Just now, ManuManu said:

Exactly. A lot of people in here blame Douglas or the coaches, but ultimately Howie is in charge. 

I ask again, if he and his five future GMs are so smart, why isn’t it accepted that the scouts be the dominant voice in the draft room? Wouldn’t the coaches see year over year that he was right and defer to him? Wouldn’t Lurie tell him to stop catering to the coaches when he is right?

But how is that Vrabel?

There's no way to know for sure. Let's call it intuition. If the Eagles are looking for a great offensive mind, Smith isn't it based on what happened in TEN. They marry their run and play action game together well, and the threat of freaks like Henry and Brown make it work. Vrabel's a heck of a coach and surely works with the OL in the trenches.

Arthur Smith is everyones favorite apparently. 

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He was 33 years old at some point in time he was going to decline or get hurt. I’m sorry I’m not about signing a 33-year-old wide receiver and relying on him week to week even if he never had an injury. That tells me he was probably due to have an injury. I said that immediately when they signed him. You don’t play nine years in the league and avoid injury your entire career it was only a matter of time at 33 that he was either a going to decline or being get injured. Which is what happened. That wasn’t hindsight. To understand that a 33 or older player is likely not going to stay as healthy as when he was younger or have a massive decline and you’re just expecting him to be what he was 2 to 3 years ago was a bad judgment

Quite the opposite, if you never get injured over 9 years, it's probable you have genetics that make you an outlier - look at the Matthew brothers who played close to 40 years old.

Now at 33 Wallace might be expected to have lost a step, but he had a couple steps to lose, in his prime he could keep up with DeSean, and at 6'1 could high point.

Same thing with Jerrigan and Malik, when you add FAs without an injury history, when they get injured it's bad luck, not bad judgment.

On the other hand, there are players who are injury prone in their 20s, Darby and Hicks, yet somehow they leave and play 16 games this year. Also luck - but I wouldn't bet on that luck continuing.

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Quite the opposite, if you never get injured over 9 years, it's probable you have genetics that make you an outlier - look at the Matthew brothers who played close to 40 years old.

Now at 33 Wallace might be expected to have lost a step, but he had a couple steps to lose, in his prime he could keep up with DeSean, and at 6'1 could high point.

Same thing with Jerrigan and Malik, when you add FAs without an injury history, when they get injured it's bad luck, not bad judgment.

On the other hand, there are players who are injury prone in their 20s, Darby and Hicks, yet somehow they leave and play 16 games this year. Also luck - but I wouldn't bet on that luck continuing.

No quite the opposite if you’re 33 years old and you have that much wear and tear on your body there’s likelihood you’re going to decline faster with all those miles on your body or eventually going to break down because that’s what happens when you get older. I know because I work in physical therapy and I can tell you that you are full of crap with your reasoning. And just because two players did it does not mean all players do it. More players follow the script of more injuries as they get older. Larry Fitzgerald almost never got hurt up until he turned into his mid 30s  that’s what tends to happen when you hit your mid 30s. Your body doesn’t recover like it does when you are younger and you tend to get more banged up in this time

also Malik Jackson was coming off a bad year in Jacksonville where they benched him for a scrub. They should not have given him the contract he got because he might’ve been already on the decline based off how we played in Jacksonville. Again another bad contract that I said at the time why the hell are you giving him that contract when he was coming off a very bad year. His injury didn’t make that a bad contract the fact that he was already showed signs of declining with Jacksonville at 28-29 years old made that a bad contract. 

11 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I was all for getting Anderson. Definitely would have been better to have Anderson than Jackson

Can you please go back and dig up all of the Reagor (and draft eligible WR) discussion  from last year at this time and up to the draft and throw it in people’s faces?

I was on board with the Reagor pick and I still think he’s going to be good.  I argued Jefferson could win outside because he did it at LSU in 2018.  I said Lamb was the best overall prospect, and no damn way would I trade up for Ruggs when Reagor was a comparable player who would be available at #21.

I remember I didn’t like Aiyuk, I liked Claypool but worried he would be redundant in an offense with Goedert and Ertz in the middle of the field.  Didn’t have a lot of interest in Higgins as I recall.

 

 

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Exactly. A lot of people in here blame Douglas or the coaches, but ultimately Howie is in charge. 

