2 hours ago, Eagleblood52 said:

What’s dumb?...the fact that over the last twenty years I’ve watched this FO, and other FO’s here pass on high draft picks, and either pick someone like JJAW, instead of DK metcalf...over and over again..I’m Fing sick of it...just so they don’t have to pay for a superstar player...

That's dumb.  You thinking the front office drafts poorly to avoid paying players is plain ignorant.  Do you know how we got into this cap hell?  Want to guess?  Absolutely not by refusing to get good players and pay them.  

8 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yes if Smith/Waddle turn out to be the next Larry Fitzgerald/Tyreek Hill.

As prospects this trade is a win, who knows how their careers shake out.

True, but that could be said any time. Why not trade into the second round get even more picks and hope that Moore or Bateman turn out to be Fitz or Hill? Because statistically, high level players are drafted in the top ten spots of a draft. Mathematically, if you're looking for a playmaker staying at six made the most sense. People are projecting Chase to go that high because the hours and hours of film study they put in provide them evidence supporting that he is that good. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, kentwo said:

Not if Chase turns out to be the next Julio Jones. 

How many Super Bowls has Julio won?  OBJ?  Moss?  Megatron?  One beast receiver does not make a team, especially when smart defensive coaches can negate them to an extent. 

1 minute ago, b_west3 said:

How many Super Bowls had Julio won?  OBJ?  Moss?  Megatron?  One beast receiver does not make a team, especially when smart defensive coaches can negate them to an extent. 

That is just dumb.

So you're telling me that you wouldn't want Julio, OBJ, Moss, Megatron (basically three of the best WRs to ever play the game) on your team? 

2 minutes ago, kentwo said:

That is just dumb.

So you're telling me that you wouldn't want Julio, OBJ, Moss, Megatron (basically three of the best WRs to ever play the game) on your team? 

Sure...it'd make for a ton of fun in the regular season lol. 

5 minutes ago, kentwo said:

True, but that could be said any time. Why not trade into the second round get even more picks and hope that Moore or Bateman turn out to be Fitz or Hill? Because statistically, high level players are drafted in the top ten spots of a draft. Mathematically, if you're looking for a playmaker staying at six made the most sense. People are projecting Chase to go that high because the hours and hours of film study they put in provide them evidence supporting that he is that good. 

 

 

That's why when you have a value trade with the possibility of picking similar players, you take it. As prospects, Chase and Smith and Waddle are not far apart enough to warrant passing on an extra 1st.

Just now, D-Shiznit said:

That's why when you have a value trade with the possibility of picking similar players, you take it. As prospects, Chase and Smith and Waddle are not far apart enough to warrant passing on an extra 1st.

First, it is your opinion that they are close in projected performance. Secondly, now you are relying on luck that one of them fall to you. So instead of missing out on the next Julio, you have a a good chance of missing out on all three of them.  

3 minutes ago, b_west3 said:

Sure...it'd make for a ton of fun in the regular season lol. 

Yep. Lost all cred there. That's why the Eagles suck now, no elite players at any position. 

4 minutes ago, kentwo said:

First, it is your opinion that they are close in projected performance. Secondly, now you are relying on luck that one of them fall to you. So instead of missing out on the next Julio, you have a a good chance of missing out on all three of them. 

Luck goes both ways, Chase could have been gone before 6 too. The same experts you earlier credited to Chase's high stock, most if not all have Smith and Waddle in their top 10 overall, some even have Smith ahead of Chase, so it's an opinion that is widely shared.

26 minutes ago, Eagleblood52 said:

And the players talent and ceiling are assessed and then placed in their draft position....so when you have position 6...you do not trade back to 12 with hopes of the following year being better, when you have no idea who is going to be at those picks...

I don’t like the trade back move. It’s Howie trying to be the smartest guy in the room again. I think it will turn out poorly. 

13 hours ago, kentwo said:

I think they believed Wilson could be their guy, but once 49ers moved up, they lost any and all chance of getting him. 

As for Bama, Smith and Waddle declined to work out so maybe they already felt they had enough tape on them and didn't need to see those guys stand on the sidelines the whole pro-day. One positive is that maybe this means they're not interested in Mac Jones. 

