August 17, 20214 yr 32 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I know you do not want to look at it, but it not as ONE SIDED as you like to pretend.. I never said it was one sided. I was responding to @Gannan comment that big business is in bed with Republican's because they manipulate the tax code. Also, the trend is shifting more and more blue over time. In 2020 Goldman Sachs gave 3M to Democrats and 1.68M to Republicans. Your data is 4 years old.
August 17, 20214 yr Author 19 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Totally disagree. Biden pulled Harris up as VP to appease the progressive left and ensure their vote...even after she berated him in the primary. Biden also narrowly beat Bernie who was arguably screwed out of power by the party in the last two elections. The progressive left is a powerful force that pulls the Democrat party away from the mainstream. Seems like exactly what the Trump right it doing to me. That you think Harris was somehow playing to the progressive left is hilarious. 21 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Do you have any idea how close Bernie was to becoming the candidate for the Democrat party in the last tow elections? .. not close at all. you could argue maybe that 2016 was "closer", but Hillary still won by 12 pts and by much more when you consider superdelegates were basically all Hillary. The right has a vested interest in overstating the power that the "radical left" has within the Democratic party. And they've had a lot of success selling that to their base. That doesn't make it reality.
August 17, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: That you think Harris was somehow playing to the progressive left is hilarious. .. not close at all. you could argue maybe that 2016 was "closer", but Hillary still won by 12 pts and by much more when you consider superdelegates were basically all Hillary. The right has a vested interest in overstating the power that the "radical left" has within the Democratic party. And they've had a lot of success selling that to their base. That doesn't make it reality. Just as the left has a vested interest in overstating the power of the Trump right. Besides, Bernie was winning in 2016 until Wasserman-Shultz got involved at the party level. Are you suggesting that Harris is mainstream?
August 17, 20214 yr Bernie had a legitimate shot in 2016 because the rest of the party laid down to Hillary Clinton, a really bad choice for POTUS. Why do you think Trump won in 2016? (And he still lost the popular vote to her!)
August 17, 20214 yr 11 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: That you think Harris was somehow playing to the progressive left is hilarious. .. not close at all. you could argue maybe that 2016 was "closer", but Hillary still won by 12 pts and by much more when you consider superdelegates were basically all Hillary. The right has a vested interest in overstating the power that the "radical left" has within the Democratic party. And they've had a lot of success selling that to their base. That doesn't make it reality. Trumpbots are impervious to facts. Maybe norse will believe it if you post it on parler.
August 17, 20214 yr Just now, toolg said: Bernie had a legitimate shot in 2016 because the rest of the party laid down to Hillary Clinton, a really bad choice for POTUS. Why do you think Trump won in 2016? (And he still lost the popular vote to her!) Also, Trump, you know...actually won the nomination and the Presidency. But somehow the far left, which can't win a special election in Ohio, is just as powerful.
August 17, 20214 yr Author 1 minute ago, The Norseman said: Just as the left has a vested interest in overstating the power of the Trump right. Besides, Bernie was winning in 2016 until Wasserman-Shultz got involved at the party level. Are you suggesting that Harris is mainstream? But the left ISN'T overstating the power of Trump. McCarthy has a permanent suite in Mar-a-Lago. I give McConnell some credit for tonally distancing himself a bit, but he also hasn't emphatically slapped him down to reclaim the party. Trump still leads everybody in 2024 polling among Republicans. And contenders not named Trump have been very careful not to step on his toes. The fact that there are multiple Trump 2024 flags within a few miles of my house shows he's still very much in the minds of voters who believe he won in 2020. You WANT to believe that the Republican party, and more precisely the Republican voting base does not go as Trump goes. But you are very much mistaken, and it's not democrats that are saying it: it's Republicans.
August 17, 20214 yr Wait. So are we arguing if Trump represents the lunatic fringe of the right, rather than the mainstream? Trump is crazy, yes. But he's still the face of the party. Who will change it?
