August 17, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Those are mostly individuals FEEL FREE TO PROVIDE A FACT OR TWO, HONEY.
August 17, 20214 yr 24 minutes ago, The Norseman said: As usual your hatred for Trump deludes all logical thought about political discourse and strategy. This is the biggest Achilles heel for Democrats right now. I think you will be reminded as soon as the mid terms that outside the urban centers and the west coast people align more with conservative methodology. says the guy who was so confident about Trump beating Biden.
August 17, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Toastrel said: FEEL FREE TO PROVIDE A FACT OR TWO, HONEY. The top 10 US companies alone spent $60M on Democrats in 2020 while only spending $18.2 on Republicans. Again, the Republicans are no longer the party of big business....and its not even close. Democrats Republicans Walmart 2.53 2.45 Amazon 10.39 1.85 Exxon Mobile 1.05 1.81 Apple 7.59 0.59 CVS 2.18 1.15 United Health 3.27 1.93 Berkshire Hathaway 2.67 2.77 AT&T 8.02 3.62 Anerisource Bergen 0.614 0.587 Alaphabet 21.82 1.43 60.134 18.187
August 17, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, The Norseman said: I don't want to use any numbers. Just trying to make sense of the poll. Seems like you have all seized on this one poll to justify your narrative that all Republicans are stupid, red hat wearing zealots. I'm just here to tell you that those people don't represent the greater party. But don't take my word for it....wait and see how the American people react to Biden's policies in the mid terms. The problem is...they do. I am a registered Republican, and I want you to be right. In the aftermath of January 6th, I had hope that the GOP leadership (McConnell, McCarthy, etc.) were finally done with Trump and his insanity...but then the voters spoke and they fell back into line. That was the great disappointment -- even after he lost the Presidency, the House and the Senate, the GOP rank and file continued to fear him and therefore acquiesce. Look at what has happened to people like Cheney, Kinzinger, etc. - they are being ostracized. The best hope for saving and reforming the GOP is for them to get routed in 2022, to show that continuing their obsequiousness to Trump is a losing strategy. The worst thing that could happen is for the GOP to retake the house while continuing to bow down to the Orange Idiot. The other thing at play is the party is shrinking as sane, traditional Republicans leave the party. This makes the zealots a greater percentage of what is left. It's the same reason you never want to be the last guy left in a fund that is liquidating -- the good, liquid stuff is sold first, and the remaining assets are the turds that can't be sold. That's what is happening now. As long as Trump continues to inspire fear in the GOP officials, mainly of a primary challenge, the party is lost to him. I'd love to see Murkowski, Cheney, etc. win their primaries and crush Trump supported zealots. That would give me hope.
August 17, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The problem is...they do. I am a registered Republican, and I want you to be right. In the aftermath of January 6th, I had hope that the GOP leadership (McConnell, McCarthy, etc.) were finally done with Trump and his insanity...but then the voters spoke and they fell back into line. That was the great disappointment -- even after he lost the Presidency, the House and the Senate, the GOP rank and file continued to fear him and therefore acquiesce. Look at what has happened to people like Cheney, Kinzinger, etc. - they are being ostracized. The best hope for saving and reforming the GOP is for them to get routed in 2022, to show that continuing their obsequiousness to Trump is a losing strategy. The worst thing that could happen is for the GOP to retake the house while continuing to bow down to the Orange Idiot. The other thing at play is the party is shrinking as sane, traditional Republicans leave the party. This makes the zealots a greater percentage of what is left. It's the same reason you never want to be the last guy left in a fund that is liquidating -- the good, liquid stuff is sold first, and the remaining assets are the turds that can't be sold. That's what is happening now. As long as Trump continues to inspire fear in the GOP officials, mainly of a primary challenge, the party is lost to him. I'd love to see Murkowski, Cheney, etc. win their primaries and crush Trump supported zealots. That would give me hope. I completely agree that they need to find a way to distance themselves from Trump to win back moderates but I think (and hope) that it will happen organically. The problem is that Trump is a money machine. As big business has now leaned heavily left, the Republicans can't walk away from that cash. Its a sick position to be in, but its reality. That being said. Is the Democrat situation all that much better? They are just as much held hostage by the progressive left as we are by the Trump right. The Republicans just need a much better marketing machine and a clear strategy, we are getting our asses kicked in messaging.
August 17, 20214 yr donald trump jr finishes near the top of favorability polls for repugs...i think that tells us all we need to know. https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-jr-ron-desantis-republican-poll-d4015e72-1714-47f1-ab06-156e3dd783ff.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-jr-desantis-gop-b1891550.html https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/564963-trump-jr-inches-past-desantis-as-most-popular-gop-figure-in-new-poll-axios
August 17, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I completely agree that they need to find a way to distance themselves from Trump to win back moderates but I think (and hope) that it will happen organically. The problem is that Trump is a money machine. As big business has now leaned heavily left, the Republicans can't walk away from that cash. Its a sick position to be in, but its reality. That being said. Is the Democrat situation all that much better? They are just as much held hostage by the progressive left as we are by the Trump right. The Republicans just need a much better marketing machine and a clear strategy, we are getting our asses kicked in messaging. Yeah, except it’s way different. Biden is a moderate Dem and so is Schumer fwiw. The strongest Trump supporters in the Republican party are looney tunes folks like MTG and Matt Gaetz.
