2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Prime McNabb? Easily hits those numbers at minimum with this current roster and these current rules. Easy. 

That's why I think the McNabb Hurts conversation is silly. Other than being mobile and accuracy issues, their games were different. McNabb would probably be a top 10-12 QB year in, year out 

13 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

I don't think that at all. This has nothing to do with race. I think people don't like Hurts because he had a bad scouting report, was drafted in the second round when the Eagles had a QB, and was a project player that started before he should have. That made up a lot of people's minds before he really had a chance to get better.

I also think that people do not like when a team tries to do different things and does not do what everyone else does. That is why so many do not like Lamar Jackson.

Because "doing different things" generally doesn't work out very well in the NFL. And there's enough evidence now that run first QBs, like Lamar and Hurts, can pile up nice looking stats in the regular season, but routinely lose in the playoffs to stiffer competition. 

Scam Newton is another great example. Piled up great stats one year, and even got to the Super Bowl. But couldn't win against a superior defense, and then he fell apart from taking too many hits. His passing numbers were never that good, and once he couldn't run anymore, he was toast. 

I would prefer my QB play from the pocket primarily, so that he can have a longer career, and not be derailed by his 30s due to injury. 

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Prime McNabb? Easily hits those numbers at minimum with this current roster and these current rules. Easy. 

Exactly.  2004, McNabb ranked top 10 in every major passing statistic.

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

The NFL isn't so different that completion percentage should be way up. Carson Wentz in 2017 (you know, his MVP year) only threw for 60% completion.  So again, why does Hurts need to be around 65%??

You are wrong.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Different NFL.  That season, McNabb's 64% was 10th in the NFL, and only the top 19 guys were north of 60%.

In 2021, McNabb's 64% would rank 22nd, and 29 guys were north of 60%.

So looking at it another way, if McNabb ranked 10th in completion percentage, then Hurts would need to be 67.2% to rank 10th.

 

Just now, MF POON said:

The NFL isn't so different that completion percentage should be way up. Carson Wentz in 2017 (you know, his MVP year) only threw for 60% completion.  So again, why does Hurts need to be around 65%??

Who here ever called Wentz accurate? 

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

The NFL isn't so different that completion percentage should be way up. Carson Wentz in 2017 (you know, his MVP year) only threw for 60% completion.  So again, why does Hurts need to be around 65%??

Yes it's completely different from the early 2000s. Completely. 

As for Wentz, if Hurts can throw for 33 TDs, with only 7 INTs and lead us to ~12 wins, then I'm fine with him throwing for 60%

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

The NFL isn't so different that completion percentage should be way up. Carson Wentz in 2017 (you know, his MVP year) only threw for 60% completion.  So again, why does Hurts need to be around 65%??

Keep reaching buddy. One day you'll reach that brass ring

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Hurts gets compared to the same 2 people over and over again. Wentz and Josh Allen

When realistically Hurts should be compared to Tyrod Taylor and Danny Jones

His best comparison is either Tim Tebow or more realistically...Miles Sanders. 

6 minutes ago, MF POON said:

The NFL isn't so different that completion percentage should be way up. 

You should not make absurd statements, especially in an age when you can look up pretty much anything.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

 

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Because "doing different things" generally doesn't work out very well in the NFL. And there's enough evidence now that run first QBs, like Lamar and Hurts, can pile up nice looking stats in the regular season, but routinely lose in the playoffs to stiffer competition. 

Scam Newton is another great example. Piled up great stats one year, and even got to the Super Bowl. But couldn't win against a superior defense, and then he fell apart from taking too many hits. His passing numbers were never that good, and once he couldn't run anymore, he was toast. 

I would prefer my QB play from the pocket primarily, so that he can have a longer career, and not be derailed by his 30s due to injury. 

Doing things differently is how you win the NFL. People get hung up on silly things like TOP or how a run-first QBs never wins, but never look at how many teams win. That is usually by being different and ahead of the curve. 

The Eagles might have never won or got to the Super Bowl, let alone win it, if Doug Pederson didn't go for it so much on 4th down. Now everyone does it.

