6 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Whether you like Carson or don't.  Whether you wanted him gone or not.  There is one thing that we should be able to agree on...this organization is in tatters. It has poor misguided ownership.  It has a poor front office led by an inept GM, who has zero ability to identify talent.  There is no accountability for their failures.  The communication strategies are questionable at best.   Hopefully, this is the low point.  It is really rather disturbing.

Hyperbole much?  One losing season after a SB and two playoff runs is an "organization in tatters?" Guess you don't follow the NFL. Outside of four franchises, Sea, NE, GB and PIT (and maybe KC going forward if AR doesn't implode over his kid), every franchise has had its ups and downs the last two decades, the bad ones have had mostly "downs", the good ones have shorter rebuilding periods and pop back up (Balt for example missed the playoffs 4 of 5 seasons after their SB).

Howie has rebuilt this team after 2012 and 2015, so he's got a better track record than probably 2/3s of the "football player" GMs that have been hired the last decade. See how many franchises are in their 2nd or 3rd rebuild with maybe 1 or 2 PO appearances in the last decade to show for it. When you have a proven track record, you've earned patience.

10 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

62% and the 3:1 ratio I agree.  But how many NFL QB's average 10 yards per completion?  

Most. Now ten yards per attempt, that would be historic.

The last major media holdout folds.

A few more days and maybe @downundermikeand @greend will have their heads out of the sand.

Disaster on all fronts but reality nonetheless.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Most. Now ten yards per attempt, that would be historic.

I misread that.  I was actually referring to YPA.

7 minutes ago, Thrive said:

The last major media holdout folds.

A few more days and maybe @downundermikeand @greend will have their heads out of the sand.

Disaster on all fronts but reality nonetheless.

No one has been more public than Brandt that it won't happen.

So if he's turned, it's happening

If Wentz does get traded, what are the chances Howie takes a QB at 6?....

4 minutes ago, What The F said:

If Wentz does get traded, what are the chances Howie takes a QB at 6?....

If Wentz does get traded, then Howie should take...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...retirement.

I think with Howie at the draft helm, anything is possible, really...but after taking Hurts last draft in the 2nd, I would imagine the Eagles would me more inclined to give Hurts at least a full season to see what he can do...

I have no problem with that approach, if Wentz does get traded...and if that's the case, it also wouldn't surprise me if they even traded back from 6 to, say 10-12, to get another couple of day 2 picks to fill in their depleted roster (as it is going to be)...as I can't see how they are going to be active in Free Agency this year, if they eat a $34m cap hit from the trade.

It looks like a very interesting off-season/draft coming up...

I still think Howie is just information gathering while he waits for Sirianni to analyze what went wrong last season. And the media is cross referencing each other, treating speculation as "fact." The only thing anyone could know is that other GMs have called Howie, I doubt Howie is telling anyone anything.

Sirianni simply hasn't had the time to do this kind of in-depth study, so the only reason he'd agree to trade Wentz is Reich told him he's "unfixable." Which means Indy isn't a destination.

As far as Hurts at QB, Sirianni ain't running a RPO, he might put in a few RPO plays to take advantage of Hurts' mobility, but it would be likely similar to what Indy ran with Rivers last year, lots of intermediate and crossing routes with only an occasional shot down field (with an average arm, you can't force it deep against NFL defenses, you have to take them by surprise).

I could see them going Pitts over Chase in that case, if Chase isn't great at separation, Pitts' size and route running would make him a better choice for that sort of offense, giving his QB a big intermediate target (with Goedert working underneath or up the seam). The ability to get deep has less value if you don't have a strong armed QB - more important to provide a reliable target in the 10-20 yard area. Use Sanders, Reagor and Watkins on screens, Reagor on crossing routes, and so on. Lots of deception, moving picks, and YAC.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

I could see them going Pitts over Chase in that case, if Chase isn't great at separation, Pitts' size and route running would make him a better choice for that sort of offense, giving his QB a big intermediate target (with Goedert working underneath or up the seam). The ability to get deep has less value if you don't have a strong armed QB - more important to provide a reliable target in the 10-20 yard area. Use Sanders, Reagor and Watkins on screens, Reagor on crossing routes, and so on. Lots of deception, moving picks, and YAC.

I love Kyle Pitts and in a vacuum would love to add him to our roster.

At the same time, taking a TE in the top 10 is malpractice.

The cap hit is the least of Howie's concerns, it makes sense to rebuild the roster before making major FA moves, because most NFL contracts are essentially three year deals, so why sign people in the first year of a rebuild only to have to replace them the 2nd season when you're competitive or quickly run up against the cap again. So whether he takes the Wentz hit in 2021 or 2022-23 really doesn't impact his long-term strategy. You can pick up one year patches for cheap (guys buried on the depth chart, coming off injuries for a "prove it" season, and collect comp picks if they sign elsewhere in 2022.