August 17, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Yeah, except it’s way different. Biden is a moderate Dem and so is Schumer fwiw. The strongest Trump supporters in the Republican party are looney tunes folks like MTG and Matt Gaetz. Matt Gaetz = AOC...not Mitch Mconnell. The periphery of the right is gross...but no more whacko that the periphery of the left imo.
August 17, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I completely agree that they need to find a way to distance themselves from Trump to win back moderates but I think (and hope) that it will happen organically. The problem is that Trump is a money machine. As big business has now leaned heavily left, the Republicans can't walk away from that cash. Its a sick position to be in, but its reality. That being said. Is the Democrat situation all that much better? They are just as much held hostage by the progressive left as we are by the Trump right. The Republicans just need a much better marketing machine and a clear strategy, we are getting our asses kicked in messaging. Not sure how their messaging could get any better. Modern Republicans have the most effective messaging machine in US history and it's not even close. One mention on Tucker Carlson and a talking point is believed and repeated by tens of millions of Americans, even if it's a 180 degree reversal of Republican ideology/the talking points of the day before. It's honestly one of the most impressive feats I've ever seen. Republicans don't need better messaging, they need an actual consistent set of principals.
August 17, 20214 yr Just now, The Norseman said: Matt Gaetz = AOC...not Mitch McConnel. The periphery of the right is gross...but no more whacko that the periphery of the left imo. You missed the point. Gaetz is a huge Trump supporter while AOC doesn’t support Biden. She’s in Club Bernie.
August 17, 20214 yr 11 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I completely agree that they need to find a way to distance themselves from Trump to win back moderates but I think (and hope) that it will happen organically. The problem is that Trump is a money machine. As big business has now leaned heavily left, the Republicans can't walk away from that cash. Its a sick position to be in, but its reality. That being said. Is the Democrat situation all that much better? They are just as much held hostage by the progressive left as we are by the Trump right. The Republicans just need a much better marketing machine and a clear strategy, we are getting our asses kicked in messaging. You misspelled magically 8 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: donald trump jr finishes near the top of favorability polls for repugs...i think that tells us all we need to know. https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-jr-ron-desantis-republican-poll-d4015e72-1714-47f1-ab06-156e3dd783ff.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-jr-desantis-gop-b1891550.html https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/564963-trump-jr-inches-past-desantis-as-most-popular-gop-figure-in-new-poll-axios You guys keep focusing on ONE POLL!
August 17, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Not sure how their messaging could get any better. Modern Republicans have the most effective messaging machine in US history and it's not even close. One mention on Tucker Carlson and a talking point is believed and repeated by tens of millions of Americans, even if it's a 180 degree reversal of Republican ideology/the talking points of the day before. It's honestly one of the most impressive feats I've ever seen. Republicans don't need better messaging, they need an actual consistent set of principals. The principals comment is fair. The party has a lot work to do in order to regain trust that they can deliver a better result in a way that is consistent with our national values. But I disagree on messaging. Even though the progressive left disagrees they rarely speak out of turn anymore. The Republicans are at war with themselves in the wake of Trump. That's good and that's healthy, but at some point they need to land on a clear direction and tow the line if they want to win elections.
August 17, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Matt Gaetz = AOC...not Mitch Mconnell. The periphery of the right is gross...but no more whacko that the periphery of the left imo. Totally, supporting renewable energy is just as crazy as supporting insurrection and thinking forest fires were caused by Jewish space lasers. Both sides! Both sides!
August 17, 20214 yr Author 13 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I completely agree that they need to find a way to distance themselves from Trump to win back moderates but I think (and hope) that it will happen organically. The problem is that Trump is a money machine. As big business has now leaned heavily left, the Republicans can't walk away from that cash. Its a sick position to be in, but its reality. That being said. Is the Democrat situation all that much better? They are just as much held hostage by the progressive left as we are by the Trump right. The Republicans just need a much better marketing machine and a clear strategy, we are getting our asses kicked in messaging. No they aren't, not even close. The majority of Democrats are on record rejecting most planks of the 'progressive left'. Joe Biden beat out a bunch of candidates that were to the left of him. And in multiple special elections more "progressive" backed candidates have been rejected by the most engaged Democratic voters (those who actually vote in special elections) To make a statement that there's some kind of equivalency between Trump and "the progressive left" in terms of their influence in the major parties is laughably wrong.
August 17, 20214 yr The far right had one of their guys elected President. A couple months ago a major poll found 30 percent of republican voters believe Trump is going to be magically reinstated sometime this year. The both sides thing doesn't apply here.
