8 minutes ago, RLC said:

Slater would give the Eagles optionality as he can be both an OT and an OG like Zack Martin. 

We don’t need another rookie to overwhelm with multiple positions.  We need someone to come in, grab a spot in the lineup, and own it.  

1 hour ago, Saltpeter said:

Vera-Tucker at 12 would be worse than the Danny Watkins pick. The only path for that pick to be a success is that Vera-Tucker is a top 5 guard in the NFL for 10 years. Even then, the value is still iffy.

I hear you, you don't like Tucker at 12. I don't think many would. But Watkins was a 26 year old firefighter. Tucker is a 21 year old top o-line prospect who was a 4 star recruit out of HS. There's a pretty big difference. I don't want him at 12. Just saying he could be a trade back option. This team has so many areas of need there's so many different ways they can go without one being the 100% correct answer. Though this team seems to F up even easy type choices so I have no confidence 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

We don’t need another rookie to overwhelm with multiple positions.  We need someone to come in, grab a spot in the lineup, and own it.  

Or Howie using it as an excuse as to why his second round pick WR never sees the field. Ever. 

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

I hear you, you don't like Tucker at 12. I don't think many would. But Watkins was a 26 year old firefighter. Tucker is a 21 year old top o-line prospect who was a 4 star recruit out of HS. There's a pretty big difference. I don't want him at 12. Just saying he could be a trade back option. This team has so many areas of need there's so many different ways they can go without one being the 100% correct answer. Though this team seems to F up even easy type choices so I have no confidence 

I agree with you. If the board breaks really badly for them, I am perfectly with them moving back a few spots and taking Vera-Tucker or Paye. I just wouldn't take them over Surtain, Horn, Waddle, Smith, or Slater and I don't think they are good value at 12. If you are pocketing a third 3rd rounder OR a 2 next year and taking them at say 15-17 then it's a different story.

9 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

I agree with you. If the board breaks really badly for them, I am perfectly with them moving back a few spots and taking Vera-Tucker or Paye. I just wouldn't take them over Surtain, Horn, Waddle, Smith, or Slater and I don't think they are good value at 12. If you are pocketing a third 3rd rounder OR a 2 next year and taking them at say 15-17 then it's a different story.

I’m actually fine just pushing all our picks back for future picks for the foreseeable future so that hopefully Howie gets fired by then and our new GM can have like 13 first round picks in 2024

If I was a betting man, I’d bet every penny I have that Howie is gonna pass on every player that makes sense, and reaches for a player that’s seen in the value of 17-24. And then the draft analysts will go... "ok.. I had him graded a little later.. but not a bad player. Has some upside..” 

Howie’s job won’t be in jeopardy until/if/when the jury passes negative judgement on his glut of 2022 picks.

He’ll see through that investment.  If that goes well, it’s a moot point.  If that fails, Lurie will sacrifice Howie to save himself.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Howie’s job won’t be in jeopardy until/if/when the jury passes negative judgement on his glut of 2022 picks.

He’ll see through that investment.  If that goes well, it’s a moot point.  If that fails, Lurie will sacrifice Howie to save himself.

I’m worried that by then, the tales of Lurie’s overwhelming "influence” in personnel decisions will cause no one to want to work here and we’ll have to hire Mike McCarthy and whoever the Mike McCarthy of GMs is... which might be Howie.. so we might just end up rehiring him. 

1 minute ago, blindside said:

I’m worried that by then, the tales of Lurie’s overwhelming "influence” in personnel decisions will cause no one to want to work here and we’ll have to hire Mike McCarthy and whoever the Mike McCarthy of GMs is... which might be Howie.. so we might just end up rehiring him. 

I seldom agree with Afan...but Afan, of all people, said that Lurie is likely embarrassed by the stories of his failed meddling and may back off.  

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I seldom agree with Afan...but Afan, of all people, said that Lurie is likely embarrassed by the stories of his failed meddling and may back off.  

I hope so. Hopefully Howie is embarrassed by his chronic misuse of resources and over drafting reaches and will start making more consensus value picks. A boy can dream 

2 hours ago, eagle45 said:

As WR is the most frequently and heavily scrutinized position in Philly, I wanted to just circle back and review/debate what we have.  I usually see things very differently than most, so I expect some entertaining dissent.  In rank order of my level of interest:

1. Jalen Reagor.  I am not ashamed to say I liked this pick.  Didn't like the value, but I was happy with the pick.  His disappointing combine was sort of a harbinger of things to come, as I was very disappointed with both his game speed and production as a rookie.  He just didn't seem fast or quick and ran sluggish routes.  Just a really disappointing year.  But...I still really do like his game film from college.  He really did look like he was full speed while everyone else was in slow motion.  The Desean Jackson comps didn't seem so crazy.  I hate excuses, but perhaps his long string of injuries as a rookie did slow him down.  I am still hopeful and I still believe in his potential, for now.  He still might have that raw, rare explosion and speed talent that so many teams covet in WRs.  We'll see.  But for now, I want him to be a big part of the plans moving forward.  He just needs to do a better job getting open and getting deep.

