4 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

That would be one of the worst possible case scenarios. Paye is a 2nd round talent. He’s incredibly overrated even being considered an early 1st rounder. If you watch MI games you will see he isn’t anything that you would pay a premium for. Sorry for the rant lol.

I thought Surtain was more Ramsey with his size and speed

The scouting reports I have heard is that Surtain is more of a technician like Jones while Horn is more an aggressive corner like Ramsey.  If you pull up the combine numbers and height/arms etc, Horn is almost exactly like Ramsey.  

Surtain Jr comp is an Asomugha type player IMO 

4 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

I can’t believe the 49ers would be stupid enough to move up to 3 for Mac Jones. He might have a higher floor than Lance, but Lance’s, Wilson’s, and Fields’s ceiling is much higher.  Jones isn’t even that much of an upgrade over Jimmy G, if at all. 

I disagree - I think it's completely the opposite. Jones has the lowest floor and the highest ceiling. He has "enough" arm talent and "enough" pocket mobility. His asset / skill set is cerebral, ball placement and timing. So he's either going to be the second coming of Montana/Brady or JAG.

Offer topic

 

I did this before I read about Horn vs Ramsey but here is Horn vs Chase 

6-0 3/4 feet vs 6-0 3/8 feet
205  vs 201 pounds 
4.39 vs 4.38 40
41.5 inch vs 41 inch vertical 
11 foot 1 vs 11 foot broad jump
19 reps vs 23 reps at 225
33 vs 30 3/4 inch arms

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Is rather go several other players than Paye.  But that's who I see Howie drafting. 

Yep.  I think Paye is the most likely pick.  

6 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Surtain Jr comp is an Asomugha type player IMO 

The nfls current constraints will not permit a CB to have the kind of impact prime Asomugha had.

 

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Yep.  I think Paye is the most likely pick.  

I think Howie goes corner.  I’d be fine with Horn or Surtain but prefer Horn

2 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I disagree - I think it's completely the opposite. Jones has the lowest floor and the highest ceiling. He has "enough" arm talent and "enough" pocket mobility. His asset / skill set is cerebral, ball placement and timing. So he's either going to be the second coming of Montana/Brady or JAG.

Don’t agree with this at all. Jones might be a JAG but his floor is still higher than a raw unknown like Lance. 

For those of you who say you play to win the game (amidst a disastrous season after clear elimination from contention)....think of how our draft capital situation could be different right now.

If we don’t beat a punchless NO team without a qb in their offense, we would have had Miami’s draft haul.  If we don’t tank against WTF, we are likely looking at the same player we are getting at 12 and no extra first round pick next year.

 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The nfls current constraints will not permit a CB to have the kind of impact prime Asomugha had.

Agreed. But they are similar in both strengths are press man and you would want avoid them playing primarily zone or off coverage. Both have similar size also. 

I think it’s a mistake to look at QBs as floor/ceiling players.  It’s a completely different process than drafting position players.

Every single qb drafted has an extremely low floor.  Put them in the wrong offense with the wrong protection, wrong weapons, a bad attitude seeps in, and you have a total bust. Give them some good pieces and they may still not quite catch the wave.

And it’s a position where you just can’t measure anything.  40 irrelevant.  Measured velocity at the combine irrelevant.  Even college stats mostly irrelevant with the gimmicky schemes and huge talent gaps.  When physical talents like Brady/Montana/Brees/Warner are the best of all time, it’s also hard to slap a ceiling on ANYONE. 
 

Listening to Jodie Mac, he has some draft guy on, (Rick Serritella of the nfl draft bible)  I'll get his name shortly. He's saying Jamin Davis absolutely lit it up and could go as high as 10 to the cowboys now. Seems high, but maybe he could be a trade back option. DJ did move him up to 25 on his latest top 50 and he raves about him 

2 hours ago, eagle45 said:

For those of you who say you play to win the game (amidst a disastrous season after clear elimination from contention)....think of how our draft capital situation could be different right now.

If we don’t beat a punchless NO team without a qb in their offense, we would have had Miami’s draft haul.  If we don’t tank against WTF, we are likely looking at the same player we are getting at 12 and no extra first round pick next year.

 

Football is different than other sports, particularly basketball. I can't give you a specific reason - I just know it's true. Tanking in football sends the wrong message to your current roster and potential FAs. Winning is contagious - and so is losing - it's a culture that permeates through the entire organization and fanbase. 

