4 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I’m honestly not sure what my wife read about it.  She’s an academic though.  So it wasn’t just some cuckoo conspiracy theory.

We occasionally vacation with another family who are both doctors.  That’s who validated my wife’s concerns about it.  

Could've been this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5688202/

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Could've been this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5688202/

Maybe.  I honestly have no idea.  I’ll add this:  once my wife has made up her mind about something, I don’t really bother trying to change it.  Losing battle

37 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I’m honestly not sure what my wife read about it.  She’s an academic though.  So it wasn’t just some cuckoo conspiracy theory.

We occasionally vacation with another family who are both doctors.  That’s who validated my wife’s concerns about it.  

I did a lot of research on the HPV vaccine through residency man, I genuinely don't know of anything that I would consider a "legitimate medical concern" that outweighs the benefits of getting it.  I'm not going to pretend vaccines have no side effects cause they do (eg MMR and increased risk of encephalitis) but HPV really is one of the more benign ones out there based on the data available.  I won't push it any further cause I don't want to talk about someone's wife or friends, other than to say I really hope you reconsider in the future.

32 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Could've been this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5688202/

Observational study of 150 people trying to demonstrate temporal relationship? Meh.  Incidence of complex Regional Pain syndrome and orthostatic hypertension both peak in adolescence regardless so they would need a LOT more than just a temporal relationship to a vaccine given in the beginning of adolescence.  If they were finding a relationship quickly after the shot maybe I would buy it warrants further study but: "The time to onset after the first vaccine dose ranged from 1 to 1532 days (average 319.7 ± 349.3 days)".  Trying to argue for a temporal relationship to the vaccine when your range goes over 4 years is a huge stretch.  There methods are also very very shaky "We used newly defined diagnostic criteria for accurate inclusion of patients who experienced adverse symptoms after human papillomavirus vaccination; these diagnostic criteria were created for this study, and thus their validity and reliability have not been established." For example they marked kids with relatively low age matched IQs as being impaired without doing any kind of evaluation of that kid prior to vaccines to use as a baseline which is just bonkers.

I know you personally are not advocating for the study, just pointing it out. But man this is a such a comically bad one that it got me riled up.

It's 2020 so I do not hold out a lot of hope that flu season will be any better than years past.  We can't even wear masks correctly and some won't wear them at all.  My conclusion to this study, there will be flu.

I got my shot Monday.  It's free, a no brainer, and other than a slight bruise at the injection sight I feel fine.  I have never suffered any sort of side effect from it in all the years I've been getting one------INCLUDING getting the flu.  Ever. 

15 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I did a lot of research on the HPV vaccine through residency man, I genuinely don't know of anything that I would consider a "legitimate medical concern" that justifies someone not getting it.  I'm not going to pretend vaccines have no side effects cause they do (eg MMR and encephalitis) but HPV really is one of the more benign ones out there based on the data available.  I won't push it any further cause I don't want to talk about someone's wife or friends, other than to say I really hope you reconsider in the future.

Observational study of 150 people trying to demonstrate temporal relationship? Meh.  Incidence of complex Regional Pain syndrome and orthostatic hypertension both peak in adolescence regardless so they would need a LOT more than just a temporal relationship to a vaccine given in the beginning of adolescence.  If they were finding a relationship quickly after the shot maybe I would buy it warrants further study but: "The time to onset after the first vaccine dose ranged from 1 to 1532 days (average 319.7 ± 349.3 days)".  Trying to argue for a temporal relationship to the vaccine when your range goes over 4 years is a huge stretch.  There methods are also very very shaky "We used newly defined diagnostic criteria for accurate inclusion of patients who experienced adverse symptoms after human papillomavirus vaccination; these diagnostic criteria were created for this study, and thus their validity and reliability have not been established." For example they marked kids with relatively low age matched IQs as being impaired without doing any kind of evaluation of that kid prior to vaccines to use as a baseline which is just bonkers.

I know you personally are not advocating for the study, just pointing it out. But man this is a such a bad one that it got me riled up.

Definitely not, just was trying to figure out where this other doctor might've been coming from. The HPV vaccine isn't something I'm very familiar with, haven't had to cross that bridge yet, but I doubt we'd have any reservations about it when the time comes.

7 minutes ago, DiPros said:

It's 2020 so I do not hold out a lot of hope that flu season will be any better than years past.  We can't even wear masks correctly and some won't wear them at all.  My conclusion to this study, there will be flu.

I got my shot Monday.  It's free, a no brainer, and other than a slight bruise at the injection sight I feel fine.  I have never suffered any sort of side effect from it in all the years I've been getting one------INCLUDING getting the flu.  Ever. 