August 17, 20214 yr It's just one poll, guys... Less than a year after a pro-Trump mob stormed the US Capitol, nearly half of Republican voters (47%) say that "a time will come when patriotic Americans have to take the law into their own hands," per a new nationwide survey by George Washington University's School of Media and Public Affairs. The poll also found extremely low levels of trust among Republicans when it comes to elections — 82% said it's "hard to trust the results of elections when so many people will vote for anyone who offers a handout." Only 15% of Democrats were on the same page. Echoing other recent polls on the 2020 election, the survey found that just 20% of Republicans were confident in the 2020 election results as compared to over 90% of Democrats. https://www.businessinsider.com/47-percent-gop-voters-patriots-take-law-own-hands-poll-2021-7
August 17, 20214 yr Author https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/21/trump-desantis-survey-500429 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/12/trump-pac-iowa-2024-504294 https://www.newsweek.com/poll-shows-donald-trump-leading-2024-gop-field-more-30-points-desantis-second-1611620 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-easily-wins-cpac-2024-gop-presidential-nomination-straw-poll https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/564116-poll-trump-leads-2024-gop-primary-trailed-by-pence-desantis Democrats aren't "overstating" anything about Trump's hold on the party. The voters are.
August 17, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, toolg said: Wait. So are we arguing if Trump represents the lunatic fringe of the right, rather than the mainstream? Trump is crazy, yes. But he's still the face of the party. Who will change it? That's the primary concern. I can't identify anyone rising through the ranks who can seize leadership of the party from him. Maybe Tim Scott? But he has been kissing the ring lately as he kicks off his 2022 campaign. Haley is done. DeSantis is just a slightly smarter version of Trump. The honorable people in the GOP (e.g., Romney) are irrelevant at this point.
August 17, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: But the left ISN'T overstating the power of Trump. McCarthy has a permanent suite in Mar-a-Lago. I give McConnell some credit for tonally distancing himself a bit, but he also hasn't emphatically slapped him down to reclaim the party. Trump still leads everybody in 2024 polling among Republicans. And contenders not named Trump have been very careful not to step on his toes. The fact that there are multiple Trump 2024 flags within a few miles of my house shows he's still very much in the minds of voters who believe he won in 2020. You WANT to believe that the Republican party, and more precisely the Republican voting base does not go as Trump goes. But you are very much mistaken, and it's not democrats that are saying it: it's Republicans. Hi
August 17, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: But the left ISN'T overstating the power of Trump. McCarthy has a permanent suite in Mar-a-Lago. I give McConnell some credit for tonally distancing himself a bit, but he also hasn't emphatically slapped him down to reclaim the party. Trump still leads everybody in 2024 polling among Republicans. And contenders not named Trump have been very careful not to step on his toes. The fact that there are multiple Trump 2024 flags within a few miles of my house shows he's still very much in the minds of voters who believe he won in 2020. You WANT to believe that the Republican party, and more precisely the Republican voting base does not go as Trump goes. But you are very much mistaken, and it's not democrats that are saying it: it's Republicans. I don't know where I've ever said that Trump wasn't powerful or that he didn't hold significant power over the party. I see that just as clearly as you do. I think the Republicans have a steep hill to climb to keep the Trump crowd engaged (they need the votes) and find appeal again with the moderates. Where I disagree is on the percentage of the party that is dead loyal to Trump and want him reelected. This forum seems to think that's the overwhelming majority. I happen to think that there are a lot of Republican's out there like myself who want to party to take a different path. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been talking to a lot of them and I think they'll show up in the mid terms.
August 17, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: It's just one poll, guys... Less than a year after a pro-Trump mob stormed the US Capitol, nearly half of Republican voters (47%) say that "a time will come when patriotic Americans have to take the law into their own hands," per a new nationwide survey by George Washington University's School of Media and Public Affairs. The poll also found extremely low levels of trust among Republicans when it comes to elections — 82% said it's "hard to trust the results of elections when so many people will vote for anyone who offers a handout." Only 15% of Democrats were on the same page. Echoing other recent polls on the 2020 election, the survey found that just 20% of Republicans were confident in the 2020 election results as compared to over 90% of Democrats. https://www.businessinsider.com/47-percent-gop-voters-patriots-take-law-own-hands-poll-2021-7 Just curious...but what was the democrats faith in elections after 2016?
