24 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Just because they helped him with his initial staff doesn’t mean after winning the SB they would continue to have that same say. 

You would think he would be aware of the situation I.E. What his responsibilities are, what control and power he has, when he agreed to the job. If he then wished to renegotiate his power after a few years and lost that negotiation, I have to side with Jeff on this one.  

1 minute ago, greend said:

 

Not saying you do, but a lot of people do. I quoted Aikman's statement form the Carson Wenz thread

I feel like aikman used his wording carefully to protect doug in case it blew up and went entirely wrong then doug could say aikman misinterpreted what his belief was. But that’s my own belief on it. I’m guessing doug probably alluded to it strongly or even said it. 

3 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Does it really matter if Doug was fired because he wanted Hurts or if he wanted Press. Doug sucked in the last 3 years. He deserved to be fired. Plain and simple. If it didnt happen this year it was going to happen next year and just one year longer we wasted. 

Not really but gives you more context as to the issues surrounding why he needed to go. I personally like the whole story not just fractions. Don’t disagree Hes regressed every year since the SB. I’ve been one of the most critical. However i do like to know how he was thinking and how the organization is thinking. That’s definitely important. It gives you insight on the eagles organizationally 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I feel like aikman used his wording carefully to protect doug in case it blew up and went entirely wrong then doug could say aikman misinterpreted what his belief was. But that’s my own belief on it. I’m guessing doug probably alluded to it strongly or even said it. 

Or didn't say it at all. Think about it, all the press conferences were all about fixing Wentz and the relationship at the end of the year.

1 minute ago, DeathByEagle said:

Does it really matter if Doug was fired because he wanted Hurts or if he wanted Press. Doug sucked in the last 3 years. He deserved to be fired. Plain and simple. If it didnt happen this year it was going to happen next year and just one year longer we wasted. 

After his game plans, Play calling and insistence in playing JP over Mailata, and Alshon over Fulgham,  his 55 passes to 9 runs when your oline is struggling and you have inexperienced wr's was all I needed to see, it was time for him to go. He was doing more damage to this team then he was helping. Keeping him one more year would have just wasted the upcoming year and may have completely sabotaged Wentz here. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not really but gives you more context as to the issues surrounding why he needed to go. I personally like the whole story not just fractions. Don’t disagree Hes regressed every year since the SB. I’ve been one of the most critical. However i do like to know how he was thinking and how the organization is thinking. That’s definitely important. It gives you insight on the eagles organizationally 

I like my insight to focus on whats next to make this team great again. 

8 minutes ago, greend said:

Or didn't say it at all. Think about it, all the press conferences were all about fixing Wentz and the relationship at the end of the year.

Eh i tend to think doug says a lot of things cause he trusts people. I think for sure favre he said things too cause he trusts someone like him who’s considered a good friend. However those people air things out cause they have nothing to lose and trying to back him up. Also could be doug was doing it as he thought he was going to be back and was being pushed around. Then he got fed up when the eagles pushed him more 

7 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

I like my insight to focus on whats next to make this team great again. 

Well you aren’t going to get that unless you know how the eagles are thinking at moment and the direction they want to go which was obviously counter to Doug (if the report from favre and aikman is true) which they didn’t think would make them great again. So that’s pretty big insight (again if true) on how the intend to be great again is by going with wentz as it’s a huge financial decision 

2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Don't think the exact details came out but it was a sprain of something. They wanted him to play the last game but he wasn't ready.

That could mean almost anything! lol 

3 hours ago, aptosbird said:

yup...AR and his infamous binder...some guy who has been a sponge and has had access to an array of knowledge and resources quietly crafting a vision and a plan just waiting for a chance to show someone. I would be talking to as many as possible....

PressTaylor has that sort of catalog of plays. 

I honestly can’t say I’m excited about or worried about either of these candidates. Just don’t care. That’s why I say just let Duce man the ship for two seasons. 

20 minutes ago, RLC said:

Doug wanting to move forward with Jalen Hurts, but also wanting to promote Press Taylor as OC, makes so little sense.

