8 minutes ago, Procus said:

Then the team brass would have been happy and kept him.  Everything is not always a conspiracy as many would like to believe.

Well no hang on... It was suggested that Lurie wanted to give Chip the rope to hang himself with. But that only works if / when that individual does indeed hang themselves. 

17 hours ago, Procus said:

Name one.

I'll do it for him:

Nobody

21 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Well no hang on... It was suggested that Lurie wanted to give Chip the rope to hang himself with. But that only works if / when that individual does indeed hang themselves. 

Kelly indeed hung himself.

I think kelly could have survived as an OC if his ego allowed, as a head coach he doesn't have the people skills to relate to professional players. In college he can get away with all his arrogant BS and quirky stuff but as an nfl coach he just comes off as a self interested a hole. 

Some will make the billichick comparison and say he's an a hole and it's worked for him and while bilicheat can be abrasive with the media his players and coaches are loyal to him and with those people he's a master communicator and a pretty good GM to boot.

Kelly was neither.

Pederson meanwhile was a players coach but to the media and in general he comes off as dumb as a brick.

Don't know much about Siriani but from what I hear he's a good communicator with players management and players which goes a long way.

On 1/25/2021 at 10:53 PM, Procus said:

1.  In 1999 - the press and fans said the Eagles organization was a mess and dysfunctional.  The team hired Andy Reid and did quite good for itself although the Eagles were widely panned for hiring a QB coach with no head coaching experience.

2.  In 2016 - the Eagles were widely criticized for hiring Doug Pederson as head coach.  The team won the Super Bowl the next year.

Very true!  Funny enough, the only hire the Eagles were not ripped for was Chip Kelley and we all saw how that turned out.  

Regarding Duce, there's a few things that interest me with how things went after he was released.   I think these things speak volumes about him. 

First, nobody (that we know of) offered any jobs as OC.  The position he took was a lateral move, as a running backs coach.  Why?   He's a good position coach, but doesn't know much outside of his job there.   He was snatched up almost immediately, which also supports this theory.  

21 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Like who? That is a genuine question because I can't think of one back that played for duce that played well somewhere else after being cut. 

Raheem Mostart 49ers

Dion Lewis started for Pats a few years back

There were a few others but those are the recent examples.

17 hours ago, Procus said:

Name one.

Raheem Mostart 49ers, was lighting it up until he got hurt and is their undisputed starter at RB.

 

21 minutes ago, Vileborg said:

Raheem Mostart 49ers

Dion Lewis started for Pats a few years back

There were a few others but those are the recent examples.

Mostart was cut by 5 other teams after we cut him. So we weren't the only ones.  Actually he has been on the niners for 5 years now so it's a good chance they developed him

Dion lewis was cut before duce became the running back coach here. 

Duce was never anything special. He turned down an opportunity here for a OC promotion. He nor anyone else deserves a promotion to anything just because of tenure or because he was liked by his players. If anything, being here so long, never getting interviewed by another team for HC or OC, and a lateral move to another team with the same exact title tells the whole story. The Eagles didn't do him wrong. Get over it.

45 minutes ago, John Blutarski said:

He nor anyone else deserves a promotion to anything just because of tenure or because he was liked by his players.

If players like him and they believe he's a true leader of men then actually I think that's a reason why someone could potentially make a good HC.

1 hour ago, John Blutarski said:

Duce was never anything special. He turned down an opportunity here for a OC promotion. He nor anyone else deserves a promotion to anything just because of tenure or because he was liked by his players. If anything, being here so long, never getting interviewed by another team for HC or OC, and a lateral move to another team with the same exact title tells the whole story. The Eagles didn't do him wrong. Get over it.

Funny thing is I had these thoughts the same thoughts of Duce, that he was a great developer of talent and being screwed over and the best position coach on the team.....

Then people kept saying things like vileborg did and some others saying the same thing about how great he is. Then I kept thinking and thinking and kind of going through the last 7 yrs or so and thought to myself, damn he really hasn't done much of anything spectacular or turned any low round pick into a great back.

