3,000 people are now dying every day in this nation.

Preventing the spread IS the big picture now.

If this nation took the virus seriously instead of turning masks into a political football, and earlier mitigation efforts were more successful at marginalizing the spread, we would have the luxury to talk bigger picture than just the impact of Covid spread - such as the economic impacts of policies on business, especially small business.

I don't think that's where we're at.

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

3,000 people are now dying every day in this nation.

Preventing the spread IS the big picture now.

If this nation took the virus seriously instead of turning masks into a political football, and earlier mitigation efforts were more successful at marginalizing the spread, we would have the luxury to talk bigger picture than just the impact of Covid spread - such as the economic impacts of policies on business, especially small business.

I don't think that's where we're at.

Yep. And yet what seems obvious and simple to some, apparently isn't quite so to others.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

3,000 people are now dying every day in this nation.

Preventing the spread IS the big picture now.

If this nation took the virus seriously instead of turning masks into a political football, and earlier mitigation efforts were more successful at marginalizing the spread, we would have the luxury to talk bigger picture than just the impact of Covid spread - such as the economic impacts of policies on business, especially small business.

I don't think that's where we're at.

 

So the discussion I was having with Toty was about everything and both going backward and forward in time.  The big picture is everything.  Short term, long term, old people, kids, those with underlying conditions, impact on hospital capacity, nursing home policy, super healthy people, economic relief, schools, opening/closing of businesses, max numbers of people, testing/tracing, vaccine development policies, leadership coordination, vaccine distribution, spread control, tactical measures, hospital procedures, unemployment, mental health, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.  COVID spread is front and center for sure but it is also within a context, it is dynamic in nature, goes in waves, affects different places differently depending on things like population density, etc. etc.  It also has both long term and short terms affects and impacts people very differently from individual to individual.  It is anything but simple and there is still a TON that we do not know.

Knocking out a regional, state wide, etc. spread is a CRUCIAL part of an any reasonable overall set of policy.  However, that should never ever be the only tool though it must always take precedent in phases and regions.

 

Do you think a place like say South Korea with relatively great testing/tracing etc. policies is only focused on spread control and has no other aspects in place in their strategic plan to deal with COVID?

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yep. And yet what seems obvious and simple to some, apparently isn't quite so to others.

Which is probably why you might consider just backing out of the discussion since you don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between a longer term comprehensive strategy and a short term key tactic.  Particularly when it was clear the conversation you jumped into the middle of was a discussion of the former and not the latter.

So how long before the first UPS or Fedex truck is hijacked?

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Which is probably why you might consider just backing out of the discussion since you don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between a longer term comprehensive strategy and a short term key tactic.  Particularly when it was clear the conversation you jumped into the middle of was a discussion of the former and not the latter.

So vaccines, masks, and testing aren't part of a comprehensive strategy? My bad, I didn't realize the literal keys to ending the pandemic were short-term tactics. I guess I'm just too focused on the smaller picture, I'll try to do better next time, doc.

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

So vaccines, masks, and testing aren't part of a comprehensive strategy? My bad, I didn't realize the literal keys to ending the pandemic were short-term tactics. I guess I'm just too focused on the smaller picture, I'll try to do better next time, doc.

Pathetic try.  Of course they are PART.

I'll play.  What is your take on schools?  What should have happened in the rear view mirror and what should happen going forward?  You can start from Sept 1 to make it easier.

The use of hotels for housing high risk people who dont have the means to protect themselves is an idea i think is smart.  Also having hotels vacant and ready to treat covid patients that need to be hospitalized during spikes.

Seriously we put people in parking structures...

8 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

The use of hotels for housing high risk people who dont have the means to protect themselves is an idea i think is smart.  Also having hotels vacant and ready to treat covid patients that need to be hospitalized during spikes.

Seriously we put people in parking structures...

Clustering COVID negative high-risk patients together is a big risk.  One slip up and that turns into a disaster real quick.  

2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Clustering COVID negative high-risk patients together is a big risk.  One slip up and that turns into a disaster real quick.  

