1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

I like him. No more wco and a real interest in the run/play action

Listening to a bunch of podcasts he also worked his way up with the Titans and has done a lot of things on that football team. He’s learned almost every aspect of the game with different positions that he worked moving his way up to where he got.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I doubt anyone in the NFL would have taken Brown over DeSean, both are fast, slight WRs but Brown was really inconsistent with a very low catch rate.

The fact that in hindsight he played much better in Buffalo before, surprise, he got injured, doesn't change the expectation - hindsight is always 20/20.

He was cheaper that off-season before he went to the ravens and was younger than wallace who they signed and more of a potential long term answer. He made pennies on the dollar to what you were paying desean the next year and younger. You could’ve signed him on the cheap the year he went to the ravens that offseason  

and John Brown was better with the ravens in 2018 then desean was at that stage of his career.

and if you wanna say no one, I mentioned it in 2018 and then again in 2019 as he and Robbie Anderson both were guys they should go after besides DeSean Jackson. So Dave spindaro. i Fing said it at that time. So there’s that. But please keep living in the delusional world where it was a good idea for a injury prone 33-year-old wide receiver to redo his contract and trade pics for him. Yes that is smart managing of draft capital and money. Only you would believe that’s true. 

10 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

The Titans offense is really good. I don't have a problem with it at all. I just don't think there's anything about it that is Smith's doing. And I'm not sure we have a Derrick Henry to make it work (or AJ Brown). So I agree with you there for sure. 

Their passing game is all play action. There is no drop back passing game. It's all predicated on teams over-committing to the run and sneaking AJ Brown behind the linebackers.

According to Player Profiler Tannehill’s completion percentage on play action was 33rd in the NFL, and Tannehill was 27th in deep ball completion percentage. 

10 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We weren't taking Metcalf due to injury concerns, and most of the NFL agreed. That wasn't talent evaluation, that was a medical gamble.

Jefferson over Reagor would not have moved the needle this year unless he could pass block as well as catch.

Chinn over Hurts would have meant Wentz starting 16 games and probably getting hurt with the punishment he was taking, so Chinn is so good he'd play both FS and CB and turn the defense into a top ten unit?

Even if Jefferson and Chinn worked out and we won 8 games, great, we lose in the first round and pick 19th. Wonderful.

Well, I can't argue with this tight logic... Metcalf was the only other option over JJAW, the one and ONLY other possibility.  And these 3 moves are the only ones that could be different... not literally the giant pile of mistakes from the end of the Super Bowl.

 

Please list the good moves Howie has been a part of since the trophy was put up.  I'm curious how long the list is.

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

According to Player Profiler Tannehill’s completion percentage on play action was 33rd in the NFL, and Tannehill was 27th in deep ball completion percentage. 

I'm guessing that's because when they go play action, they're not throwing the ball for 5 yards. They're going for a chunk play.

Most teams run PA and then throw a 5 yard pass to the TE in the flats off the boot.

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yep.  Trade for a guy at age 32, fully expecting that he'll get injured and then pay market value, even though he's under contract and you can get out from under that deal whenever you want, if you don't resign him.  Wait... I thought Howie hoarded draft picks?  Yet, here he trades a draft pick for a guy that was likely getting cut if Howie just held his water.   AND then he pays market value, as if he had been cut and he had to outbid other teams.   Stupid decisions.

Could have signed John Brown for the same price, and actually gotten production.  

 

They could’ve signed John Brown for pennies on the dollar in the 2018 off-season. The year he went to the ravens he was making very little  and they decided a 33-year-old Mike Wallace was better as answer then a guy you could take the upside risk at 27-28 years old and be a potential long term answer. Again another move by howie relying on a 33-year-old and not going with the younger player who still had potential upside when both were relatively cheap.

Then again he also could’ve just traded a higher pick and got Anderson who was a better fit for the offense then golden Tate and had him for two seasons and not even needed the desean trade. But of course Dave spindaro doesn’t want to talk about that

55 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I’m going to predict KC vs BAL, and GB vs NO in the conference championship games 

Bills vs Packers in the SB IMO

28 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

All Howie said was he wanted to get speed and that's why they picked Reagor. I don't think it was a Doug move

16 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Anderson wasn't available until the next season.