I ask again, if he and his five future GMs are so smart, why isn’t it accepted that the scouts be the dominant voice in the draft room? Wouldn’t the coaches see year over year that he was right and defer to him? Wouldn’t Lurie tell him to stop catering to the coaches when he is right?

But how is that Vrabel?

What is right? Who is the best player? For what scheme, what year, which teammates?

It's one thing if you're talking Fletcher Cox, an uber talent who could play one gap or two gap or 3-4 DE. He's the BPA, period.

But if Jefferson is going to run similar routes as Ertz, how much value does he have for the Eagles until you dump Ertz? And will  he make anyone better around him, or just cannabilize their touches. Conversely, if Reagor is a legitimate deep threat, and you don't want to count on DeSean, does he have more value even with lesser statistics if he opens up the field for the other receivers?

I think one reason Jefferson fell is he was perceived as a complimentary receiver who needed talent around him to play his best, not a game breaker that forces defenses to focus on him and opens up the field for teammates.

Reagor doesn't have to put up Jefferson's numbers to be as valuable, he does have to be the deep threat that freezes the safeties, and keeps them out of the box for the run game and opens up the intermediate routes for other receivers. And the key that forces LBs to account for him on end arounds as well as fakes to him.  We'll see the next couple seasons.

Even with Ertz putting up numbers similar to Jefferson, all I read was how we need a big play WR.

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

No quite the opposite if you’re 33 years old and you have that much wear and tear on your body there’s likelihood you’re going to decline faster with all those miles on your body or eventually going to break down because that’s what happens when you get older. I know because I work in physical therapy and I can tell you that you are full of crap with your reasoning. And just because two players did it does not mean all players do it. More players follow the script of more injuries as they get older. Larry Fitzgerald almost never got hurt up until he turned into his mid 30s  that’s what tends to happen when you hit your mid 30s. Your body doesn’t recover like it does when you are younger and you tend to get more banged up in this time

also Malik Jackson was coming off a bad year in Jacksonville where they benched him for a scrub. They should not have given him the contract he got because he might’ve been already on the decline based off how we played in Jacksonville. Again another bad contract that I said at the time why the hell are you giving him that contract when he was coming off a very bad year. His injury didn’t make that a bad contract the fact that he was already showed signs of declining with Jacksonville at 28-29 years old made that a bad contract. 

Jackson got benched because they moved from a one gap to two gap system.

22 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I was all for getting Anderson. Definitely would have been better to have Anderson than Jackson

I basically said it 5-6 times a day in FA then when his price was dropping was even more about going after him. 

 

12 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Arthur Smith is everyones favorite apparently. 

We’ll end up with a guy nobody else interviewed 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I basically said it 5-6 times a day in FA then when his price was dropping was even more about going after him. 

Dude, they had to spend tons of money on another DT so that they could be competent when they rebuild, starting next year... 🤔   Forget about having competent WRs this past year.

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What is right? Who is the best player? For what scheme, what year, which teammates?

It's one thing if you're talking Fletcher Cox, an uber talent who could play one gap or two gap or 3-4 DE. He's the BPA, period.

But if Jefferson is going to run similar routes as Ertz, how much value does he have for the Eagles until you dump Ertz? And will  he make anyone better around him, or just cannabilize their touches. Conversely, if Reagor is a legitimate deep threat, and you don't want to count on DeSean, does he have more value even with lesser statistics if he opens up the field for the other receivers?

I think one reason Jefferson fell is he was perceived as a complimentary receiver who needed talent around him to play his best, not a game breaker that forces defenses to focus on him and opens up the field for teammates.

Reagor doesn't have to put up Jefferson's numbers to be as valuable, he does have to be the deep threat that freezes the safeties, and keeps them out of the box for the run game and opens up the intermediate routes for other receivers. And the key that forces LBs to account for him on end arounds as well as fakes to him.  We'll see the next couple seasons.

Even with Ertz putting up numbers similar to Jefferson, all I read was how we need a big play WR.

Jackson got benched because they moved from a one gap to two gap system.