Here you go, forego maybe Waddle, Pitts, Surtain and Horn. Trade 12 to CHI for 20 and 2022 1st, should be a good one. At 20 Moehrig or Bateman. Trade back any further and with real teams we would need more, at least 2021 3rd or 2022 2nd. Collins or Newhouse back there

2 hours ago, Nivraga said:

Football is different than other sports, particularly basketball. I can't give you a specific reason - I just know it's true. Tanking in football sends the wrong message to your current roster and potential FAs. Winning is contagious - and so is losing - it's a culture that permeates through the entire organization and fanbase. 

Having a 5 win season instead of a 3 win season doesn't provide a winning culture. 

15 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The simple answer is: BPA.  There is literally no position on the team that isnt in need of upgrades and has any type of long term plan in place, not one.

 

So, the "simple" answer is to rate all prospects according to how they fit the new offensive/defensive systems and merely pick the highest rated one when the time comes, or better yet, take the best offer on the table to move back a bit and roll some more picks to the 2022 draft.

I guess I wouldn't go punter or kicker in the first round but yeah, if you can't pick bpa this year turn in your keys to the facility

15 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

There's a fat timer? Finally!!!!!!!! 

14 hours ago, austinfan said:

I think the problem started when AR first pushed for personnel power, then went "south" when his son died, he's the one who became incoherent (moving from a WCO ball control offense to a quick strike offense lead by DeSean). Then they got infatuated with Chip, and we know where that went. Pederson was the fix for Chip, and it worked as long as Reich was there, going back to the WCO roots (involving backs in the passing game, ball control, etc). Reich leaves and Doug doesn't want a strong OC, then falls in love with the 4 deep vertical scheme.

Sirianni as a Reich discipline brings the Eagle full circle, while there are a number of other concepts he picked up, at heart Reich is similar to early AR, ball control (Reich runs a bit more), short passing game, emphasis on OL and pass protection. So after being tempted by a strumpet, and a good girl who went bad, Howie is returning to the "girl next door."

On defense, Gannon continues the 4-3 tradition, but with some differences from JJ and Schwartz. Still dependent on the DL, more emphasis on LBs (like JJ), cover 2 with cover 1 and 3 concepts, and some Zimmer twists. So while a change, there's more continuity the past two decades on this side of the ball.

Some of A/Rs players and Chips players helped us win a Super Bowl. Who are you going to blame for the last couple of drafts where player talent is pretty non- existent?

13 hours ago, Utebird said:

I want a super Owl, sounds cool!

Whooooo, whooooo, whoooooo, are you kidding?

13 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Where have you seen that happen?   Normally a HC gets a few years to figure it out... and he might change an assistant along the way, but if he fails to build something that lasts in the first 3 or 4 years, he's gone and so is almost all of the staff.   The trouble here is that Howie was as responsible for this mess as anyone else, yet everyone else is gone, but he stays on.  The salary cap situation is 100% his fault.  The fact that the cupboard is completely devoid of young talent again falls on him.  

 

"With great power comes great responsibility."   Well, in Howie's case, with that power comes a scapegoat that he can point to and blame all his troubles on that.

 

It's not 100% on Howie Pederson coached like he wanted to be fired, and Carson played like he was still concussed.

13 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Then defense all day.  

I can honestly say just get some talent Howie on any side of the ball

11 hours ago, downundermike said:

We all want Horn, so no doubt Dallas selects him.

I'll bet you a dozen donuts that even if he's still there and we're all screaming at the t.v. to pick him.....................................he doesn't.

10 hours ago, CaliEagle said:

LSU is producing WRs.  It's like a WR Factory.  But, Howie doesn't like WR factories.  

Howie likes anything named "factory"

No NFL HC is going to tell his team go out and play to lose , and we as coaches will coach to lose . It’s just not going to happen  , tanking implies , losing on purpose.

and  if a player bought into tanking , I don’t want him on my team .

38 minutes ago, greend said:

Howie likes anything named "factory"

Including toy. Must be where he gets his draft board from.

1 hour ago, greend said:

It's not 100% on Howie Pederson coached like he wanted to be fired, and Carson played like he was still concussed.

Pederson was in no way responsible for the salary cap.  Nor was Carson Wentz.  The salary cap situation was all Howie's doing.