The John Brown who caught 38% and 43% of his throws in Arizona and Baltimore before he went to Buffalo? Then got injured his second season in Buffalo.

Oh... the Desean Jackson that's been paid about $500k per pass reception?   

Anderson was available as a free agent, and could have been had for the cost of Desean Jackson if they were SMART about the trade...  trade for Desean, and DON'T give him a new deal, you cut your loss after 2019, and can look for a new speed guy.

Of course, if speed was really the goal, then you draft McLaurin, not JJAW last year.   Except they wanted JJAW to replace Alshon... but then they turned around and restructured Alshon.  So, they make one move and then compound it by making a dumber move.  Trade for Desean, if you must, but don't give Desean a new deal.   Draft JJAW if you must, but then don't restructure the guy he was drafted to replace!  

 

See, the moves just don't add up to logic.  They add up to rudderless flailing.

14 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They try to trade for Robby Anderson two consecutive years.  Again great spin job by you. There’s proof they try to get Robbie Anderson and didn’t wanna pay the price but managed to overpay DeSean Jackson and his contract and then decided you know what we should trade for golden Tate instead even though we already had a slot receiver and that’s a Golden Tate was at this time of his career. Way to spin that Dave spindaro

And just pointing out John Brown when Joe Flacco was the quarterback was on pace to put up a 1200 yard season and then they went to Lamar Jackson and his numbers dropped considerably because Lamar Jackson can’t throw. Yes he got hurt this year but there was less of a chance John Brown would break down at 29 years old then DeSean Jackson at 34. Another great spin job save 

https://www.sny.tv/articles/eagles-wanted-to-make-a-deal-for-jets-wr-robby-anderson

Anderson on the Jets, 54.2% catch rate. Yes, he's fast but he was a UDFA for a reason.

Jets never traded him to anyone, which suggests they wanted too much for him. Probably b/c they didn't want to leave Darnold, who they were hoping to develop, out to dry.

It takes two to tango, the fact the Eagles tried for Anderson, then Tate says they were willing.

17 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

We have GPS tracking from college that showed Reagor was much faster than Jefferson. 

Yes, I've heard that.  I've seen the trackers.   And I heard from a lot of people that Jefferson was only a slot WR.   The Eagles missed the boat.  And ALL responsible for this mess should be gone.  Sadly, its only a fraction of them.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Oh... the Desean Jackson that's been paid about $500k per pass reception?   

Anderson was available as a free agent, and could have been had for the cost of Desean Jackson if they were SMART about the trade...  trade for Desean, and DON'T give him a new deal, you cut your loss after 2019, and can look for a new speed guy.

Of course, if speed was really the goal, then you draft McLaurin, not JJAW last year.   Except they wanted JJAW to replace Alshon... but then they turned around and restructured Alshon.  So, they make one move and then compound it by making a dumber move.  Trade for Desean, if you must, but don't give Desean a new deal.   Draft JJAW if you must, but then don't restructure the guy he was drafted to replace!  

 

See, the moves just don't add up to logic.  They add up to rudderless flailing.

Not only that Anderson was available for trade two consecutive years before he got the free agency. The Eagles just didn’t wanna pay the trade price even though they were dumb enough to the pay the price for golden Tate who wasn’t even a fit for the offense because they were running 12 personnel so much and they had Nelson Agholor who is also a slot receiver. You had a redundancy except a Golden Tate was better than Nelson Agholor and you had not enough good weapons on the outside on the perimeter

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Did I miss something?  Has Hurts had confirmed NFL success?   You must have been watching different games than me.

In a way, he kind of was a success. Let’s call it a start in that direction. Hear me out. None of us are going to pretend that he had a healthy OL.  Three fifths of the starters were gone.  By the last game, his left tackle was Pryor and his RT was Toth. Back about this time frame last year, some poster asked what we thought about Hurts as a backup QB. (Now like most of us, he was probably thinking fourth round or so, maybe late third.  But that is water under the bridge).   My response was no, he is a one look and run QB.  He has some accuracy but I was not sure he could go through progressions in reading the defense.  