Yeah i get that. It would have to been done with the highest preventative professionals and standards for sure.  But still.  Modern Hotels seem like the perfect candidates for utilization when hospitals become overwhelmed  

6 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Yeah i get that. It would have to been done with the highest preventative professionals and standards for sure.  But still.  Modern Hotels seem like the perfect candidates for utilization when hospitals become overwhelmed  

Eh honestly I think the mobile spots set up in convention centers etc are probably better.  Carpets in a active hospital setting are a big source of contamination, and I would assume the ventilation systems aren't an ideal set up.  Plus I doubt any hotel owners would be super excited to have all those miscellaneous body fluids sloshing around in their rooms, not to mention the stigma that will follow in the months afterwards of customers not wanting to stay in a "COVID ward" (regardless of if that's rational or not). 

7 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Eh honestly I think the mobile spots set up in convention centers etc are probably better.  Carpets in a active hospital setting are a big source of contamination, and I would assume the ventilation systems aren't an ideal set up.  Plus I doubt any hotel owners would be super excited to have all those miscellaneous body fluids sloshing around in their rooms, not to mention the stigma that will follow in the months afterwards of customers not wanting to stay in a "COVID ward" (regardless of if that's rational or not). 

No different than the bodily fluids they find on "clean" bed sheets under UV light.

9 minutes ago, SPIDER-MAN said:

No different than the bodily fluids they find on "clean" bed sheets under UV light.

Fair.  Still I'll take a little bit o semen on my sheets over C diff diarrhea any day.  

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Pathetic try.  Of course they are PART.

I'll play.  What is your take on schools?  What should have happened in the rear view mirror and what should happen going forward?  You can start from Sept 1 to make it easier.

Depends on the area, but generally I'm in favor of school's being open at the younger age levels. In Sept, community spread was very low, so it was a no-brainer to open them. I'm sure we're in agreement there. Where we probably aren't in agreement, is that I'm only in favor of doing so with mask wearing being mandatory for all students and staff when indoors, including classrooms.

40 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Depends on the area, but generally I'm in favor of school's being open at the younger age levels. In Sept, community spread was very low, so it was a no-brainer to open them. I'm sure we're in agreement there. Where we probably aren't in agreement, is that I'm only in favor of doing so with mask wearing being mandatory for all students and staff when indoors, including classrooms.

Good, thank you.  Some nuance.  Sorry for being such an arse on this one.  Your position has merit.  I don't deny that.  I'm just a very firm believer that we need nuance and principle when it comes to COVID.

We take masks later as promised.  In any case, I'm not against masks.

 

 

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

Eh honestly I think the mobile spots set up in convention centers etc are probably better.  Carpets in a active hospital setting are a big source of contamination, and I would assume the ventilation systems aren't an ideal set up.  Plus I doubt any hotel owners would be super excited to have all those miscellaneous body fluids sloshing around in their rooms, not to mention the stigma that will follow in the months afterwards of customers not wanting to stay in a "COVID ward" (regardless of if that's rational or not). 

Here they were setting up trailers at beach rv camping lots. And parks. 
 But i never really saw much usage of them

2 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Here they were setting up trailers at beach rv camping lots. And parks. 
 But i never really saw much usage of them

That makes sense.  Medical trailers that can be shipped in and out PRN. I get the impression there are a lot more seasonal/camping RV camps out west than there are here cause of the weather. 

1 minute ago, DEagle7 said:

That makes sense.  Medical trailers that can be shipped in and out PRN. I get the impression there are a lot more seasonal/camping RV camps out west than there are here cause of the weather. 

Yeah i suppose that makes more sense than hotels.  Hotels could/would come into play in a more serious outbreak.  
 

plenty of options are our disposal other than tents that’s for sure

The GOP is holding up relief for millions of Americans because they want to make sure corporations have blanket protection from workers who get COVID on the job

https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-mcconnell-workers-corporate-immunity-covid-19-bill-aid-pandemic-2020-12

This is a bad look and not ok. Those who claim this is a fake virus and a hoax as well not doing any virus mitigation are among the first to be vaccinated?  Elitism at its finest 

 

I mean.... I don't think much of this White House, but I would expect the White House and its staff to be fairly high up the priority list.

 

1 hour ago, Smokesdawg said:

This is a bad look and not ok. Those who claim this is a fake virus and a hoax as well not doing any virus mitigation are among the first to be vaccinated?  Elitism at its finest 

 

Look on the bright side, it may help people who are weary of the vaccine have more belief in it and they will get it too.

27 minutes ago, RPeeteRules said:

Look on the bright side, it may help people who are weary of the vaccine have more belief in it and they will get it too.

I have little faith that the Trump White House will push for vaccinations if they believe their base will view it as a cuck move

God please let Trump have a bad allergic reaction to his vaccination.