People die everyday. How these excess deaths are not rationalized but instead politicized is just the way the world is now.  Think you are invisible?  One day when you lose a loved one to a sickness, or become sick yourself, it will become real.  No one gets out of here alive.  That is a fact. 
 

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

4,2,3,1,5

7 hours ago, Kz! said:

I'm in my 30s and in good shape. I'd rather not inject myself with something that's been cooked up in 8 months when normal vaccine development takes 10-15 years. But I encourage you to take multiple doses. 

Disparaging people with mental handicaps in multiple threads in a single day. The tolerant left, folks. 

3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

 

1 hour ago, Dawkins 20 said:

1, 5, 2, 3, 4

 

46 minutes ago, devpool said:

4,2,3,1,5

You’re both wrong. It’s 3, 4, 1, 2, 5

29 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 

Strangely there is no weekly update in Sweden for the first time since I've been looking and that's many months.

Hmmm...

Ok got it.  They missed adding a link on the normal web page.  Everything looks to have hit a plateau now.  Deaths and ICU patients are topping out at half the levels of the 1st wave.  If we don't get a new Xmas based bump we should be slowly coming off the 2nd wave over the next 4-6 weeks.

As for excess mortality rates, they have just gone to the excess side over the last two weeks after being negative since back in the June time frame.  This stat is going to be an interesting one to look back on when we get some more distance.  At first glance it looks like we had a large spike in excess mortality in mid March to mid May and then that spike resulted in lower numbers for next six months despite a 2nd wave starting in mid-September.  Too early to reach any conclusions here though.

Florida governor doing his part to spread coronavirus. Smdh 

 

2 minutes ago, Toty said:

2,5,3,1,4

10 minutes ago, Toty said:

Thank for the update and a lucid summary of things. Hard to come by these days.

Yeah, not many people are ready for a nuanced look at this thing I’m afraid. 

39 minutes ago, Toty said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but when I think about how this all went down I think I see how we could have dealt with this better - and how we could handle something like this in the future. 

Speaking strictly of the people that tend to die of the disease - which is a small portion of the population - most are older and/or already have health problems. We knew that early. Instead of closing businesses and schools, perhaps we could have worked to isolate the most vulnerable people from the rest of the population. Preemptively triage them somehow - maybe by booking entire hotels and providing special live in staff to help those who need care. Completely quarantine the nursing homes and LTC's. For the rest of the population, just mask and distancing restrictions. It would have been expensive but not as bad as the loss in economy that will be felt for years.

I don't know what the answers are but I know it is a complex equation if you really look at everything and do it right.  What I find close to ridiculous is anyone that claims they have "the answer".  Of course the longer this goes and the more we learn the better chance we have to provide a real nuanced analysis and to offer some possible best practice options.  As you say, we know a heck of a lot more now then we did back in March.

3 hours ago, toolg said:

Florida governor doing his part to spread coronavirus. Smdh 

 

DeSantis is a smaller version of Trump and his country is Florida. He's the biggest Trump nut sucker of them all. He's ineptitude of governing has been eye opening to say the least.

7 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

I don't know what the answers are but I know it is a complex equation if you really look at everything and do it right.  What I find close to ridiculous is anyone that claims they have "the answer".  Of course the longer this goes and the more we learn the better chance we have to provide a real nuanced analysis and to offer some possible best practice options.  As you say, we know a heck of a lot more now then we did back in March.

We have the answer: vaccine + masks + testing = end of pandemic 

And yes, distancing / hand washing / gathering limits are included when possible

On 12/11/2020 at 6:24 PM, JohnSnowsHair said:

4, 2, 1, 3 5

The ones who have no ass are down on the bottom (pun not intended). 

#4 is near perfectly proportional girl.

#2 is just a thicker version of her.

#1 has booty but not bust, but IMO ass before boobs.

#3 has bust but no booty so she is better than....

#5 who has neither. 

 

13 hours ago, Toty said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but when I think about how this all went down I think I see how we could have dealt with this better - and how we could handle something like this in the future. 

Speaking strictly of the people that tend to die of the disease - which is a small portion of the population - most are older and/or already have health problems. We knew that early. Instead of closing businesses and schools, perhaps we could have worked to isolate the most vulnerable people from the rest of the population. Preemptively triage them somehow - maybe by booking entire hotels and providing special live in staff to help those who need care. Completely quarantine the nursing homes and LTC's. For the rest of the population, just mask and distancing restrictions. It would have been expensive but not as bad as the loss in economy that will be felt for years.