Well, when he wasn’t running for his life, he did have some accuracy.  Leading WRs.  Don’t point to his completion rate.  How many of those were throwing away to avoid sacks, scrambles and drops.  Now his clock goes off a little early, although he has some escapability, which seemed to abandon Carson this year.   So he showed he can do what he did in college at an NFL level and maybe more. There is something to build on.  So, yeah, a bit of NFL success.

One thing I hated in Doug’s O was his spread the field horizontally at the same depth on so many plays.  I said it before, and I will say it again, they need some of Leach’s (or Harrell or Riley or a lot of other college coaches tiered sections.  Somewhere out there is an interview with Leach with either Harrell or Kingsbury as QB and you see how they, and Mahommes, can read so quickly.  The coach stacks the receivers so that the QB can see all of them with a couple quick looks.  Will help Carson and will help Hurts.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They could’ve signed John Brown for pennies on the dollar in the 2018 off-season. The year he went to the ravens he was making very little  and they decided a 33-year-old Mike Wallace was better as answer then a guy you could take the upside risk at 27-28 years old and be a potential long term answer. Again another move by howie relying on a 33-year-old and not going with the younger player who still had potential upside when both were relatively cheap.

Then again he also could’ve just traded a higher pick and got Anderson who was a better fit for the offense then golden Tate and had him for two seasons and not even needed the desean trade. But of course Dave spindaro doesn’t want to talk about that

Mike Wallace WAS a better option, a proven deep threat who had almost 800 yards and was NEVER injured in his 9 year career.

Again, hindsight is always 20/20.

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Reagor bulked up for the combine, then took off 5 lbs for his pro day, consensus is he's more explosive on film than Jefferson, Jefferson the more polished route runner.

40 times for WRs are a bit misleading in most cases except extremes, run a 4.3 and you're fast, run a 4.6 and you'd better have great routes and hands.

And Jefferson ran 4.43, with great routes and hands.   🤔

I was all for getting Anderson. Definitely would have been better to have Anderson than Jackson

13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I doubt anyone in the NFL would have taken Brown over DeSean, both are fast, slight WRs but Brown was really inconsistent with a very low catch rate.

The fact that in hindsight he played much better in Buffalo before, surprise, he got injured, doesn't change the expectation - hindsight is always 20/20.

hypocrite.

23 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The buck is supposed to stop with the guy in charge... Howie just passes the buck to whomever is closest.

I don't care if Pederson was flipping tables in the novacare war room for Reagor. Howie is the GM and makes the call. He selected Reagor. The blood/ink is on his hands and he's not getting off. 

Just now, austinfan said:

https://www.sny.tv/articles/eagles-wanted-to-make-a-deal-for-jets-wr-robby-anderson

Anderson on the Jets, 54.2% catch rate. Yes, he's fast but he was a UDFA for a reason.

Jets never traded him to anyone, which suggests they wanted too much for him. Probably b/c they didn't want to leave Darnold, who they were hoping to develop, out to dry.

It takes two to tango, the fact the Eagles tried for Anderson, then Tate says they were willing.

Yes you don’t think playing with one of the worst football teams in the league has something to do with that? Again more spin job. he went to Carolina where he had better quarterback and better coaching and thrived. Yes of course that could never of happened in Philadelphia.

no it says the Eagles made a stupid decision on Golden Tate when they were running high amount of 12 personnel and Golden Tate at that stage of his career if they actually did the scouting was a glorified slot receiver and not an outside wide receiver that they needed. They were too cheap to pay the price because Anderson would’ve fixed the issues they had on the outside for the better part of two years in 2018 and 2019. It could just be howie made a bunch of bad moves when the best move could’ve made was just paying the price for Anderson

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not only that Anderson was available for trade two consecutive years before he got the free agency. The Eagles just didn’t wanna pay the trade price even though they were dumb enough to the pay the price for golden Tate who wasn’t even a fit for the offense because they were running 12 personnel so much and they had Nelson Agholor who is also a slot receiver. You had a redundancy except a Golden Tate was better than Nelson Agholor and you had not enough good weapons on the outside on the perimeter

Except it turns out Agholor is an outside receiver who is a deep threat, guess Gruden is smarter than Pederson?

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Mike Wallace WAS a better option, a proven deep threat who had almost 800 yards and was NEVER injured in his 9 year career.

