanted Foles to start (like many want Mr. Stache to start).

In regard to all of the other stuff. Yes, many of us want Hurts to improve, but it's funny how some say Hurts simply can't and that he lacks the ability to. I'm not saying anyone here is racist, but we've seen this countless times when comparing Black and White QB's. Just look at all the hate Lamar Jackson has been receiving recently, and that guy won league MVP.  Hurts has had 1 whole season as a starter and fans have already decided he will fail in his second as one.  In reality there is no "hope" from some that he'll succeed, they just want him to fail.  When he played well in preseason, the same people criticizing him simply stayed quiet, or they found a way to nitpick about how he could've played better (I believe he had a perfect qb rating).

The fact that you ridiculed Hurts so much after one playoff game cements my belief, as if Rodgers hasn't failed repeatedly in the playoffs. We also were a crap team last year, so not all the blame goes on Hurts for losses against winning teams.

It's absolutely a knock on Hurts. If the talent disparity between him and Minshew is negligible, and most consider Minshew a good back-up, then you'd also have to classify Hurts as a good back-up. Which he is. The talent disparity between Rodgers/Minshew, or Brady/Minshew is Grand Canyon sized. 

"I'm not saying anybody is racist, but if you criticize black QBs, you're racist". Hurts and Lamar are the same type of QB, in that they are run first, pass second. That style of QB just doesn't work. Sure, you can win regular season games and beat up on crappy teams. But when the playoffs come, those QBs get shut down. We've seen it time and time again. Force them to actually pass, and they fall apart. The other part of run first QBs is they get hurt more often and early. Hurts was banged up already last year. Jackson has missed time. Now, almost every single NFL player will miss a season in their career basically, but these guys will be constantly dinged up and injured. And it affects their running, which forces them to pass more, and bad things happen because they aren't good passers and don't work on it. Look at Hurts December stats last year.

Rodgers playoff failures are bad. There's no denying that. GB should have at least one more SB win in his tenure. He's been soundly criticized for it, just as Peyton Manning was until he won a Super Bowl. They still give you the best chance of sustained excellence, year in and year out, because they are generally reliable. Running QBs, you don't know when they're going to get injured, they're generally far "streakier" than traditional QBs. Calling people racists for criticizing Hurts is just absurd. Especially here, when most of us have cheered on McNabb, Cunningham, Vick, etc. 

We are critical of Hurts because we've seen him not progress from college. Go read his draft profile, and every one of his negatives is still a negative, and they're really bad negatives for a QB to have. Nick Saban is a pretty good judge of talent, and he moved on from the guy. We hope he's a top 10 QB, because it would be the best thing for the team, but we have a pretty good idea he's not it. And that's bolstered by the FO making many attempts to move on from him. As soon as they have a better option, they're moving on, unless he has some transcendent year. 

Finally, the playoff game last year. Tell me something, because you brought up the Rodgers comparison. Have you ever seen an opposing DC say that Rodgers doesn't know how to read a defense? Cause there's tape of it about Hurts, backed up by on field evidence. If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what will.