4 minutes ago, judunno said:

Lack of opportunities. 

Well you’re right cause we have been down in almost every game this season. 😂

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Because you’re the only guy there posting videos of the guy running routes and doing nothing else. 😂🤣😂

I posted (while JJAW discussion was relevant) videos from last year for the purpose of countering certain arguments, refuting the notion that he couldn't get separation or get open. That never meant, nor did I ever suggest, he was great. Only your strawman ever made that claim. 

In the NFL, sometimes a player doesn't work out with a team for whatever reason. Maybe that will be it for his career (like Todd Pinkston) or maybe he finds a home on another team and contributes for a decade (like Ed McCaffrey). Regarding JJAW, it doesn't look like it will happen here for him. He is still here for now, so ... that might change. We all agree it seems unlikely at this point. 

4 minutes ago, judunno said:

Point is it shouldn't.... when you're playing the WORST rush defense in the league. Do you not see the flaw in that? I can see if you're down 4 scores early in the game or something but that wasn't the case.

It’s a game against your opponent and the clock too bud. You have to score to come back into the game. Running the ball eats up more time than passing does. On top of that holding calls on run plays are just drive killers. Cleveland threw the ball 53 times against the Jets and only lost by seven. 

44 minutes ago, DBW said:

They haven’t developed a single player on defense since I don’t know when...maybe the days of bobby Taylor.  They cut two talented players who are producing on other teams while we start cashiers from 7-11.  Until gym shirts is gone, I don’t want any projects on defense.  Draft and acquire talent for the next DC but this thought they can develop a tire salesman into an nfl starter is an absolute joke 

😝 They’ve developed plenty of defensive talent since Bobby Taylor days. Trent Cole and Sheldon Brown being the first two to come to mind. 
 

I do agree that Schwartz needs to go. His scheme sucks. 

54 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

You're right. He's not a starter. But as a backup, injuries forced him to start. He has shown some flashes. He has nice size and speed. He has very little experience as a CB in his football career. This is a guy that can be groomed to be a future starter. You don't throw him away after a tough week. 

How many undrafted free agents turn into quality starting CB’s? Sure, there’s a few but it’s like searching for a needle in a haystack. I wouldn’t count on him to do anything. 

Just now, brkmsn said:

I posted (while JJAW discussion was relevant) videos from last year for the purpose of countering certain arguments, refuting the notion that he couldn't get separation or get open. That never meant, nor did I ever suggest, he was great. Only your strawman ever made that claim. 

In the NFL, sometimes a player doesn't work out with a team for whatever reason. Maybe that will be it for his career (like Todd Pinkston) or maybe he finds a home on another team and contributes for a decade (like Ed McCaffrey). Regarding JJAW, it doesn't look like it will happen here for him. He is still here for now, so ... that might change. We all agree it seems unlikely at this point. 

Yeah it’s our argument he’s great, cause you posted that ridiculous video. 🙄 Why post the dumb thing if you aren’t implying he’s talented to begin with? 

10 minutes ago, weko said:

With Howie picking the players we're looking at 3-5 wins a year for the foreseeable future.

Howie is the biggest issue for all of this to me. It starts with Howie selections and rolls down to coaches, and then players. Still it’s difficult for the coaches to actually do their jobs properly when they’re give a bunch of undrafted players, bad draftpicks, and PS players to work with. 

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s a game against your opponent and the clock too bud. You have to score to come back into the game. Running the ball eats up more time than passing does. On top of that holding calls on run plays are just drive killers. Cleveland threw the ball 53 times against the Jets and only lost by seven. 

Uh... they were playing the Jets lol. And a big reason why they lost was because for whatever reason Chubb and Hunt were not relied on in a game where all of there receivers were out.

17 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

As a rookie, Sweat was a good pass rusher with a lot to learn. Last year he added weight and improved technique. This year he showed improvement as a run defender as well. He's ready to take on a starting role if needed. Sure, his knee will always be a question, but it has held up so far. It's not like he's been Buckhalter out there. 

The injury concerns make me doubt his long term projection as a 3 Down DE even more.  He plays less than half the snap as it is. He couldn’t kick a healthy Barnett off the field during non passing downs and Barnett is a borderline bust as well.  But this convo is really more about developing players not drafting talent.  If they had an elite rusher, elected corners or elite backers, we’re not having this convo. So that said, who in this defensive roster have they truly molded into an nfl player?  It took BG 11 years to make a pro bowl and that’s not because all of a sudden elite coaching made him an impact player, that’s because peers voted him in out of respect. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yeah it’s our argument he’s great, cause you posted that ridiculous video. 🙄 Why post the dumb thing if you aren’t implying he’s talented to begin with? 

First of all, I never said he wasn't talented. That's a different subject and one we never discussed. I do understand people's definitions of "talented" differ. But you don't get graded as 2nd round projection by various draft experts if you aren't "talented." He just hasn't put it together in the NFL so far. Maybe he never will. But if you're going to claim he's 5'4" tall, I'm going to post the measurements from the scouting combine to refute that claim. If it's a different claim that can be refuted by video, and there's video, I'll post video. That doesn't equate to me calling him "great." If you think it does, you really need to learn the basics of argument. It's not that hard.