I had a reaction to it one year a while back where I basically had very mild flu-like symptoms in a very short period of time. Headache, then fever, then muscle aches, and then chills all in a span of like 20 min. Felt super weird, but then it passed and I was fine.

9 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I had a reaction to it one year a while back where I basically had very mild flu-like symptoms in a very short period of time. Headache, then fever, then muscle aches, and then chills all in a span of like 20 min. Felt super weird, but then it passed and I was fine.

Are you sure that wasn't an acid flashback?  That seems awfully fast for symptoms to run their course.

1 hour ago, VanHammersly said:

I get reluctance to put complete trust in someone who's injecting something into your body (or especially your kids body), but the problem with all of it is that you either trust medical professionals or you trust random internet sources/people on Facebook.  Given the two options, I'll trust a doctor.

If you have a good doctor then yeah trust them for sure. Like anything else though not all medical professionals are the same. 

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I had a reaction to it one year a while back where I basically had very mild flu-like symptoms in a very short period of time. Headache, then fever, then muscle aches, and then chills all in a span of like 20 min. Felt super weird, but then it passed and I was fine.

Sounds like your immune system kicking in and doing it's thing.  I often wonder why they call that a side effect when it's really your body working to create an immunity.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Are you sure that wasn't an acid flashback?  That seems awfully fast for symptoms to run their course.

Norm MacDonald has a great bit on acid flashbacks. But no, never tried it. Anything that has that kind of permanence scares me.

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Definitely not, just was trying to figure out where this other doctor might've been coming from. The HPV vaccine isn't something I'm very familiar with, haven't had to cross that bridge yet, but I doubt we'd have any reservations about it when the time comes.

I certainly can't make the decision for anyone else.  But yeah personally I'm (obviously) a big proponent.  Unlike, say the flu, it is highly effective if given prior to HPV exposure, and the side effect profile is relatively benign even compared to other vaccines.  The vague neuropathic symptoms are admittedly very difficult to evaluate, but I have yet to see any data that establishes any kind of solid connection to the HPV vaccine.

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Norm MacDonald has a great bit on acid flashbacks. But no, never tried it. Anything that has that kind of permanence scares me.

I did a ton of acid in high school, which was great at the time but it would scare the sheet out of me now.  I don't necessarily get flashbacks but if I'm watching a movie and someone's doing it, I get the slight feeling of being on acid.

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

I did a ton of acid in high school, which was great at the time but it would scare the sheet out of me now.  I don't necessarily get flashbacks but if I'm watching a movie and someone's doing it, I get the slight feeling of being on acid.

Tried Acid once, didn't to much for me, did not really like it.  Shrooms though, I have eaten a ton of shrooms.  Loved it every time.

6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

If you have a good doctor then yeah trust them for sure. Like anything else though not all medical professionals are the same. 

I really noticed in the past year or so that some of the nuttier GOP congressman are in the medical field.  Weirds me out a bit.

1 hour ago, mr_hunt said:

is/was there anything to the theory that folks who have gotten the flu shot experience more serious covid symptoms if they get it?     

I thought it was the opposite?

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

I may be Indian, but I actually didn't go to Medical School. Which makes me trust those who did. And also makes me a massive disappointment to my mother.

Man I hope you don't have a doctor sibling.

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

Man I hope you don't have a doctor sibling.

Nope. Brother in finance too. My mom is so ashamed.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

C'mon Van. I said the best, and you think I picked a white guy and not a fellow Indian?

that is Trump's physician btw.... some quack.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I thought it was the opposite?

They only similar theory I've seen, likely dubious, is that there might be a correlation with lesser symptoms in individuals who get covid and recently had recovered from another coronavirus, compared to individuals who got covid and didn't have any other notable symptoms prior.

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

that is Trump's physician btw.... some quack.

Oh...I am aware.

Just now, vikas83 said:

Nope. Brother in finance too. My mom is so ashamed.

I was imagining a family gathering where your doctor brother who's some poor family practitioner barely making six figures and deep in student loan debt gets favored treatment while scowling at lowly Vikas who showed up in a Porche GT3...

"Why don't you go fetch some more masala tea for your very successful doctor brother, Vikas?"

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

They only similar theory I've seen, likely dubious, is that there might be a correlation with lesser symptoms in individuals who get covid and recently had recovered from another coronavirus, compared to individuals who got covid and didn't have any other notable symptoms prior.

Yeah I think that may have been what I was reading. People recently infected by a coronavirus distant-related to COVID-19 have antibodies that at least help combat COVID-19 infections and render them less severe than they might otherwise be. 

did vikas recite his own medical report to his doctor too? 

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

did vikas recite his own medical report to his doctor too? 

we need to get this to Vikas's mom.....

5 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

did vikas recite his own medical report to his doctor too?