Even if the guys declined workouts they could have also looked at Surtain jr or al least spoken to coaches about those receivers. History is showing the Eagles don’t even look at Bama players for some reason, 

10 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Luck goes both ways, Chase could have been gone before 6 too. The same experts you earlier credited to Chase's high stock, most if not all have Smith and Waddle in their top 10 overall, some even have Smith ahead of Chase, so it's an opinion that is widely shared.

Luck does go both ways, which is why eliminating as much of it as possible is a good idea. And while Smith/Waddle may project in the top ten of players, their playing style also overlaps some of the Eagle's current WRs. While Chase have physical attributes that project as a true X. 

30 minutes ago, b_west3 said:

That's dumb.  You thinking the front office drafts poorly to avoid paying players is plain ignorant.  Do you know how we got into this cap hell?  Want to guess?  Absolutely not by refusing to get good players and pay them.  

We got into cap hell because we had a qb and then some dumb ass thought I’ll just draft another mobile qb to win us another big game....no mobile Qb has won a Super Bowl..they get figured out or they get hurt. That’s dumb. And why we are in cap hell...shoulda traded hurtz...stop over paying for aging veterans and for F sake stop reaching in the draft

1 hour ago, kentwo said:

People are projecting Chase to go that high because the hours and hours of film study they put in provide them evidence supporting that he is that good. 

"Film!, I don't need no stinking film!" said Howie.

39 minutes ago, NVeagle said:

"Film!, I don't need no stinking film!" said Howie.

What's film anyway? Just let the teams before you pick good players and then say those were the guys you wanted anyway. 

I wanted the flashy, big time pick, after all the freekin drama this past year. But it's a rebuild, so you get as much as you can as high as you can. Moving down... in the Eagles current situation, is not a bad thing. But I will miss getting that big, flashy ass player. 

The eagles are trying to shed salary, shed older players who don't produce to their contracts, and piling up draft picks this year and next year......with the ability to use some of the later round picks to move up in the earlier rounds.   

It's exactly what you'd want a team to do when they are "rebuilding".

IMO, there's 3 things that can make this all work:

1- Roseman listens to the scouts and the coaches and gets players the coaches feel they can get the most out of.

2- Sirianni and his staff, which are recognized as very good with developing young players, can actually to just that.  

3- Hurts develops into a productive QB.

If any of those 3 things DON'T HAPPEN, then this "rebuild" will take a lot longer.

Roseman has potentially 3 1st round picks next year to move up for a QB if Hurts doesn't pan out and the eagles should be in a much better cap position over the next 2 years.  

This year, it's easy for most to say they're going to suck. But nobody knows.....player development is a hard thing to predict.  And the NFC East is a mystery......

I just want to see Hurts turn into a 4 look,  pass first QB that can use his legs to buy time and occasionally take off.....I don't want him to be a league leader in QB rushing yards.

I want to see the young receivers develop.  Good routes, create separation, minimal drops and good YAC.

I want to see the eagles add talent to the defensive back 7 and be fast and aggressive.  

And for God's sake, a BIG reduction in injuries.

 

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

Value wise, they get 2 firsts for 1. Just moving back 6 spots.

Plus moving a 5th to a 4th. 

So depends on which is more valuable: a guy they would've got at 6, or 2 guys: #12 plus the 1st next year. 

Correct - however, the post I was responding to neglected that analysis.  To just say moving back is worth points without factoring in the extra first is incomplete.

2 hours ago, Eagleblood52 said:

We got into cap hell because we had a qb and then some dumb ass thought I’ll just draft another mobile qb to win us another big game....no mobile Qb has won a Super Bowl..

Patrick Mahomes isn't mobile?

Russell Wilson isn't mobile?

John Elway wasn't mobile?

Terry Bradshaw wasn't mobile?

Roger Staubauch wasn't mobile?

21 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

I wanted the flashy, big time pick, after all the freekin drama this past year. But it's a rebuild, so you get as much as you can as high as you can. Moving down... in the Eagles current situation, is not a bad thing. But I will miss getting that big, flashy ass player. 