On 2/5/2021 at 10:36 PM, NCiggles said:

If Wentz is gone, the correct move is to draft a QB.  I am not convinced about Hurts.  I think Wilson or Fields have better potential.  I agree that Mac Jones is going to go in the first.  

Some Youtube guy had Jones going in the top 5, 4 QBs in the top 5. It is supposed to be the cream of the draft. Sure draft one as long as it isn’t forced or give Hurts next year while picking up an experienced back up and nothing like Chase Daniels. There is also the QB merry go round but I next year seems like a waste for this

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I still think Howie is just information gathering while he waits for Sirianni to analyze what went wrong last season. And the media is cross referencing each other, treating speculation as "fact." The only thing anyone could know is that other GMs have called Howie, I doubt Howie is telling anyone anything.

Sirianni simply hasn't had the time to do this kind of in-depth study, so the only reason he'd agree to trade Wentz is Reich told him he's "unfixable." Which means Indy isn't a destination.

As far as Hurts at QB, Sirianni ain't running a RPO, he might put in a few RPO plays to take advantage of Hurts' mobility, but it would be likely similar to what Indy ran with Rivers last year, lots of intermediate and crossing routes with only an occasional shot down field (with an average arm, you can't force it deep against NFL defenses, you have to take them by surprise).

I could see them going Pitts over Chase in that case, if Chase isn't great at separation, Pitts' size and route running would make him a better choice for that sort of offense, giving his QB a big intermediate target (with Goedert working underneath or up the seam). The ability to get deep has less value if you don't have a strong armed QB - more important to provide a reliable target in the 10-20 yard area. Use Sanders, Reagor and Watkins on screens, Reagor on crossing routes, and so on. Lots of deception, moving picks, and YAC.

 

 

You are fooling yourself if you think Sirianni has much say at all in what Lurie and Howie do with Wentz.  I'm sure they are keeping him in the loop but there is 0 chance that they need him to sign off on it before they pull the trigger on a trade.  He does not have final say over Roseman.  

Just now, RLC said:

I love Kyle Pitts and in a vacuum would love to add him to our roster.

At the same time, taking a TE in the top 10 is malpractice.

He's not a TE, he's a H-back. Jeez.

That's an important distinction, few TEs are impact offensive players (Witten, Gronk) but a really athletic H-back is more like a big possession receiver than a TE.

Most 220 lb WRs, even if they run 4.4 in shorts, lack the burst to get deep  off the LOS. It's one thing to have long stride speed, it's quite another to be an explosive player like DeSean.

So running a faster 40 doesn't mean a WR is going to more of a deep threat than Pitts.

On 2/3/2021 at 10:33 PM, downundermike said:

You’re free to believe what you want. The optics of it would be embarrassing for Jeff Lurie to take the biggest dead cap hit in NFL history, 13 million more than the previous. Not gonna happen.

You may be the last hold out man. 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

You are fooling yourself if you think Sirianni has much say at all in what Lurie and Howie do with Wentz.  I'm sure they are keeping him in the loop but there is 0 chance that they need him to sign off on it before they pull the trigger on a trade.  He does not have final say over Roseman.  

You are fooling yourself if you think they hired an offensive coach and are then going to trade his starting QB without his input.

People have some really weird ideas about Lowie, they've been following local media far too much.

This will be a group decision, and Sirianni's opinion will carry the most weight.

A month or two ago I would have been really pissed to see Wentz traded. At this point, while I want him back in 2021, I’m pretty much dead inside when it comes to the Eagles. 

Whatever happens happens.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

You are fooling yourself if you think they hired an offensive coach and are then going to trade his starting QB without his input.

People have some really weird ideas about Lowie, they've been following local media far too much.

This will be a group decision, and Sirianni's opinion will carry the most weight.

 

You're fooling yourself if you think they didn't already address this in the interview process.  Also Sirianni's opinion absolutely 100% does not carry more weight than Howie's in the NovaCare Complex.  A big reason they hired him was the same reason they hired Doug, someone that wasn't being sought after by any other teams that wouldn't have the clout or desire to come in and challenge Howie on any thing.  

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You are fooling yourself if you think they hired an offensive coach and are then going to trade his starting QB without his input.

People have some really weird ideas about Lowie, they've been following local media far too much.

This will be a group decision, and Sirianni's opinion will carry the most weight.

And your insight comes from...?

No, don't tell me.

56 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yeah, wonder why you follow a different strategy rebuilding a team than after you've won a SB and are trying to keep the window open for a couple seasons?

Yes, I wonder why he would change the strategy.   The strategy for 2017 was low risk, high leverage players on limited years/money deals.   That worked.   The strategy for 2018 and beyond was high risk, low leverage players on big years/money deals.   And that has failed miserably.  