No he got benched because he was playing poorly. Particularly against the run. He was atrocious against the run. But yeah his 64.1 pff grade that was the lowest of his career says  he didn’t play very well

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-down-year-leads-to-malik-jacksons-release-but-his-floor-as-a-pass-rusher-is-still-valuable

Yes this is the type of guy i want to pay a big money contract too that’s probably on the decline at 29  sounds like a winner for me  

The 29-year-old Los Angeles native said in December he was likely to move on after losing his starting role during the 2018 NFL campaign.

"In my mind, if I'm third or fourth on the depth chart making $14.5 million to $15 million, I don't see too much future for me in Jacksonville," Jackson told reporters. "I'm not trying to be a journeyman by any means. But it's a business, and soon as you try to forget that then it's a rude awakening for sure."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2815979-report-malik-jackson-informed-by-jaguars-he-will-be-released-after-3-seasons.amp.html

 

WAIT THERES MORE 

The analytics corroborate this sentiment, as Jackson is currently graded as the 105th defensive interior player in the NFL with a 54.6 run defense grade and 66.7 pass rush grade in 448 total snaps this year. After registering eight sacks in 2017, Jackson has only one sack with nine quarterback hits and four tackles for loss in 2018.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bigcatcountry.com/platform/amp/2018/11/19/18103331/is-malik-jacksons-time-as-a-jacksonville-jaguar-coming-to-an-end
 

yep that’s the guy I clearly want to pay a big money contract to at 29 years old. No way he was going to be on the decline at 29 years old coming off a bad season. 
 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

We’ll end up with a guy nobody else interviewed 

Kafka... Seriously, can we finally be done with the Andy "tree of coaches"?? Can't believe I'm saying this but I think I'd even take the cowboys o-coordinator over another Andy guy. I want to throw that damn west coast offense trapper keeper into a vat of acid. 

7 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

We’ll end up with a guy nobody else interviewed 

It will be Jason Peters, for no logical explanation 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

you want to be really upset about our cap situation go look at the wide receivers that are going to be available in the free-agent market this off-season. If we actually had cap space to spend there’s like two or three that would be massive upgrades and worth the money you were going to pay them. Meanwhile we were like lets just restructure Alshon Jeffery and trade for an old injury prone DeSean Jackson 

I already thought what it would be like if TATE could realistically hope for adding both Allen Robinson and JuJu in free agency. 

Taco Bell right now is at the top of the being on top of your game game. The bacon club chalupa AND nacho fries, AT THE SAME TIME!

I think Ive been there every night lately. 

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Dude, they had to spend tons of money on another DT so that they could be competent when they rebuild, starting next year... 🤔   Forget about having competent WRs this past year.

The defending of some (most) of their moves since 2018 is beyond ridiculous. 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Taco Bell right now is at the top of the being on top of your game game. The bacon club chalupa AND nacho fries, AT THE SAME TIME!

I think Ive been there every night lately. 

How’s your toilet working? Lol 

31 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He's proven nothing yet.  He may be a quality backup, he may be a starter someday.  But as of right now, he's very much unproven.  My contention was with Afan's assertion that he's already proven to be worthy of that 2nd round selection.  That's fantasy at this point.  But fitting.

I differ.  I think he proved he can bring his flawed one read and run game with decent accuracy to the NFL. Now if he doesn’t grow from there, he is a day three level back up.   Not worth a second round pick and may never be.  But he showed more than the third day QBs picked in the NFCE in the last four years.  

23 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

 

Overrated in my view.  Note a lot of his sacks are on cleanup. Cupboard is so bare at DE this year he may go late first but he really strikes me as a late second day DE.  

41 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I basically said it 5-6 times a day in FA then when his price was dropping was even more about going after him. 

When did his priced drop. Jets were talking to four teams and never consummated a trade, and didn't even get comp pick compensation for him.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

When did his priced drop. Jets were talking to four teams and never consummated a trade, and didn't even get comp pick compensation for him.