August 17, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: No they aren't, not even close. The majority of Democrats are on record rejecting most planks of the 'progressive left'. Joe Biden beat out a bunch of candidates that were to the left of him. And in multiple special elections more "progressive" backed candidates have been rejected by the most engaged Democratic voters (those who actually vote in special elections) To make a statement that there's some kind of equivalency between Trump and "the progressive left" in terms of their influence in the major parties is laughably wrong. Totally disagree. Biden pulled Harris up as VP to appease the progressive left and ensure their vote...even after she berated him in the primary. Biden also narrowly beat Bernie who was arguably screwed out of power by the party in the last two elections. The progressive left is a powerful force that pulls the Democrat party away from the mainstream. Seems like exactly what the Trump right it doing to me. 7 minutes ago, Boogyman said: The far right had one of their guys elected President. A couple months ago a major poll found 30 percent of republican voters believe Trump is going to be magically reinstated sometime this year. The both sides thing doesn't apply here. Do you have any idea how close Bernie was to becoming the candidate for the Democrat party in the last tow elections?
August 17, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Totally disagree. Biden pulled Harris up as VP to appease the progressive left and ensure their vote...even after she berated him in the primary. Biden also narrowly beat Bernie who was arguably screwed out of power by the party in the last two elections. The progressive left is a powerful force that pulls the Democrat party away from the mainstream. Seems like exactly what the Trump right it doing to me. ^he wants to to be true so bad
August 17, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, The Norseman said: The principals comment is fair. The party has a lot work to do in order to regain trust that they can deliver a better result in a way that is consistent with our national values. But I disagree on messaging. Even though the progressive left disagrees they rarely speak out of turn anymore. The Republicans are at war with themselves in the wake of Trump. That's good and that's healthy, but at some point they need to land on a clear direction and tow the line if they want to win elections. Trust me, I wish you were right, but the progressive left never shuts the F up.
August 17, 20214 yr 11 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Totally disagree. Biden pulled Harris up as VP to appease the progressive left and ensure their vote...even after she berated him in the primary. Biden also narrowly beat Bernie who was arguably screwed out of power by the party in the last two elections. The progressive left is a powerful force that pulls the Democrat party away from the mainstream. Seems like exactly what the Trump right it doing to me. Do you have any idea how close Bernie was to becoming the candidate for the Democrat party in the last tow elections? Yeah. A distant 2nd place. So? The far right spokesman was elected president. And a huge chunk of republican voters want or think he should still be president even though he lost.
August 17, 20214 yr When the far left has the masses of voters that the far right does I will worry more about them.
August 17, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, toolg said: The middle road is they support the policy while blind to Trump, ignorant of what he brought to the party, to what he stands for. So the problem is they are ignorant. He's right there are 74 million of them. I ask again -- is policy alone enough? Don't character and values matter, as well as a general concept of governance, for the leader of the free world? Would a Trump supporter vote for say, Charles Manson, if the "policies" were what they wanted over the democrat? Really?
August 17, 20214 yr 52 minutes ago, The Norseman said: The top 10 US companies alone spent $60M on Democrats in 2020 while only spending $18.2 on Republicans. Again, the Republicans are no longer the party of big business....and its not even close. Democrats Republicans Walmart 2.53 2.45 Amazon 10.39 1.85 Exxon Mobile 1.05 1.81 Apple 7.59 0.59 CVS 2.18 1.15 United Health 3.27 1.93 Berkshire Hathaway 2.67 2.77 AT&T 8.02 3.62 Anerisource Bergen 0.614 0.587 Alaphabet 21.82 1.43 60.134 18.187 I know you do not want to look at it, but it not as ONE SIDED as you like to pretend..
August 17, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, toolg said: The middle road is they support the policy while blind to Trump, ignorant of what he brought to the party, to what he stands for. So the problem is they are ignorant. He's right there are 74 million of them. That makes no sense. As you don't just get the policies, you also get the lack of character, the corruptness, the transactional selfishness, the chaos and inability to lead when a crisis happens. Are people really that dumb that they would in effect elect a neophyte juvenile, with no sense of governing, no sense of history and no decorum, simply to get lower taxes and anti-abortion judges? I mean -- really? That's absurd. Elect your congressman for that -- not the leader of the free world.
August 17, 20214 yr 45 minutes ago, The Norseman said: That being said. Is the Democrat situation all that much better? They are just as much held hostage by the progressive left as we are by the Trump right. How so? I have yet to see medicare for all/gov't provided healthcare. I have yet to see police being defunded everywhere. I have yet to see abortion on demand. No - it's not equivalent. The left wouldn't put into office someone like Trump (with his lack of morals, empathy, intellectual curiosity, etc.), just to get policies passed that they liked. That's the difference. The right will allow themselves to be used (by the office holder) and also use that office-holder, to get what they want. Torpedoes be damned.
August 17, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, caesar said: That makes no sense. As you don't just get the policies, you also get the lack of character, the corruptness, the transactional selfishness, the chaos and inability to lead when a crisis happens. Are people really that dumb that they would in effect elect a neophyte juvenile, with no sense of governing, no sense of history and no decorum, simply to get lower taxes and anti-abortion judges? I mean -- really? That's absurd. Elect your congressman for that -- not the leader of the free world. That's what I said. 74 million people are that dumb.
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