nipples Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Just gonna copy/paste my response from the Chase thread... Whether you are a Chase guy, or Pitts, or Smith... this sucks. Stupid Fing move. Howie can’t draft, but at least picking at 6 there were obvious choices laid out for him. At 12 he has to actually go based on his evaluation... so yeah, we’re Fed. And that first next year from Miami is going to be a low 1st rounder most likely. I think they’re a playoff team... especially after they add Chase at 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoconoDon Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 At least the off season background music is pleasant as this ship goes down... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macho Grande Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Pitts wouldn’t have been a great pick for us anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 22 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: Pitts wouldn’t have been a great pick for us anyway Yeah, who needs a stud pass catcher with a rare combination of size and speed. Those guys are so overrated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, nipples said: Yeah, who needs a stud pass catcher with a rare combination of size and speed. Those guys are so overrated. For a 4 win team with 2 pro bowl caliber TEs, I don’t exactly see him as being the missing piece 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: For a 4 win team with 2 pro bowl caliber TEs, I don’t exactly see him as being the missing piece You’re too wrapped up in positions. Pitts has Kelce/Kittle type ability. He’s not just a traditional tight end. He’s a matchup nightmare. Even if we want to consider that he’s technically listed as a tight end, Ertz should have absolutely no bearing on whether Pitts makes sense. He won’t be here beyond this season. And Goedert, while he is decent to good, can’t stay healthy. Not sure how you can call him a pro bowl caliber TE right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, nipples said: You’re too wrapped up in positions. Pitts has Kelce/Kittle type ability. He’s not just a traditional tight end. He’s a matchup nightmare. Even if we want to consider that he’s technically listed as a tight end, Ertz should have absolutely no bearing on whether Pitts makes sense. He won’t be here beyond this season. And Goedert, while he is decent to good, can’t stay healthy. Not sure how you can call him a pro bowl caliber TE right now. That is a lofty comparison. And it's wrong. Because those TEs can both block and run excellent routes. Pitts does neither well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 7 hours ago, nipples said: You’re too wrapped up in positions. Pitts has Kelce/Kittle type ability. He’s not just a traditional tight end. He’s a matchup nightmare. Even if we want to consider that he’s technically listed as a tight end, Ertz should have absolutely no bearing on whether Pitts makes sense. He won’t be here beyond this season. And Goedert, while he is decent to good, can’t stay healthy. Not sure how you can call him a pro bowl caliber TE right now. That's not the point. TE is a position that has little bearing on the development and success of a rebuilding roster, it is purely a luxury pick. We won 4 games last year not because of terrible luck, but because of an awful cap situation and a legitimate 4-win talent roster. You said he is only technically listed as TE, implying he has a WR makeup. WR's are also a luxury pick. You never draft them with a high selection in the draft, with the only exception if you are a playoff team that has acquired a top 10 pick via trade. Maybe Pitts becomes a great TE, maybe he puts up alltime numbers... but that wont help us build a winning football team, like at all. Who are the best WR's taken in the top half of the first round over the last 20 years? Larry Fitzgerald - 1 SB, 2 NFCCG, 0 Rings Calvin Johnson - 0 SB, 0, NFCCG, 0 Rings Andre Johnson - O SB, 0 NFCCG, 0 Rings AJ Green - 0 SB, 0 NFCCG, 0 Rings Julio Jones - 1 SB, 2 NFCCG, 0 Rings Braylon Edwards - 0 SB, 0 NFCCG, 0 Rings Michael Crabtree - 1 SB, 1 NFCCG, 0 Rings There are a couple dozen busts in that timeframe too, but they just fuel the point. What does this list have in common? Every single team was bad when they drafted these WRs, teams with holes up and down the roster. The only exception maybe Atlanta, who went 10-6, traded a TON to move up and get Julio, and then went 13-3. But then they felt the brunt of the lost picks and proceeded to go 18-30 over the next 3 years. Who cares if he makes the hall of fame? His selection crippled his team. The rest of the teams on the list were the same, they needed foundation players and they picked only for luxury. Now let's look at TE's taken in the top half of the NFL draft first round last 20 years: 2019 TJ Hockenson 8th overall Lions - Still Young, but 0 playoff appearances, and trading Stafford for Goff isn't indicative that he'll have his heyday anytime soon. 2014 Eric Ebron 10th overall lions - He's had a nice career, but once again, drafted by a bad team who had holes everywhere, didnt contribute whatsoever to them winning. 