Carson wasn’t responding to his coaching. Had "too many voices”. I feel bad for Doug he didnt get fair shake from the FO and apparently lose a power struggle to Carson. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Possible theory. I also kind of think doug and wentz really didn’t see eye to eye even before this year. I think wentz and doug dealt with it better but when wentz played poorly it boiled over to the point where caplan says they didn’t even talk to each other or very rarely. I find it curious to see how wentz feels if what aikman said about lurie keeping him cause of the financials. That’s not exactly ringing endorsement that he could return to prominence as the reason he wanted to keep him. 

I usually try to look at the most practical way forward.  I said quite awhile ago that Lurie’s biggest commitment was to Wentz, not Doug.  I also believe in following a path once committed to it.  The Eagles chose to travel the Wentz path; they made a commitment in that direction — I’m not talking about the money, or the actual person — but that path.

I might feel differently if Hurts had come in and done what Wentz did in the last 4 games of 2019 — 4-0 record, 67.6% comp, 7 TD, 0 INT to carry an offense of scrubs into the playoffs, but we just didn’t get that out of Hurts.  I don’t think Hurts is capable of that level of play and doesn’t possess that upside, which to me means he’s not a viable long term option at QB 

Just now, jwill2420 said:

Carson wasn’t responding to his coaching. Had "too many voices”. I feel bad for Doug he didnt get fair shake from the FO and apparently lose a power struggle to Carson. 

Unfortunately coaches do though don't they. The coaches aren't costing the organisation or the owner a gazillion dollars. 

1 minute ago, jwill2420 said:

Carson wasn’t responding to his coaching. Had "too many voices”. I feel bad for Doug he didnt get fair shake from the FO and apparently lose a power struggle to Carson. 

I’d feel worse for doug if i believe he wanted to really still be here. I think with the list of coaches to fix the eagles he came up with told me he didn’t care if he was here or not. The fact he was going to hire Cory undlin to be a DC next year when the lions secondary was ranked 30th in the league and fired from Philadelphia previously is flat out stupid or calculated on his part. 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

I usually try to look at the most practical way forward.  I said quite awhile ago that Lurie’s biggest commitment was to Wentz, not Doug.  I also believe in following a path once committed to it.  The Eagles chose to travel the Wentz path; they made a commitment in that direction — I’m not talking about the money, or the actual person — but that path.

I might feel differently if Hurts had come in and done what Wentz did in the last 4 games of 2019 — 4-0 record, 67.6% comp, 7 TD, 0 INT to carry an offense of scrubs into the playoffs, but we just didn’t get that out of Hurts.  I don’t think Hurts is capable of that level of play and doesn’t possess that upside, which to me means he’s not a viable long term option at QB 

I think jury is still too soon on hurts. But we disagree with why they made that pick in the second round. My belief is I think the eagles vision was always we are with Carson through 2021. If at the end of 2021 he’s what he was early 2019 Carson then they’d have hurts groomed for two years to be ready to take over  and see what he could do while moving on from wentz. 

Nobody should feel bad for Doug. His inability to find quality assistant coaches and probably even more importantly, manage them, was his ultimate undoing. In the end with his job on the line his solution was Press Taylor, Matt Burke, and Cory Undlin. Think on that.

1 hour ago, RLC said:

We won a Super Bowl using analytics. 

Yes, the Eagles won a Super Bowl while using analytics.  I think it would be safe to say that they did not win the Super Bowl because they used analytics.  They won the Super Bowl because they made plays while using the analytics to decide whether or not to go for it on 4th down here or there.   A terrible team going for it on 4th down is just as unlikely to have success on a 4th down conversion as they are on a 3rd down conversion.  If you recall, the Eagles were very good on 3rd down conversions that year, also very good in the red zone that year, also very good at RUNNING THE FOOTBALL that year.  So... when you have a good offense, and you give that good offense more opportunities to succeed, you will find success more often.  When you have a BAD football, giving them more opportunities just gives them more opportunities to fail.  

 

In 2020, the Eagles were 28th in 3rd down conversions 37% (strangely 3rd down conversions were very high this year compared to other years).   Eagles were 2nd in 3rd down conversions in 2017 - 44.7%.  (Eagles were 4th in 3rd down conversions in 2019 at 44.6% as well.)

Eagles were 26th in the NFL in 2020 in 4th down conversion rate... 42.8%.  In 2017, they were 3rd in the NFL at a shade under 69%.   