I have said it before and will say it again - a run-first QB will win a Super Bowl. It will happen. Too many college teams are already set this way, and less and less of them are teaching QBs pro-football offenses.

This is similar to the NBA when everyone said that there is no way a team running the fast-break offense will ever win a championship. 

8 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Who here ever called Wentz accurate? 

Wentz has a 62% completion percentage for his career, which is pretty good. Tom Brady has a 64% career avg. Josh Allen was at 63% last season, which is way up from his first 2 seasons at 52% and 58% (his career avg is 62% now). So I ask, does Hurts need to be better than all of those guys in completion percentage just to be considered worthy?? 

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

Doing things differently is how you win the NFL. People get hung up on silly things like TOP or how a run-first QBs never wins, but never look at how many teams win. That is usually by being different and ahead of the curve. 

The Eagles would have never won or got to the Super Bowl, let alone win it, if Doug Pederson didn't go for it so much on 4th down. Now everyone does it.

I have said it before and will say it again - a run-first QB will win a Super Bowl. It will happen. Too many college teams are already set this way, and less and less of them are teaching QBs pro-football offenses.

This is similar to the NBA when everyone said that there is no way a team running the fast-break offense will ever win a championship. 

But the running QB change started with Cunningham, and has been tried by multiple teams in multiple decades with multiple different running QB's.

There is to many great passing QB's in the league to beat them multiple times in the playoffs.

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

Doing things differently is how you win the NFL. People get hung up on silly things like TOP or how a run-first QBs never wins, but never look at how many teams win. That is usually by being different and ahead of the curve. 

The Eagles might have never won or got to the Super Bowl, let alone win it, if Doug Pederson didn't go for it so much on 4th down. Now everyone does it.

I have said it before and will say it again - a run-first QB will win a Super Bowl. It will happen. Too many college teams are already set this way, and less and less of them are teaching QBs pro-football offenses.

This is similar to the NBA when everyone said that there is no way a team running the fast-break offense will ever win a championship. 

Matt Stafford

Nick Foles

Pat Mahomes

Peyton Manning

Russ Wilson

Joe Flacco

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Big Ben

Eli 

Peyton

Big Ben

Brad Johnson

Trent Dilfer

Kurt Warner

With Brady sprinkled in where needed. Those are the last SB winning QBs back to 99. There's a reason for that. 

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Wentz has a 62% completion percentage for his career, which is pretty good. Tom Brady has a 64% career avg. Josh Allen was at 63% last season, which is way up from his first 2 seasons at 52% and 58% (his career avg is 62% now). So I ask, does Hurts need to be better than all of those guys in completion percentage just to be considered worthy?? 

QBs who do not throw the ball and are at the absolute bottom of the NFL in completed passes per game generally run a caretaker offense and are expected to complete a high percentage of their carefully crafted pass attempts.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

But the running QB change started with Cunningham, and has been tried by multiple teams in multiple decades with multiple different running QB's.

There is to many great passing QB's in the league to beat them multiple times in the playoffs.

I'd love to see a running QB get a ring, they are exciting and fun to watch but that's where it ends. I loved watching Vick play but, knew he was never getting anywhere 

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You should not make absurd statements, especially in an age when you can look up pretty much anything.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

 

You didn't have to murder him like that XD 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

But the running QB change started with Cunningham, and has been tried by multiple teams in multiple decades with multiple different running QB's.

There is to many great passing QB's in the league to beat them multiple times in the playoffs.

It started with Cunningham, but it really did not take off until Vick had success in the league. Even then, the only team to ever truly embrace a running QB was Baltimore.

I still stick with it. I still believe that we will see a running QB win the Super Bowl. Once that happens, it is game over for a while because teams like to be copycats instead of innovators. 

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Wentz has a 62% completion percentage for his career, which is pretty good. Tom Brady has a 64% career avg. Josh Allen was at 63% last season, which is way up from his first 2 seasons at 52% and 58% (his career avg is 62% now). So I ask, does Hurts need to be better than all of those guys in completion percentage just to be considered worthy?? 