2004 Kellen Winslow 6th Overall Browns - They needed Oline and Dline help BADLY. Kellen Winslow developed into a pro bowl player for Cleveland and had a nice career, spanning 5 700+ yard seasons. The team ended up actually worse after they picked him. That's literally it. There's no more. Teams don't do that, except for the 2 worst teams in NFL history. They know it's a bad idea, they know they'd be stunting their rebuild. You'll find some OJ Howards and Hayden Hursts at the bottom of the first, otherwise Good teams know not to take TE's that high. Here's another example: Lane Johnson. Lane Johnson was a huge boost to our Chip Kelly years, he was a pivotal piece in Nick's 27-2 season, as well as the back-to-back 10-6 years. When we drafted Carson Wentz, his rookie year ebbed and flowed by what Lane was able to do for him. Lane was instrumental in us winning the SB in 2017. Why would I bring up lane in a TE thread? Because he's the guy we chose to spend our last top 10 pick on. He's the guy we went to in the top 10 the year we drafted Ertz. Ertz had value in the second round. Despite Zach's great career here, even he would have been a wasted pick in the top 10. Oline, Dline, Quarterback, fix the second and third levels of the defense, then start thinking about offensive weapons. What if Pitts turns out to be great? What if he has a Jason Witten or Tony Gonzalez type career? Wouldn't that be amazing? A similar career to 2 guys who never even sniffed a super bowl. Kellen Winslow Sr, also never even made one. You can just go down the list of alltime TE's, It's the same story: If you were on a team that had an extraordinary Oline, Dline, alltime QB, you probably won. Gronk, Kelce, Sharpe. But does John Elway win 2 super bowls if he never had Shannon Sharpe? Probably. Shannon wasn't instrumental in either victory. Does Tom Brady still win Superbowls without Gronk? Bucs yes. 2018 Yes. 2014 maybe, 2016 if you remember Gronk didnt even play against the falcons. Gronk had a big day in 2017 agains us, they lost anyway. We don't have the Oline KC does, the Dline KC does, the defense KC does, especially the QB KC does to make Travis Kelce a SB champion. And the teams that did win with prolific TE's did it the right way. As we mentioned, SB champion Ertz was a second round pick, when we went Lane Johnson in the first. SB champion Kelce was a third round pick, when his team when Eric Fisher with their top 10 pick. Even the great Rob Gronkowski was a second round pick, when NE smartly took Devin Mccourty in the first. Being diligent in their rebuilds paid off in the long run. Would it be fun to have an alltime receiving yards TE this draft? Sure, if you have absolutely no consideration for winning football games with a broken roster. If that's what you're okay with, then you're making a great argument for it. TE's are good, but theyre good for built teams that can take advantage of them to win. if you're not on that level, they pale in impact to a better Oline, a better Dline. Who are our best Olineman? Kelce Johnson Brooks all on the wrongside of 30, and who's to say Kelce or Brooks are even still here in 2022. We may be looking at a complete overhaul of the line. Who are our best Dlineman? Again, Graham and Cox on the wrong side of 30. Graham made his first pro bowl last year, was outstanding in run defense. Cox was still his beast self, but as they get older what have we really got? Technically 4 good players to field a starting Dline, but we have only about half of a quality D line rotation. So again, we have 2 pro bowl caliber TE's already, and a 4-win talent roster. TE's are frosting, they make the cake that much better, but only after its done. You don't ever consider frosting when you're still mixing the batter. 6th overall? Welcome to the Browns. Maybe whoever picks Pitts with their top pick won't regret taking him, but he wont make a whole lot of difference in their roster building, one way or the other. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: That's not the point. TE is a position that has little bearing on the development and success of a rebuilding roster, it is purely a luxury pick. We won 4 games last year not because of terrible luck, but because of an awful cap situation and a legitimate 4-win talent roster. My favorite part is they keep bringing up the 2 best tight ends in the game when talking about Pitts and both of them were drafted even later then Ertz! So they want to spend a round 1 #6 pick on a guy that can be as good as a player that was taken in the 3rd round or the 5th round. Does not sound like good team building to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Was in no way down with picking a TE at #6, at #12 however, it's a lot more palatable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said: Was in no way down with picking a TE at #6, at #12 however, it's a lot more palatable. Agreed, and same goes for CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain F Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: So again, we have 2 pro bowl caliber TE's already. Ya, no. Goedert hasn't proven anything