Where he should play:  When I was really high on Reagor, I wanted him as an X.  He has a sturdy frame...and if he can move the way his college tape suggests and run all the routes, then he might be able to do more high volume damage as an X.  If you want to simplify things for him, then it would be the slot or Z.

2. Quez Watkins.  Yep.  E45 and his speed.  It's not about the 40.  I get that he's raw.  In college, he ran mostly crossing routes that were just rudimentary sprints.  He needs to learn the route tree.  He's still only 22.  He has unteachable, elite linear deep speed AND excellent short area quicks/footwork (just watch that TD against AZ where he juked 2 tackles, spun, and then outran the whole defense).  There are only so many guys in the NFL that have the sheer movement talent to make that play.  If they can teach him to run routes, there may be something to work with here.  I hope his rawness doesn't allow him to fall through the cracks with a young coaching staff that might favor safer, more polished options.

Where he should play: Seems like a prototypical Z.  Depending on where Reagor settles and what additions are made, the slot may be his best opportunity.  His quickness will serve him well there, although most slot WRs have a little bulk/physicality to them.

3. Fulgham.  You all know my opinion of Fulgham.  I truly think he's a regular season Nasty Nate deserving of his own award in his name.  I think he's just bad and never expect him to ascend to that fluke 4 game stretch again.  Best case scenario is that he's a slower Jordan Matthews.  If we do invest in more speed that lacks size at the WR position, I am interested in seeing Fulgham continue to develop as a situational physical option for certain matchups.  But we are going to have problems if they try to develop him as an every down player.

Where he should play: X/slot.

4. Hightower.  I may like speed, but sometimes fast WR's can suck too.  Hightower will be a raw, 25 year old 2nd year player when the season starts.  His deep speed is good, not rare.  His style of play resembles Todd Pinkston with worse hands.  He's a rail.  He can get deep when you give him a runway, but he really doesn't have much lateral agility to actually generate separation on much besides go-routes.  He also seems like an Agholor-esque deer in headlights when tracking deep balls too.  And since the deep ball is all he's really physically suited for, that's a huge problem.  He'll have 1-2 "told you so" 60 yard TD's per year...and he'll be a huge liability the rest of the time.

Where he should play: 1-dimensional backup Z.

5. Ward.  Not much to say here; he's already been debated to death.  If he is top 2 (or top 1, as it may be) in receptions again, the Eagles should probably be contracted into the Canadian Football League.  But their inability to get talent in the lineup in this position will continue to leave Ward deserving of targets.  He stands in the right place, runs the right routes, and has good hands.  He combines small stature with horrible movement talent, so that's why his typical role is to catch 6 yard passes on 3rd and 10.  But he'll be a safety valve in the slot if we can't find anyone better.

Where he should play: slot.

Unranked:

JJAW.  

I agree with all of this.  Shame they can't get over themselves and come to voluntary minicamp to work on all of this stuff to improve.  

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Howie’s job won’t be in jeopardy until/if/when the jury passes negative judgement on his glut of 2022 picks.

He’ll see through that investment.  If that goes well, it’s a moot point.  If that fails, Lurie will sacrifice Howie to save himself.

If we have a 6 win season, with little to no contribution from this upcoming draft class, I think another GM will be making the picks next year.

That's why, as I said before, I think Howie shies away from WR in the first round. Of all the potential positions he might look to upgrade, the success of WRs is the most transparent. If he has another Reagor/Jefferson situation play out next year, I can't see him keeping his job. However, OLine, CB, and LB are all positions where their success, relative to other players, is much more obfuscated. 

2 hours ago, Saltpeter said:

Classic overthink. Don't wanna hear about the 1st round OL success rate compared to WR or CB. You don't pass up a potential star at WR or CB for a damn guard. Would be next level stupid.

Sure you do, especially one that can just as easily play tackle and center as well. 

OL as boring as it is will never be seen as bad value, at least to me. A strong OL can do a lot for a team, especially when we have so many question marks on our own.