Only thing I'll still give him credit for is his guys always seem to be ready to play on game day and play hard for him. 

13 hours ago, Procus said:

he wanted to give Chip enough rope to hang himself with

If Lurie purposely gave a head coach all the power to "hang himself" then he's a terrible leader.  If you have reservations about a coach or any staff, you deal with them.  

22 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If Lurie purposely gave a head coach all the power to "hang himself" then he's a terrible leader.  If you have reservations about a coach or any staff, you deal with them.  

He always says giving chip that power was the biggest regret as an owner. I always wonder what he means by that. 

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

He always says giving chip that power was the biggest regret as an owner. I always wonder what he means by that. 

Lurie admits to wanting an elite offense and he likes the idea of being on the cutting edge and innovative.  I think he saw Chip taking the NFL by storm, Foles having a great year and all of that and just wanted to go all in on Chip.  Chip didn't like Howie.  Chip was said to be a football nerd who obsessively studied film and worked tireless hours studying, coming up with plays, evaluating players, etc.  He's a true "football guy" in that sense.  I could absolutely see Chip seeing Howie as not "a football guy" who doesn't understand X's and O's and other aspects of scheme and player evaluation and thinking like many fans have:  he's an Accountant who handles the contracts but doesn't know how to draft or select players.

I could see Chip convincing Lurie that to REALLY excel he needs to be the cook that buys the groceries as well.  

I think what Lurie regrets is giving a newer coach that much power too early.  Andy Reid didn't get that kind of power until he had proven himself more.  

Many people think Howie is a weasel or a snake, and given that reputation you could see Howie selling to Lurie that he knows how to run things.  Howie said in his year off (he called it a sabbatical) he spent time meeting with other GMs across all different sports organizations to learn what it takes to run a team.  I'm sure he sold Lurie that Howie 2.0 will be better.

Then they won a Super Bowl to validate it.  It was a mix of Reich at OC, Doug's aggressiveness and the lighting in the bottle free agents and trades on top of players Reid and Chip picked.  Once Howie was doing all the drafting they were bad drafts.

So now Lurie has to observe Howie with this new (very young) coaching staff.  Who has the best evaluation of players and is best to build the team?  We already have seen many examples where the scouts or coaches wanted a player but Howie took someone else.  How long can Lurie ignore that?

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

So now Lurie has to observe Howie with this new (very young) coaching staff.  Who has the best evaluation of players and is best to build the team?  We already have seen many examples where the scouts or coaches wanted a player but Howie took someone else.  How long can Lurie ignore that?

You know I was one of the people on here saying " yeah like the coaches and scouts are going to say so and so is a good prospect and Howie is going to take whoever he wanted anyways. " 

The reason I thought that way was because I didn't think it was possible that an owner or a GM would run a team like that.... I actually still liked Howie going into this past season . Again I didn't think a team would run things the way they did.

I'll admit I was wrong all day and it didn't take much for me going into this season to realize how absolutely awful Howie is and opened my mind to it a bit more. I'm not to stubborn and I don't worry about being right like a lot of people on here. My mind can be changed lol. 

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

If Lurie purposely gave a head coach all the power to "hang himself" then he's a terrible leader.  If you have reservations about a coach or any staff, you deal with them.  

He did, the next year.  You don't fire a coach after a 10-6 season.

3 hours ago, John Blutarski said:

Duce was never anything special. He turned down an opportunity here for a OC promotion. He nor anyone else deserves a promotion to anything just because of tenure or because he was liked by his players. If anything, being here so long, never getting interviewed by another team for HC or OC, and a lateral move to another team with the same exact title tells the whole story. The Eagles didn't do him wrong. Get over it.

Exactly.  We all loved Duce as a player - but that doesn't qualify him to be a head coach.  It's ridiculous, and quite frankly, it was an overreach for him to have players text their support for him to the ownership.

I said it before, why not the same outrage that Jeff Stoutland wasn't named head coach.  He clearly has been the best position coach on the squad for years.