Again, hindsight is always 20/20.

He was 33 years old at some point in time he was going to decline or get hurt. I’m sorry I’m not about signing a 33-year-old wide receiver and relying on him week to week even if he never had an injury. That tells me he was probably due to have an injury. I said that immediately when they signed him. You don’t play nine years in the league and avoid injury your entire career it was only a matter of time at 33 that he was either a going to decline or being get injured. Which is what happened. That wasn’t hindsight. To understand that a 33 or older player is likely not going to stay as healthy as when he was younger or have a massive decline and you’re just expecting him to be what he was 2 to 3 years ago was a bad judgment

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Except it turns out Agholor is an outside receiver who is a deep threat, guess Gruden is smarter than Pederson?

 the fact that the Raiders moved him all over the field and he still played a lot of slot for them at times. So there’s that information you casually leave out. And also the casual information that Nelson Agholor was never going to turn around in Philadelphia because it was a mental midget here. But hey another Dave spindaro spin 

9 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

I'm guessing that's because when they go play action, they're not throwing the ball for 5 yards. They're going for a chunk play.

Most teams run PA and then throw a 5 yard pass to the TE in the flats off the boot.

I don’t think I agree at all with your second graph. Besides, isn’t your first paragraph a good thing? It’s not like teams didn’t bother to cover Corey Davis or AJ Brown. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t think I agree at all with your second graph. Besides, isn’t your first paragraph a good thing? It’s not like teams didn’t bother to cover Corey Davis or AJ Brown. 

My point is that Tannehill has a lower completion percentage off play action because he's throwing deep down field on play action way more than average in the NFL. The Titans create a ton of big plays, in the passing game and running game. 

I think their success is more personnel based and Vrabel's influence. 

4 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

I don't care if Pederson was flipping tables in the novacare war room for a Reagor Howie is the GM and makes the call. He selected Reagor. The blood/ink is on his hands and he's not getting off. 

Exactly. A lot of people in here blame Douglas or the coaches, but ultimately Howie is in charge. 

I ask again, if he and his five future GMs are so smart, why isn’t it accepted that the scouts be the dominant voice in the draft room? Wouldn’t the coaches see year over year that he was right and defer to him? Wouldn’t Lurie tell him to stop catering to the coaches when he is right?

Just now, schuy7 said:

My point is that Tannehill has a lower completion percentage off play action because he's throwing deep down field on play action way more than average in the NFL. The Titans create a ton of big plays, in the passing game and running game. 

I think their success is more personnel based and Vrabel's influence. 

But how is that Vrabel?

7 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

In a way, he kind of was a success. Let’s call it a start in that direction. Hear me out. None of us are going to pretend that he had a healthy OL.  Three fifths of the starters were gone.  By the last game, his left tackle was Pryor and his RT was Toth. Back about this time frame last year, some poster asked what we thought about Hurts as a backup QB. (Now like most of us, he was probably thinking fourth round or so, maybe late third.  But that is water under the bridge).   My response was no, he is a one look and run QB.  He has some accuracy but I was not sure he could go through progressions in reading the defense.  

Well, when he wasn’t running for his life, he did have some accuracy.  Leading WRs.  Don’t point to his completion rate.  How many of those were throwing away to avoid sacks, scrambles and drops.  Now his clock goes off a little early, although he has some escapability, which seemed to abandon Carson this year.   So he showed he can do what he did in college at an NFL level and maybe more. There is something to build on.  So, yeah, a bit of NFL success.

One thing I hated in Doug’s O was his spread the field horizontally at the same depth on so many plays.  I said it before, and I will say it again, they need some of Leach’s (or Harrell or Riley or a lot of other college coaches tiered sections.  Somewhere out there is an interview with Leach with either Harrell or Kingsbury as QB and you see how they, and Mahommes, can read so quickly.  The coach stacks the receivers so that the QB can see all of them with a couple quick looks.  Will help Carson and will help Hurts.

He's proven nothing yet.  He may be a quality backup, he may be a starter someday.  But as of right now, he's very much unproven.  My contention was with Afan's assertion that he's already proven to be worthy of that 2nd round selection.  That's fantasy at this point.  But fitting.