yet and is a long ways from being considered a pro bowl caliber player. Ertz best days are behind him. Coming off that dumpster fire of a season, I'd be surprised to see him ever reach pro bowl caliber play again. Our TE situation as of right now is a complete unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said: My favorite part is they keep bringing up the 2 best tight ends in the game when talking about Pitts and both of them were drafted even later then Ertz! So they want to spend a round 1 #6 pick on a guy that can be as good as a player that was taken in the 3rd round or the 5th round. Does not sound like good team building to me. Ok and Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round, so why use pick 6 on a QB right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain F Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, nipples said: Ok and Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round, so why use pick 6 on a QB right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 3 hours ago, nipples said: Ok and Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round, so why use pick 6 on a QB right? 2 hours ago, What The F said: Because it’s proven top pick QBs can immediately lead to winning, unlike TEs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain F Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 I'm holding out hope. I think this could still happen... either by a fall, or eagles trading up to 9 when 5 qbs go in top 8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2rock Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 28 minutes ago, What The F said: I'm holding out hope. I think this could still happen... either by a fall, or eagles trading up to 9 when 5 qbs go in top 8... If he gets past Atlanta and Miami then yes I could see this happening as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphagrand Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, What The F said: I'm holding out hope. I think this could still happen... either by a fall, or eagles trading up to 9 when 5 qbs go in top 8... The road map to Pitts being available is essentially something like: Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance, Sewell, Chase, Smith, Waddle, Jones, Surtain ... then the Giants are on the clock at #11 and go OL/DL/Parsons Not likely but not impossible. Every team has its own needs and own board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie_Nick Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 If Pitts falls to us (he wont) and we dont take him, Howie should be fired on the spot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Aussie_Nick said: If Pitts falls to us (he wont) and we dont take him, Howie should be fired on the spot Howie should have been fired for many different things. The accumulation of them all should have had him fired. And yet he hasn't. He's bulletproof at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philafan4o8 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:35 AM, time2rock said: If he gets past Atlanta and Miami then yes I could see this happening as well. I don’t see it. It is hard for me to believe the Eagles would trade up for TE or WR. History tells us they usually trade up for lineman so I can see this happen if Sewell starts to fall. But even that is a long shot. my gut feeling is the eagles stay at 12. No way they trade out of 6 if they dont have targets at 12. They have to know when moving down to 12 there is No guarantee you can trade back into top 10. If there is any movement it is the Eagles trading up or down from 37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2rock Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, philafan4o8 said: I don’t see it. It is hard for me to believe the Eagles would trade up for TE or WR. History tells us they usually trade up for lineman so I can see this happen if Sewell starts to fall. But even that is a long shot. my gut feeling is the eagles stay at 12. No way they trade out of 6 if they dont have targets at 12. They have to know when moving down to 12 there is No guarantee you can trade back into top 10. If there is any movement it is the Eagles trading up or down from 37. I wasn't suggesting they trade up for Pitts. I must admit I missed the part about trading up to 9 ... my response was thinking he falls to 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philafan4o8 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, time2rock said: I wasn't suggesting they trade up for Pitts. I must admit I missed the part about trading up to 9 ... my response was thinking he falls to 12. It’s a long shot but if he does then draft him lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikepargo Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, time2rock said: I wasn't suggesting they trade up for Pitts. I must admit I missed the part about trading up to 9 ... my response was thinking he falls to 12. I don't want any trade-ups for anybody. But yeah... If he's there, then take him. (It won't happen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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