August 17, 20214 yr Must be another wrong poll. All of them must be outliers. There can't be any other explanation... The poll, which sampled Wisconsin registered voters, found 31% of respondents said they are "not very or not at all confident” in the accuracy of the November 2020 election conducted in Wisconsin, while 67% said they are "very or somewhat confident” in the election’s accuracy. Doubt about the election’s accuracy is highest among Republicans, 71% of whom said they aren’t confident in the results. Twenty-nine percent of Republicans said they are confident. https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/marquette-poll-nearly-1-in-3-wisconsinites-doubt-presidential-election-results/article_db41ea75-c5c4-57fa-b491-3ca2c7098db0.html
August 17, 20214 yr Just now, The Norseman said: Just curious...but what was the democrats faith in elections after 2016? It appears to have been just strong enough to avoid an attempt at overrunning the capital and installing Hillary Clinton as queen for life.
August 17, 20214 yr 42 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I happen to think that there are a lot of Republican's out there like myself who want to party to take a different path. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been talking to a lot of them and I think they'll show up in the mid terms. I happen to think everybody here wants Republicans to take a different path than Trump. 40 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Just curious...but what was the democrats faith in elections after 2016? Pretty good. They flipped the House in 2018. And the Presidency in 2020. Through elections.
August 17, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, Boogyman said: It appears to have been just strong enough to avoid an attempt at overrunning the capital and installing Hillary Clinton as queen for life. Yet not quite strong enough to avoid claiming the entire election was fraudulent due to Trump's collusion with the Russians and immediately calling for impeachment proceedings.
August 17, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Just curious...but what was the democrats faith in elections after 2016? Cool whatboutism, bro, but no amount of deflecting and false equivalence is gonna dig your out of the hole you're burying yourself in. If you got some poll results that says the 2016 election was in anyway even remotely comparable, then post them, slappy. But I'm sure you'll come up empty on that one, probably because Hillary didn't falsely claim she won for months, even after radicalizing her followers in a brutal attack on our nation's capitol as congress tried to certify the election for her opponent. Got any other witty retorts or are you ready you give up and crawl back in your hole for another 3 months?
August 17, 20214 yr Just now, The Norseman said: Yet not quite strong enough to avoid claiming the entire election was fraudulent due to Trump's collusion with the Russians and immediately calling for impeachment proceedings. This is why you'll continue to lose elections for the foreseeable future. Lack of self-awareness and utter inability to admit fault. There will be zero motivation for political reform so long as you idiots keep pretending the other side is just as bad.
August 17, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Yet not quite strong enough to avoid claiming the entire election was fraudulent due to Trump's collusion with the Russians and immediately calling for impeachment proceedings. I happen to think that there are a lot of Republican's out there like myself who want to party to take a different path. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been talking to a lot of them and I think they'll show up in the mid terms Which amounted to a big nothing burger. BTW, statistically speaking, 3 of every 10 of those Republicans you say you have been speaking to STILL still think Trump is going to be reinstated this year.
August 17, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I don't know where I've ever said that Trump wasn't powerful or that he didn't hold significant power over the party. I see that just as clearly as you do. I think the Republicans have a steep hill to climb to keep the Trump crowd engaged (they need the votes) and find appeal again with the moderates. Where I disagree is on the percentage of the party that is dead loyal to Trump and want him reelected. This forum seems to think that's the overwhelming majority. I happen to think that there are a lot of Republican's out there like myself who want to party to take a different path. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been talking to a lot of them and I think they'll show up in the mid terms. You are, per usual.
August 17, 20214 yr 20 minutes ago, Boogyman said: Which amounted to a big nothing burger. Despite the constant, 4 year long drumbeat of "Russia Collusion" at every level of the Democrat party and every major US news media outlet.
August 17, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said: The right has a vested interest in overstating the power that the "radical left" has within the Democratic party. And they've had a lot of success selling that to their base. That doesn't make it reality. That's because they use Liberal as a slur, and call all Democrats Liberals. To them, there are no Moderate or Conservative Democrats, Just Liberals. It works for their base pretty well.
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