At 12 because of all the QBs selected..someone will slide. Someone People were dreaming of ...like a top WR or CB will be there. I do not want to praise Howie on Tate..because that is a grounds for crucifixion..but if the top QB they wanted was not going to be there...moving back was a shrewd move. The only  dilemma I see if Waddle or Smithy WRs,  or Surtain and Farley CBs who could be still on the board..and Howie selects one of the top OTs..Tate will explode. People Love skill positions! But at 12 there are plenty of good players including OT who will do more for this team than another skill player. We will see how it turns out..But Selecting another DE, DT, OT,G, CB, S, LB is what rebuilding the team is all about. I Love top WR and RBs..but sometimes you have to rebuild and having more picks and possibly 3 1st round picks next year..will do that.

9 minutes ago, Traveler Vic said:

At 12 because of all the QBs selected..someone will slide. Someone People were dreaming of ...like a top WR or CB will be there. I do not want to praise Howie on Tate..because that is a grounds for crucifixion..but if the top QB they wanted was not going to be there...moving back was a shrewd move. The only  dilemma I see if Waddle or Smithy WRs,  or Surtain and Farley CBs who could be still on the board..and Howie selects one of the top OTs..Tate will explode. People Love skill positions! But at 12 there are plenty of good players including OT who will do more for this team than another skill player. We will see how it turns out..But Selecting another DE, DT, OT,G, CB, S, LB is what rebuilding the team is all about. I Love top WR and RBs..but sometimes you have to rebuild and having more picks and possibly 3 1st round picks next year..will do that.

I'm expecting an undersized pass rusher who was selected because he has a great "motor" and who still would have been there at the end of the first round

7 hours ago, DBW said:

So you really think that the egotistical Howie would let SF move up over him and actually HELP it happen by working out a contingency plan with the dolphins to also allow them to move up over him? That’s ridiculous 😂 it’s clear the dolphins played both sides and won.  They banged their GF and her mom in the same night on this one. 

You have more foresight than Howie, then. Congrats 

Yes I do. Do you really think the Eagles and Dolphins managed to iron out a trade in the 10 minutes after the 49ers trade. That’s ridiculous. This trade was clearly in place before it happened.

Dolphins got a good result, but we got an extra first round pick for moving down from 6 to 12. Plus moved back into the forth. If you can’t see what good value that is then I can’t help you.

 

Had some time to digest this and sleep on it. Hate to be so ''down the middle'' on this. However, while I personally wouldn't have made this move I get why they did. They are a rebuilding team and having more high quality picks is a good thing. They also got really good value and set themselves up to have three first round picks next year. I would have stayed put and tried to get a true all-pro talent in Chase or Pitts. Just have to hope that whomever they end up with at 12 ends up being really good. They should get someone like Smith, Waddle, Slater, or one of the top three corners which is good. Parsons would be a home run but for obvious reasons I don't see that happening.

One thing is certain, people get way too emotional and don't put much thought into evaluating moves this team makes, especially coming off of the horrible season they had. You don't have to like what they did but all of the ''this is terrible, what a dysfunctional franchise'' comments are ridiculous. There is a pretty clear plan that is going on. Do they deserve the benefit of the doubt in executing it, no, but there is an obvious plan.

Atleast we will see if Jalen Hurts will pan out or not for sure now..

 

Still bummed out that Eagles wont get a shot at Chase or Pitts..

 

One thing I feel good about, I don't think Tua will play well for Miami and with Fitz no longer there, expect the Dolphins to stink it up giving Eagles a high first rd pick in 22.  I am certain the Colts trade will not be a first round, Carson will play just below 75%..

 

If this is all Ammo for a Deshaun Watson trade, well then, I don't know what to say or think..

My only problem is we got the short end on value for the 6 pick... to only get a 4th but giving up the 5th to do it was not 

good value.  I believe we need the extra picks but needed earlier then a 4 or not given the 5th

22 minutes ago, Procus said:

I'm expecting an undersized pass rusher who was selected because he has a great "motor" and who still would have been there at the end of the first round

Being a pessimist is Healthy, but in no way will it affect who really is on the board. If you look strictly at Position values and the needs of the team..picking Miami DE or Perkins DE is not the best use of resources as they are both underpowered and undersized. Not a good DE class. However a top CB or OT will do a lot for the defense or offense. I am slightly worried about the top WR not being durable in the NFL.