The window after 2017 was basically closed, unless they could retool immediately.  Right out the gate, the lost their OC, QB Coach and multiple major contributors (Blount and Robinson for two).

They tried to run it back in 2018... brought back Chris Long, Jason Peters, Darren Sproles, Nick Foles... and even made some prudent moves (not necessarily ones that I agreed with at the time, but was 'ok' with) - Mike Wallace to replace Torry Smith made enough sense to not quibble over it.  They brought back Jeffery, even though I wanted them to move on to Allen Robinson then, that move made sense... in 2018.

But, after that, they needed to be smart about how they moved forward.  And rather than be smart, they got STUPID.  They traded for an aging, small, speed WR... and then gave him a huge deal locking them in for big money for 3 years to him - (in direct contrast to the low commitment deals they had given to Smith and Wallace the previous 2 years, which ironically is why they had the flexibility to make this stupid move!)   
They renegotiated Jeffery's deal just before the 2019 season came about, right after they had drafted JJAW (and were raving about how good he was looking in TC/PS).  That locked them in to him for 2 more years... or was it 3? 
They brought Jason Peters back... again.  (and again... and again).   They needed to turn the page on him after 2018.  They gave it a shot but it didn't work out.  Thanks, Jason.  We love you.  Here's your gold watch.   They had one year left with Vaitai as a bridge to the new LT.  They needed to take advantage of that flexibility.  And they also traded up for a LT in Round 1 of the 2019 draft.  Let him and Vaitai fight for the job.  Best man wins.
They brought Darren Sproles back... again.  He was after getting higher on the all-time yards list.  OK... do that somewhere else Darren.  Sorry, but you only HURT the team by returning in 2019... but, because they missed in the 2017 draft with Donnell Pumphrey, (rather than the guy they were supposedly very high on -Tarik Cohen) they weren't really prepared with a new 3rd down, punt returner, kickoff returner.  

 

The list goes on and on after the 2019 season where they really needed to turn the page and move on from these older players... and all they did was kick the can, trade more picks for a player about to leave his prime and sign him to another big money deal again!

Sorry, there's no defense for what Howie (and Co.) did following the Super Bowl, specifically following the 2018 season up to now.   Even that extra money they gave Foles after the Super Bowl.   That was a really nice gesture... but also really stupid from a cap perspective.  Yes, he was the QB to play in the Super Bowl, you won.  But that's not a reason to tank your salary cap.  That was a prime example of Howie paying for past performances... which he did with Desean... Jeffery... Brooks... Johnson... Slay... etc.   That's how you end up in cap hell... which is right where we are.

12 minutes ago, RLC said:

I love Kyle Pitts and in a vacuum would love to add him to our roster.

At the same time, taking a TE in the top 10 is malpractice.

Have you watched what Howie has done over the last 3 years?   I'd say that taking a TE in the top 10 would fit perfectly with recent history.

Not that I trust this guy as some kind of insider, but playing along for a moment... 

Can we even afford to take back Foles’ salary in a deal?

Edit: It looks like his base salary is $4M if I understand Spotrac correctly (big if). 

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The cap hit is the least of Howie's concerns, it makes sense to rebuild the roster before making major FA moves, because most NFL contracts are essentially three year deals, so why sign people in the first year of a rebuild only to have to replace them the 2nd season when you're competitive or quickly run up against the cap again. So whether he takes the Wentz hit in 2021 or 2022-23 really doesn't impact his long-term strategy. You can pick up one year patches for cheap (guys buried on the depth chart, coming off injuries for a "prove it" season, and collect comp picks if they sign elsewhere in 2022.

What?   It's Howie's strategy?   I thought he was merely an information gatherer and consensus builder... not an architect.   Please find a position on Howie and stick to it, Mr. Lurie.

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

He's not a TE, he's a H-back. Jeez.

That's an important distinction, few TEs are impact offensive players (Witten, Gronk) but a really athletic H-back is more like a big possession receiver than a TE.

Most 220 lb WRs, even if they run 4.4 in shorts, lack the burst to get deep  off the LOS. It's one thing to have long stride speed, it's quite another to be an explosive player like DeSean.

So running a faster 40 doesn't mean a WR is going to more of a deep threat than Pitts.

How many H-backs impact offenses?   

How many big possession receivers impact offenses?  (please... please... please do not try to play the Calvin Johnson card here... I beg you!)

 

I'm curious just how much more likely an H-back is compared to a TE of being the center piece of an offense...

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What?   It's Howie's strategy?   I thought he was merely an information gatherer and consensus builder... not an architect.   Please find a position on Howie and stick to it, Mr. Lurie.

Afan's narrative regarding Howie is like an amoeba - it changes shape constantly as it moves.