In free agency is what we were talking about. Try to keep up. His price dropped when he stayed on the market for as long as he did. Why he got 2 years 20 million which was much less than tyrelle Williams the previous offseason. there were people on here who thought he was going to get $14-$15 million per year. I said there’s no way he’s getting more than 11, million per year. If he does tip of the cap to him but that was unlike to happen

secondly they don’t get can’t pick compensation for him until this year anyways and if he went to the Eagles they might have got a comp for him if he left. The only reason the Jets aren’t getting one is because they sign too many players. Additionally instead of getting eight games of golden Tate, I would’ve gotten 24 games of Anderson and chance to re-sign him as he was young and I don’t have to make the DeSean Jackson move and waste money by setting it on fire

23 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I differ.  I think he proved he can bring his flawed one read and run game with decent accuracy to the NFL. Now if he doesn’t grow from there, he is a day three level back up.   Not worth a second round pick and may never be.  But he showed more than the third day QBs picked in the NFCE in the last four years.  

Well, since I said he was picked 1 round early, I suppose we are in agreement.  Round 3 is at the end of Day 2.  Being a flawed, 1 read and run QB to me is not worthy of a 2nd round pick.   And he was quickly shut down in the 2nd half... more tape on him and they likely shut him down sooner.   Again, that's not 2nd Round level stuff.  He could grow and develop, but that remains to be seen, which was my point.  It is not a certainty that he's worthy of a 2nd round pick... 3rd, I can agree to.  But definitely not #53.

42 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

No he got benched because he was playing poorly. Particularly against the run. He was atrocious against the run. But yeah his 64.1 pff grade that was the lowest of his career says  he didn’t play very well

https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-malik-jackson-fletcher-cox-calais-campbell-20190819.html

 

47 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What is right? Who is the best player? For what scheme, what year, which teammates?

It's one thing if you're talking Fletcher Cox, an uber talent who could play one gap or two gap or 3-4 DE. He's the BPA, period.

But if Jefferson is going to run similar routes as Ertz, how much value does he have for the Eagles until you dump Ertz? And will  he make anyone better around him, or just cannabilize their touches. Conversely, if Reagor is a legitimate deep threat, and you don't want to count on DeSean, does he have more value even with lesser statistics if he opens up the field for the other receivers?

I think one reason Jefferson fell is he was perceived as a complimentary receiver who needed talent around him to play his best, not a game breaker that forces defenses to focus on him and opens up the field for teammates.

Reagor doesn't have to put up Jefferson's numbers to be as valuable, he does have to be the deep threat that freezes the safeties, and keeps them out of the box for the run game and opens up the intermediate routes for other receivers. And the key that forces LBs to account for him on end arounds as well as fakes to him.  We'll see the next couple seasons.

Even with Ertz putting up numbers similar to Jefferson, all I read was how we need a big play WR.

Jackson got benched because they moved from a one gap to two gap system.

Look, I wanted Reagor and loved how he fit in our offense — theoretically. But I’m just a dumb dumb on the internet. That’s for Howie and Co. to decide. The scouts had Jefferson ahead of Reagor and believed he could play on the outside.  Jefferson proved all of his doubters wrong, and played like a No. 1 receiver on the outside. That’s a miss for Howie. 

A year ago I would have agreed that Reagor as a deep threat wouldn’t have to put up as good a numbers as Jefferson to be as valuable, but that was under the impression that he was a 1,000 yard, 6 TD type of player. Jefferson put up near-elite numbers on elite efficiency. Reagor has to be more than a deep threat to be as valuable. 

52 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

We’ll end up with a guy nobody else interviewed 

Worked out OK the last two times we did that. 

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, since I said he was picked 1 round early, I suppose we are in agreement.  Round 3 is at the end of Day 2.  Being a flawed, 1 read and run QB to me is not worthy of a 2nd round pick.   And he was quickly shut down in the 2nd half... more tape on him and they likely shut him down sooner.   Again, that's not 2nd Round level stuff.  He could grow and develop, but that remains to be seen, which was my point.  It is not a certainty that he's worthy of a 2nd round pick... 3rd, I can agree to.  But definitely not #53.

Third round QBs (except for 2012, a truly freak season, but Osweiler went ahead of Wilson, Foles and Cousins, go figure), are marginal backups, even most 2nd rd QBs flop. When i say flop, I mean they're not even serviceable backups (of the 32 backup QBs, maybe 10 at best can actually win games coming off the bench).

So if Hurts is a solid back up and potential starter, he's actually a top 40 value. Look at the QBs who go early 2nd rd.

QBs get "overdrafted" for a simple reason, they're the most important player on your team.