35 minutes ago, blindside said:

If I was a betting man, I’d bet every penny I have that Howie is gonna pass on every player that makes sense, and reaches for a player that’s seen in the value of 17-24. And then the draft analysts will go... "ok.. I had him graded a little later.. but not a bad player. Has some upside..” 

So, if Horn, Surtain, Sewell, Slater, Waddle, Pitts, Chase, plus 4 QBs are gone and the Eagles are on the clock and no suitable trade back is available, who is the pick?  I suppose the two options that won't make people lose their minds are Parsons and Smith (4for4 notwithstanding) I go for Parsons.

12 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

So, if Horn, Surtain, Sewell, Slater, Waddle, Pitts, Chase, plus 4 QBs are gone and the Eagles are on the clock and no suitable trade back is available, who is the pick?  I suppose the two options that won't make people lose their minds are Parsons and Smith (4for4 notwithstanding) I go for Parsons.

For me? Smith. I can't see the front office going LB at 12

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

For me? Smith. I can't see the front office going LB at 12

Neither. Both are too solid of options. They have to reach

I agree , build team first then get a QB

 

"I’ve seen a lot of teams that have had things in place then drafted their quarterback next year. This could be one of those situations where we put all the other pieces in place and then a year or two from now the right guy is there and we can make that move," Rivera said. 

1 minute ago, greendestiny27 said:

For me? Smith. I can't see the front office going LB at 12

I think Howie thing to do there is Paye.

Howie isn't going anywhere

33 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

If we have a 6 win season, with little to no contribution from this upcoming draft class, I think another GM will be making the picks next year.

That's why, as I said before, I think Howie shies away from WR in the first round. Of all the potential positions he might look to upgrade, the success of WRs is the most transparent. If he has another Reagor/Jefferson situation play out next year, I can't see him keeping his job. However, OLine, CB, and LB are all positions where their success, relative to other players, is much more obfuscated. 

If that’s the case, it will be interesting to see how it impacts the draft.

The safest immediate contributor in a draft is an interior OL with a 1st round grade.  They don’t have to rely on other players much to produce and hang in the starting lineup.

So if you want to hang your hat on something to keep your job in a year, that’s the safest route.

However, Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks are theoretically entrenched in the starting lineup (for however briefly their health holds up).  
 

So drafting an IOL to back up and red shirt a year is a pretty lousy look in your make or break swing for the fences job saving draft.

That leaves CB.  Maddox is horrible.  A first round pick can waltz into the starting lineup and stay there all year long.  No need to worry about a wr who might put up bad stats, an OL who might not play, or a DE who might get you 2 sacks.  Whatever CB they draft will start for 16 games (if healthy), unchallenged.  
 

Thats Howie’s safest bet to tell everyone he scored a hit with his first round pick after year 1.

If we’re going OL early much prefer Trey Smith in day 2.  Dude’s a beast 

 

4 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

I agree , build team first then get a QB

 

"I’ve seen a lot of teams that have had things in place then drafted their quarterback next year. This could be one of those situations where we put all the other pieces in place and then a year or two from now the right guy is there and we can make that move," Rivera said. 

He's building a nice team that'll be a problem for us when we're finally competing 

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

If that’s the case, it will be interesting to see how it impacts the draft.

The safest immediate contributor in a draft is an interior OL with a 1st round grade.  They don’t have to rely on other players much to produce and hang in the starting lineup.

So if you want to hang your hat on something to keep your job in a year, that’s the safest route.

However, Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks are theoretically entrenched in the starting lineup (for however briefly their health holds up).  
 

So drafting an IOL to back up and red shirt a year is a pretty lousy look in your make or break swing for the fences job saving draft.

That leaves CB.  Maddox is horrible.  A first round pick can waltz into the starting lineup and stay there all year long.  No need to worry about a wr who might put up bad stats, an OL who might not play, or a DE who might get you 2 sacks.  Whatever CB they draft will start for 16 games (if healthy), unchallenged.  
 

Thats Howie’s safest bet to tell everyone he scored a hit with his first round pick after year 1.

I agree, but I'll add that Parsons would fit too. Even bad LBs make plays. Also, if a LB is exposed as being a liability in a certain aspect, it's always easy to deflect blame to other parts of the defense. 

19 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

I think Howie thing to do there is Paye.

Paye is the most Howie pick.  CB offers the best chance for Howie to quickly turn around and say he made a good pick.

22 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

For me? Smith. I can't see the front office going LB at 12

Would you take Smith or think the Eagles would pick Smith?  Anybody else in play at 12?  If the QB available is Lance do you take him?