Tom Brady began in the stone age and has been raising it with the times. Allen is just overcoming his hot garbage seasons.... Wentz is a 62% type of QB.  Wanna start posting what their recent seasons look like or does that destroy your narrative 

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

It started with Cunningham, but it really did not take off until Vick had success in the league. Even then, the only team to ever truly embrace a running QB was Baltimore.

I still stick with it. I still believe that we will see a running QB win the Super Bowl. Once that happens, it is game over for a while because teams like to be copycats instead of innovators. 

And you have seen how quickly NFL defensive coordinators have shut it down in the playoffs.

I mean, the Tampa Bay defensive coaches took away the run as they had no fear of Hurts arm.

Here is Lamar Jacksons playoff stats if you do not believe me.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00/gamelog/post/

11 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You should not make absurd statements, especially in an age when you can look up pretty much anything.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

 

The issue I have with the completion % is that it's not as important of a factor when determining whether a guy can be a franchise QB.  IF that were the case, then Josh Allen would be considered a bum like Hurts, because his career avg sits at 62%!

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Matt Stafford

Nick Foles

Pat Mahomes

Peyton Manning

Russ Wilson

Joe Flacco

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Big Ben

Eli 

Peyton

Big Ben

Brad Johnson

Trent Dilfer

Kurt Warner

With Brady sprinkled in where needed. Those are the last SB winning QBs back to 99. There's a reason for that. 

I mean, I can rank how many QBs won the Super Bowl before San Francisco won with the West Coast offense, which was called silly and ludicrous, and any team that ran it would never win in the NFL.

Again just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it will never happen. If you believe in it, believe you have the players for it, and believe that you can win with it, then you should always do it regardless of what history says.

As they say, fortune favors the bold.

2 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

I mean, I can rank how many QBs won the Super Bowl before San Francisco won with the West Coast offense, which was called silly and ludicrous, and any team that ran it would never win in the NFL.

Again just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it will never happen. If you believe in it, believe you have the players for it, and believe that you can win with it, then you should always do it regardless of what history says.

As they say, fortune favors the bold.

Why not run the wildcat offense then? 

3 minutes ago, MF POON said:

The issue I have with the completion % is that it's not as important of a factor when determining whether a guy can be a franchise QB.  IF that were the case, then Josh Allen would be considered a bum like Hurts, because his career avg sits at 62%!

Oh, now you have an issue with completion percentage after I absolutely wrecked you.

How about these Josh Allen stats, 4544 and 4407 passing yards the last two years.  37 and 36 passing TD's the last two years.  How about 69.2 completion percentage in year 3, Jalen Hurts is entering year 3.

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Tom Brady began in the stone age and has been raising it with the times. Allen is just overcoming his hot garbage seasons.... Wentz is a 62% type of QB.  Wanna start posting what their recent seasons look like or does that destroy your narrative 

In 2019 Brady threw for 60%, in 2001 he threw for 63.9%. Guys like Aaron Rodgers was throwing for 71% back in 2007, but only managed 62% in 2018 and 2019. I'm asking you for the last time, why does Hurts need to sit at 65% in order to be deemed worthy?

5 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Why not run the wildcat offense then? 

The wildcat was more of a formation, not really an entire offense. However, with that said, if you have the personnel for it and you can consistently get yards by running that, then I would embrace it fully.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Oh, now you have an issue with completion percentage after I absolutely wrecked you.

How about these Josh Allen stats, 4544 and 4407 passing yards the last two years.  37 and 36 passing TD's the last two years.  How about 69.2 completion percentage in year 3, Jalen Hurts is entering year 3.

You didn't wreck anything, in fact you're making my point. Hurts' completion % "needing" to meet a certain avg in order to be a franchise QB is just nonsense.  You pointing out what Allen did his last 2 seasons is exactly why you let a QB develop, and don't can him after 1 season (Allen technically had 2 whole seasons to prove he could be a starter in 2018/2019). If the Bills had dumped Allen after his 2019 season, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to prove he can be elite.