6 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

😝 They’ve developed plenty of defensive talent since Bobby Taylor days. Trent Cole and Sheldon Brown being the first two to come to mind. 
 

I do agree that Schwartz needs to go. His scheme sucks. 

Oooh 2 players in the last 10-12 years 😂 

1 minute ago, DBW said:

Oooh 2 players in the last 10-12 years 😂 

200% more than the zero you claimed, and that was with very little thought being put into it. 

8 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

How many undrafted free agents turn into quality starting CB’s? Sure, there’s a few but it’s like searching for a needle in a haystack. I wouldn’t count on him to do anything. 

CBs need to be taken in the first 2 rounds.  Finding one after that is rare.  It's a premium position, along with QB, where you have to take them early.

5 minutes ago, DBW said:

The injury concerns make me doubt his long term projection as a 3 Down DE even more.  He plays less than half the snap as it is. He couldn’t kick a healthy Barnett off the field during non passing downs and Barnett is a borderline bust as well.  But this convo is really more about developing players not drafting talent.  If they had an elite rusher, elected corners or elite backers, we’re not having this convo. So that said, who in this defensive roster have they truly molded into an nfl player?  It took BG 11 years to make a pro bowl and that’s not because all of a sudden elite coaching made him an impact player, that’s because peers voted him in out of respect. 

 

 

I totally disagree with your assessment of Barnett. People might have hoped he'd be the second coming of Reggie White, but he's not. He is a very solid DE who is not a liability at all in any area of the game. You would have to be a pretty special player to unseat him as the starter. 

5 minutes ago, weko said:

CBs need to be taken in the first 2 rounds.  Finding one after that is rare.  It's a premium position, along with QB, where you have to take them early.

Get me a Surtain/Adebo or Farley/Adebo combo somehow. 
 

I would also be happy with Jalen Mayfield or Jaylen Twyman to keep the Jalen’s flowing. 

8 minutes ago, judunno said:

Uh... they were playing the Jets lol. And a big reason why they lost was because for whatever reason Chubb and Hunt were not relied on in a game where all of there receivers were out.

Again I’m only letting you see what the Eagles did is no different from what many teams have done. I could show more if you like. I will also add Sanders in this game had at least two plays where I recall him losing big yards on first down with carries and forcing the Eagles to throw. The Eagles also had a lot of presnap movement penalties today. This stuff kills drives and run opportunities. Doesn’t help that the defense allowed scores on 4 consecutive drives. 

4 minutes ago, DBW said:

Oooh 2 players in the last 10-12 years 😂 

It's a shame fans forget players like Quintin Mikell.

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

I totally disagree with your assessment of Barnett. People might have hoped he'd be the second coming of Reggie White, but he's not. He is a very solid DE who is not a liability at all in any area of the game. You would have to be a pretty special player to unseat him as the starter. 

Fair enough.  I think the expectation for Barnett is high because of his draft position.  If he was taken in the 3rd round and he is where he’s at today then I’d agree they probably developed a quality young player.  But to take him at the front of the draft you expect he either has top level talent out of the gate OR he develops into an elite player in 3-4 years. Instead he’s a rotational linemen by committee player.  Which to me isn’t progression, it’s a flat curve  

5 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I totally disagree with your assessment of Barnett. People might have hoped he'd be the second coming of Reggie White, but he's not. He is a very solid DE who is not a liability at all in any area of the game. You would have to be a pretty special player to unseat him as the starter. 

You asses EVERYONE a on this 4 win football is so much better than everyone else thinks they are. 😂🤣😂

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

It's a shame fans forget players like Quintin Mikell.

Yep. Another good example. 

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

You asses 

Are you talking to me or all of us?

Just now, brkmsn said:

Are you talking to me or all of us?

I missed an (s) yet it somehow still applies. 

just u stoopy

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It's a shame fans forget players like Quintin Mikell.

Special teams ace. Who can forget.  We’re talking about developing starters on defense.  He played for like 7 years before he got a starting safety role over Sean Considine - and it took a lot of suck from Sean before that eventually happened.   And Qs pro bowl bid came after the 2 starters couldn’t go due to injury so it’s not like he went on a first ballot 

4 minutes ago, DBW said:

Fair enough.  I think the expectation for Barnett is high because of his draft position.  If he was taken in the 3rd round and he is where he’s at today then I’d agree they probably developed a quality young player.  But to take him at the front of the draft you expect he either has top level talent out of the gate OR he develops into an elite player in 3-4 years. Instead he’s a rotational linemen by committee player.  Which to me isn’t progression, it’s a flat curve  

These aren't the Buddy Ryan days where your Pro Bowl DTs and DEs play every down. Today defenses like to rotate guys to keep them fresh. We don't take Barnett out because it's a run down or a pass down --- only because of defensive philosophy.