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Well no hang on... It was suggested that Lurie wanted to give Chip the rope to hang himself with. But that only works if / when that individual does indeed hang themselves. 

You can be assured that the brass would have much preferred that Chip set the world on fire in 2015.

1 hour ago, Procus said:

He did, the next year.  You don't fire a coach after a 10-6 season.

My point is BEFORE that, if you think he is a problem you don't give him all the power to get rid of talent and ruin the locker room to hang himself.  You hold him accountable in the job he has and if he doesn't do that job well, get rid of him.  I don't think that's what Lurie did here.  I don't buy it.  Lurie gave him power because he was enamored with the idea of an innovative college coach changing the NFL and needing power to pick the players to really elevate what he could do.  

Then Lurie saw that it failed, and the players hated Chip.  Then Lurie decided "emotional intelligence" was the key to the next coach, Doug.

Now Doug was a players coach that they loved, but doesn't hold people accountable, didn't have good coaches after Reich and Flip left.  So now Lurie wants "a leader of men."  Lurie changes what he wants with every coach, the organization has no identify.  

 

31 minutes ago, NOTW said:

My point is BEFORE that, if you think he is a problem you don't give him all the power to get rid of talent and ruin the locker room to hang himself.  You hold him accountable in the job he has and if he doesn't do that job well, get rid of him.  I don't think that's what Lurie did here.  I don't buy it.  Lurie gave him power because he was enamored with the idea of an innovative college coach changing the NFL and needing power to pick the players to really elevate what he could do.  

Then Lurie saw that it failed, and the players hated Chip.  Then Lurie decided "emotional intelligence" was the key to the next coach, Doug.

Now Doug was a players coach that they loved, but doesn't hold people accountable, didn't have good coaches after Reich and Flip left.  So now Lurie wants "a leader of men."  Lurie changes what he wants with every coach, the organization has no identify. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/22/eagles-owner-had-to-give-chip-kelly-power-to-see-if-hed-sink-or-swim/

Quote

Eagles owner: Had to give Chip Kelly power to see if he’d sink or swim

Posted by Darin Gantt on March 22, 2016, 6:00 PM EDT

Getty Images

Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie didn’t mind investing all the power in Chip Kelly last year, because it only cost him a lost year.

Lurie said he thought that removing Howie Roseman from a position of power so that Kelly could be in charge was required, so he could make a proper decision on his coach.

"I think it was a necessary way to go to find out if Chip was the right guy,” Lurie said, via Dave Zangaro of CSNPhilly.com. "Let him be responsible for all the decisions that he wanted to inject and make. No question I have that it was the right way to dissect if Chip was going to be the right guy going forward or not. We dissected it and decided with all of the great things he brought, he wasn’t the right person going forward.

"And it was helpful for him to be accountable for those decisions so we could move on in a great way.”

The short version was it failed utterly, allowing Lurie to fire Kelly and go back to Roseman, who has acted swiftly to erase most vestiges of Kelly in Philadelphia. And as hard and expensive as a rebuild might seem, Lurie seemed to shrug off the cost.

"The expense of the lesson is just time, it’s not money,” Lurie said. "We’re all about wanting to win big. No amount of money will ever prevent us. We’re all in, as you know. It’s all about winning championships for Philadelphia. So we lost some time, we didn’t lose in the classic way of expense. It was a time expense.”

Of course, the fans who spent a lot of their money for a year of Lurie’s time might have a different view. But it also creates the impression that after chasing Kelly so aggressively, the Eagles quickly developed second thoughts. And that caused Lurie to let Kelly build his own catapult, which was either going to propel him up or out.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/sports/football/in-nfl-losing-never-seems-to-be-the-owners-fault.html

Quote

N.F.L. Owners Find Fault, Take Action and Steer Clear of Blame

By William C. Rhoden
Jan. 6, 2016

The owner Jeffrey Lurie of the Eagles last week. Asked why he had given Coach Chip Kelly everything he had wanted, Lurie would not admit Kelly’s hiring had been a mistake.Credit...David Maialetti/The Philadelphia Inquirer, via Associated Press

In Philadelphia, the Eagles’ owner, Jeffrey Lurie, fell for the Chip Kelly smoke-and-mirrors show. Lurie handed Kelly the keys to the franchise in 2013, watched as Kelly chased away the team’s best players, then only said good riddance — before this season was over — when it became clear the team had quit on Kelly.