 

The difference wasn't the analytics versus no analytics, the difference was success rate versus failure rate.   Eagles were better on 3rd and 4th down in 2017, because they were just better in 2017 (top 5 in just about all the important categories).    The Eagles were worse on 3rd and 4th down in 2020, because they were just horrible in 2020 (bottom 5ish in just about all the important categories).   

 

Its not about analytics... it's about efficiency.  When the team is efficient and running good plays more than bad plays, going for it on 4th down more often will pay off.   When the team is inefficient and running bad plays more often than good plays, going for it on 4th down more often will hurt the team in the long run.   Simple math.  

8 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I honestly can’t say I’m excited about or worried about either of these candidates. Just don’t care. That’s why I say just let Duce man the ship for two seasons. 

Why? What has Duce done since being a RB coach? Has his rotations of RBs been so vital to the Eagles offense? Just because the players like him doesn’t mean anything they were Gaga for Doug at one point too and hat didn’t end well. 

2 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

Many thought is was a boring hire in terms of offense but stabilizing as he had been a head coach and would mentor Doug in a way.

Reich had never been a HC, but was a friend of Doug's from when they played together.  Schwartz was the stabilizing, former HC hire.

24 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’m not blame wentz for doug being gone. Doug is gone cause he didn’t want to be here anymore and he wanted his voice heard and not be pushed around by howie and lurie. The underlining reasons are just other issues that stem from the bigger issue that he wanted to have more power and be able to make his choices and decisions. Lurie and howie were like nah 

Careful the way how to mention Carson round’ here. It’s a slippery slope. 

1 minute ago, T-1000 said:

Nobody should feel bad for Doug. His inability to find quality assistant coaches and probably even more importantly, manage them, was his ultimate undoing. In the end with his job on the line his solution was Press Taylor, Matt Burke, and Cory Undlin. Think on that.

Yup. It was either he is dumb enough to believe that was a good solution they’d accept or it was calculated. Makes more sense it was calculated as reports have surfaced from early in the season he was ok being fired and then near his firing he was fired of being pushed around 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Maybe so. I think the idea is absurd that Doug saw how good he was with Reich, a strong OC, and decided he didn’t want that anymore. 

In 2016?  four year stretch ending in 2016, 442, 474, 377, 367.

Mathews, Sproles, Smallwood, Agholor, Matthews, Green-Beckham, Ertz, Burton, Celek

Peters, Barbre, Kelce, Brooks, Lane/Vaitai, Wisniewski, Seumalo.

The talent was similar to 2015, other than swapping Bradford for Wentz.

Not enough to fire Reich, not enough to inspire confidence either.

19 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

After his game plans, Play calling and insistence in playing JP over Mailata, and Alshon over Fulgham,  his 55 passes to 9 runs when your oline is struggling and you have inexperienced wr's was all I needed to see, it was time for him to go. He was doing more damage to this team then he was helping. Keeping him one more year would have just wasted the upcoming year and may have completely sabotaged Wentz here. 

To be fair, Peters outplayed Mailata for two games before he hurt his toe.

Fulgham was fading before he was benched for Jeffrey, the league got film on him and took away the wide open looks, and he lost focus and started dropping balls. There's a reason he was available on waivers, supposedly bad practice habits, struggles with press coverage and not a consistent route runner.

On the other hand, his handling of Wentz was horrendous and his play calling left a lot to be desired.

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d feel worse for doug if i believe he wanted to really still be here. I think with the list of coaches to fix the eagles he came up with told me he didn’t care if he was here or not. The fact he was going to hire Cory undlin to be a DC next year when the lions secondary was ranked 30th in the league and fired from Philadelphia previously is flat out stupid or calculated on his part. 

I think he and again it’s just my opinion that Doug wanted out. Howie is a veteran of war after his disputes with Andy Reid and who was drafting players then Out dueling Chip in a battle to the death and Doug decided to bow out gracefully. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Frankly I’m not sure either gets you back there without the right coaching and players out in place which the eagles hve failed on the players aspect in a ton of ways. 

But if you gave me the choice... I'd roll with Hurts and start a true rebuild. If Hurts isn't the answer (and I don't think he is) then at least he's cheap. I don't think Wentz is the answer either and he's certainly not cheap. 

And FWIW I think Wentz absolutely is more likely to play at a decent level. But that contract is just a no no.