Not having this guy running the country would have been super:

8 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

We have the answer: vaccine + masks + testing = end of pandemic 

And yes, distancing / hand washing / gathering limits are included when possible

Uhhh yeah, everyone knows that once the vaccines are widely spread the pandemic will end.  Literally everyone on the face of the earth minus the deniers get that.  That isn't the question.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/bob-good-congressman-elect-pandemic-phony-trump-rally-041251561.html

GOP Congressman-Elect Praises Maskless Trump Supporters: 'This Is A Phony Pandemic'

Looking out at the largely maskless throng of  attendees at a pro-Trump rally in Washington, D.C., on Saturday, Republican Congressman-elect Bob Good dismissed the coronavirus pandemic as "phony” and lauded the crowd as "a group of people that gets it.”

"I can’t tell you how great it is to look out there and see your faces,” said Good, who won Virginia’s 5th Congressional District seat last month. "This looks like a group of people that gets it. This is a phony pandemic.”

"It’s a serious virus, but it’s a virus, it’s not a pandemic,” continued Good, who was wearing a Trump 2020 hat but no mask.

Good’s remarks come as the United States reports record-breaking COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths. On Wednesday, at least 3,124 people in the U.S. died from the coronavirus. It was the first time the daily death toll has surpassed 3,000.

4 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Uhhh yeah, everyone knows that once the vaccines are widely spread the pandemic will end.  Literally everyone on the face of the earth minus the deniers get that.  That isn't the question.

 

You said we still had more to learn "to offer some best possible practice options." 

We already know the best possible practice options... vaccine + masks + testing = end of pandemic 

52 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You said we still had more to learn "to offer some best possible practice options." 

We already know the best possible practice options... vaccine + masks + testing = end of pandemic 

Your view of this is so limited.  You just can't bring yourself to see the big picture.

8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Your view of this is so limited.  You just can't bring yourself to see the big picture.

Oh ok

3,000 people are now dying every day in this nation.

Preventing the spread IS the big picture now.

If this nation took the virus seriously instead of turning masks into a political football, and earlier mitigation efforts were more successful at marginalizing the spread, we would have the luxury to talk bigger picture than just the impact of Covid spread - such as the economic impacts of policies on business, especially small business.

I don't think that's where we're at.

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

3,000 people are now dying every day in this nation.

Preventing the spread IS the big picture now.

If this nation took the virus seriously instead of turning masks into a political football, and earlier mitigation efforts were more successful at marginalizing the spread, we would have the luxury to talk bigger picture than just the impact of Covid spread - such as the economic impacts of policies on business, especially small business.

I don't think that's where we're at.

Yep. And yet what seems obvious and simple to some, apparently isn't quite so to others.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

3,000 people are now dying every day in this nation.

Preventing the spread IS the big picture now.

If this nation took the virus seriously instead of turning masks into a political football, and earlier mitigation efforts were more successful at marginalizing the spread, we would have the luxury to talk bigger picture than just the impact of Covid spread - such as the economic impacts of policies on business, especially small business.

I don't think that's where we're at.

 

So the discussion I was having with Toty was about everything and both going backward and forward in time.  The big picture is everything.  Short term, long term, old people, kids, those with underlying conditions, impact on hospital capacity, nursing home policy, super healthy people, economic relief, schools, opening/closing of businesses, max numbers of people, testing/tracing, vaccine development policies, leadership coordination, vaccine distribution, spread control, tactical measures, hospital procedures, unemployment, mental health, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.  COVID spread is front and center for sure but it is also within a context, it is dynamic in nature, goes in waves, affects different places differently depending on things like population density, etc. etc.  It also has both long term and short terms affects and impacts people very differently from individual to individual.  It is anything but simple and there is still a TON that we do not know.

Knocking out a regional, state wide, etc. spread is a CRUCIAL part of an any reasonable overall set of policy.  However, that should never ever be the only tool though it must always take precedent in phases and regions.

 

Do you think a place like say South Korea with relatively great testing/tracing etc. policies is only focused on spread control and has no other aspects in place in their strategic plan to deal with COVID?