Asked on Monday why he had given Kelly everything he wanted, Lurie could not bring himself to admit his hiring had been a mistake. Lurie said he had merely been conducting a "three-year evaluation,” giving Kelly just enough rope to hang himself.

"I wanted to make Chip accountable for everything he wanted to have happen,” the owner said. "And one of the ways to make him accountable was to have him make those decisions.”

43 minutes ago, NOTW said:

My point is BEFORE that, if you think he is a problem you don't give him all the power to get rid of talent and ruin the locker room to hang himself.  You hold him accountable in the job he has and if he doesn't do that job well, get rid of him.  I don't think that's what Lurie did here.  I don't buy it.  Lurie gave him power because he was enamored with the idea of an innovative college coach changing the NFL and needing power to pick the players to really elevate what he could do.  

Then Lurie saw that it failed, and the players hated Chip.  Then Lurie decided "emotional intelligence" was the key to the next coach, Doug.

Now Doug was a players coach that they loved, but doesn't hold people accountable, didn't have good coaches after Reich and Flip left.  So now Lurie wants "a leader of men."  Lurie changes what he wants with every coach, the organization has no identify.  

 

I usually agree with you and look at things through your eyes but, I just don't know about this one. I think Lurie was pissed that chip casted his best players aside and couldn't work with them. Then bashed Howie and demanded power over the roster and Chip thought he knew best. I think Lurie was like fine do what you want and let him knowing he would fail. I think Lurie regrets letting a coach like chip get  the best of him and letting him run his franchise into the ground to prove a point. 

4 hours ago, Procus said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/22/eagles-owner-had-to-give-chip-kelly-power-to-see-if-hed-sink-or-swim/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/sports/football/in-nfl-losing-never-seems-to-be-the-owners-fault.html

Well, that's bad leadership. 

Lurie thanked Duce, and said they felt it best for Duce's goal to be a HC to go to another organization to gain experience to move up.

So he does have a goal to be a HC.

It’s quite possible the best thing that happened to Duce was getting the heck outta here. 

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s quite possible the best thing that happened to Duce was getting the heck outta here. 

He only knows Philly as a coach. Even though he's not in the best situation now, it's still experience outside of here. He's working with new people, getting exposed to new ideas and management. Could only be good for him. Probably wouldn't hurt if he could coach at least 1 other position before getting a true OC title later on.

If Duce has the long term goal of being a HC, then moving on is best for him. To be a HC, I would guess that there are steps towards becoming one that are short to mid-term objectives and some that are long term objectives. Here's a massively oversimplified look at it.

In the short term. Coaching as many positions on your side of the ball as you can seems beneficial, as does eventually contributing to game planning and play calling. Building the foundation of your (hopefully positive) reputation with players, coaches, and FO personnel is accomplished.

In the long term, networking is critical to becoming a HC. As you meet other coaches and build relationships, you have to have open and honest conversations that allow you to make a list of coaches who you would join and work under, and who would want you as well, to help them become an all time great coach. In other words, a list of coaches for whom you would always give 100%. You also need a list of coaches you would want, and who would want to join you, to help you become the same. In other words, coaches who would always give you 100%. Some of those names will be the same on both lists and they will probably make up the core of your staff should you ever get the rare chance to assemble one.

Broadening the scope of your (hopefully positive) reputation is a must here as well, so that when Players talk or GM's talk, or Owners talk, your name is a positive and desirable one in their minds. You don't want people saying they've heard some good things but don't really know who you are, or worse, they ask "who?" 

There's so much more that goes into it, but suffice it to say that it's a long hard road to get one of those 32 jobs, and you can do everything right to compete for one, but still never get the job offer. That's just life.